Trim Carpenter or Moulding Installer?
bambam
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I admit that I am not a master trim carpenter but I am a good journeyman installer. I had an interesting job last week though for a trim carpenter though.
He had just installed three stage crown moulding in his own house. Cabinet crown, craftsman style window facings, etc.
But he hired me to bore a deadbolt in his English Walnut door. Not mortise mind you, just bore the holes.
Says he didnt know how. His trim work was actually quite good so I cant figure out why he never learned how to bore a door.
This isnt common I hope. Oh well, $60 for 15 minutes of work is pretty good for around here.
When everthing is going your way, you’re in the wrong lane
Replies
I had a trim carpenter with "20 years experience". We had all the prehung doors delivered to the project. I asked him to start hanging the doors while I did something else. He looked at me and said "you can't hang a door without casing on it". That's when I fully understood the difference between 20 yrs experience and 1 year experience repeated twenty times.
Bruce
I wonder what he would do on a commercial jamb install into a soon to be block wall.
Oh wait, technically the jamb serves as the casing so it should be a breeze for him.
Its funny sometimes with people and their "vast experience". I would rather hire a guy who is honest about his.
Do you know someone like that? LOLWhen everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
Extremely well put...nothing erks me more than someone that says they can do it but they don't know jack, nor have they even heard of him! LOL! I hope buddy didn't get passed that sentence before being sent on his way to the other side of the door where he would undoubtedly be gently and meticulously pounding in the shims with that 28oz.
BTW , just in case you don't know Jack...
http://www.####.com/
...allrighty then...Jack Tihs ( backwards )
( http://www.whoisjack____.com/
Edited 9/27/2007 1:01 am ET by timestamps
Edited 9/27/2007 1:06 am ET by timestamps
That's when I fully understood the difference between 20 yrs experience and 1 year experience repeated twenty times.
It seems like this is the way the industry is headed. The opportunities for learning aren't there like they used to be. Not many small crews that build houses from footings to cabinets, anymore. Everything is PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION around here. Meaning huge corporate builders with low-paid sub's and non-English speaking crews, and each guy has one skill he practices over and over, until work gets slow and then he's screw*d.
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I think your right. It seems that the craft has been removed which is very sad. I always ask potential new subs about how much tract builder work they have done. If it is alot, I probably will not use them. Mainly because they cannot break beyond the level of quality associated with tract homes. I have tried hiring many painting subs who could not consistently produce nice paint jobs despite my constant reminder that I will pay them to do a great job-whatever it takes.
It seems that the work that one is introduced to early on defines the work you will probably do. If you start out with tract work, that is probably what you see the world as. At the same time, I also believe that there is a percentage of folks who really want to become craftsmen and go the extra mile to find the books, magazines, JLC, FHB and the companies to work for that will allow that to occur.
This is really ringing home right now as we are trying hire some more folks, but having no success at all.
Bruce
Today there is more to learn than ever...and less opportunity to learn in traditional ways (trade school, apprenticeship, etc.)This is the void that FHB, JLC and websites like this are attempting to fill.If you want to learn, I reckon you can always find a way to gain the the skills and info. Too many people just don't seem to want to learn. My next door neighbor is a young carpenter but seldom seems interested in my tips or techniques.Maybe he will find himself in a bind sometime and try something I told him out of desperation and finally decide I might have a few worthwhile things to say.I'm getting old enough to want to pass some trade secrets along to the next generation.P.S. I liked seeing your heavy duty shop shelves loaded and took no offense to that post in my "simple shelf" thread. People seldom post average projects here...mostly high end, wow-factor stuff. I suspect that a lot of us do work on average projects much of the time and benefit from photos and discussion of "Average Homebuilding" done well, as much FHB level projects.
Years ago, when I started in the trades, I attended union classes at night school. Although I was working as a framer, the classes covered finish carpentry, formica laminate, etc., as well as basic framing techniques. Most guys there didn't take the classes seriously, but a few of us did.
Today, there just aren't many educational opportunities for the building trades, short of just getting hired by a variety of subcontractors and learning from each one. The community colleges rarely cover construction technology, as they seem to be shifting over more to computer related careers. And the high school and community college classes that do exist are seldom in touch with the pulse of the real world jobsite requirements.
And on the other side of the coin, I've noticed the lack of eagerness to learn on the part of a lot of young guys. Not sure why this is, probably several contributing factors. One big one is that craftsmanship is not valued in our society, in any real sense (yet we idolize glamour and wealth as if these were virtues!). A tradesman skilled in a variety of areas seldom makes more money for his troubles - but does tend to find work easier.
Also, I've noticed a real lack of reading skills among my current crew. Good guys, hard workers, but unable to read for any sustained length of time. Is it any wonder the newer mags seem "dumbed-down" in comparison with 20 years ago? Awhile back I mentioned to one of my guys something that reminded me of the novel 1984 by George Orwell, and he just looked blank - said he had no idea what I was talking about! I don't think any of them read for entertainment or education. Not that reading is the only way to learn, but reading can open the mind to new ideas, feeding the desire to learn.
In a recent cabinet-making class I took at night school, a lot of the young guys really struggled. The older guys, and there were several of us, blew past the youngsters easily. It seems the younger generation hasn't mastered a lot of the motor skills and mental focus that we took for granted as kids. When I was a kid, we built model airplanes from balsa wood and tissue, modified the kit designs, designed our own planes (and kites), rebuilt bicycles from spare parts, and so on. Our creativity was our entertainment. We didn't have internet, ipods, x-box, etc. Heck, we didn't even get a TV until I was like 10 years old!
Recently a young kid was helping after school on one of our jobs. He asked what to do with the narrow strips left over from ripping on the table saw. I told him that they were trash, but they were great for building box-kites with. He just stared at me with a glazed look, and put them in the trash can. Kids don't do that kind of stuff anymore.
We live in a throwaway society, so craftsmanship doesn't have the luster it once did. Real estate is a short-term investment, flip-this-house type shows glamorize the ability to make big-bucks off unsubstantial surface glitz, and people don't keep and repair things like they once did. Cars, cameras, appliances - use 'em a few years, then get a new one.
OK, enough of my rant. Glad you liked the shop shelves, I later re-thought my post, and decided it might be taken wrong. I always admire your work posted here. Yes - I enjoy the "average" projects posted here, that stuff is our bread-and-butter. When I lived on the coast, I worked on nice homes in nice neighborhoods, and quality was the byword. Here in the Central Valley, a carpenter could (and many do) build a career on mundane work for tract-home owners just fixing stuff enough to get by. I've had to branch out and learn simple basic skills in a wider variety of trades, not using a lot of the more specialized skills I picked up working on custom homes.
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
With my science teacher background, I have a tendancy to want to share information...perhaps too much so (from the perspective of those I work around).I can't get enough education and assume others are interested in some new way I have of doing things--most of the time others aren't really interested. BT is an important outlet for me, if I am able to make a contribution here, however small, that is very satisfying.Most of us need to feel useful and helpful to others, I believe. When most of our generation began in the trades there was more respect for blue collar workers, highly skilled or not. I relocated to small town in a rural area of the Midwest. Here I don't feel like a second class citizen--put in an honest days work and you are OK.In the hip, urban coridor, of the Colorado Front Range, I felt invisible or worse in a pair of Carharts with saw dust on my shoulders. People would often treat me like an idiot there (and they were only right half the time <g>).Anyways, nice to hear that you like to see my work posted. I enjoy seeing your work as well and have appropriated several of your ideas.
Craftsmanship comes from those working in the trades because they want to. From patience and practice, of learning and mastering even the most mundane aspect of what you do. Craftsmanship comes from dedication, time and seeking instruction. Craftsmanship does not from the people who just need a job. Craftsmanship is not instant high speed access or always glamorous. Craftsmanship is not in the tools you use (good tools help) and has a cost (good tools and materials are not cheap).A craftsman like a good wine, beer or the spirit of your choice gets better with age. Has good humor and presence with what they are doing.I have come a long way from digging holes and packing lumber around. Looking ahead I still have a long and rewarding way to go.
Today, there just aren't many educational opportunities for the building trades....
And on the other side of the coin, I've noticed the lack of eagerness to learn on the part of a lot of young guys
I might agree with you that there aren't as many structured educational opportunities today. However, the internet is a literal treasure trove of information. There are also stacks of good information in books and magazines, many of which can be borrowed free of cost at neighborhood libraries.
For these reasons, I think the root of the problem is more closely described by the second statement above. That is, a person's lack of education is primarily due to their own lack of initiative and drive.
a person's lack of education is primarily due to their own lack of initiative and drive
I have to disagree. The internet, and specifically BreakTime, is indeed a great source of information, as Paul has repeatedly pointed out with his tagline. I have a great crew, hard workers, with a lot of drive and initiative to learn, but as I've stated, they're just not good readers. And quite frankly, they're not computer or internet savvy in the least. So while the internet can be an abundant source for many of us, it does them little or no good.
And I can testify, after taking a few semesters of cabinet shop at night class - internet could never supplant the hands-on atmosphere of learning while doing, while being coached by a supportive mentor (or, in the case of a few of my bosses, a slightly less than supportive mentor!).
I was privileged, early on in my career, to work with Robert Thurman, a Master Builder. Like Mike Smith, who posts here, he built homes like a perfectionist, from the drawing board to the site work to the last cabinet pull. A small crew, and he was there with his bags on, most every day.
Those jobs, and those builders, are increasingly difficult to find anymore. Like a lot of people, I wish I could go back and live that part of my life over - I'd be a sponge if I could. Of course, I learned a lot - but I had no idea how privileged I was to have such an environment to work in.
Today, the builders here in Bakersfield are largely nationwide corporate builders, and the guy with the license sits in an air-conditioned office somewhere. The superintendent is a kid (to me) under incredible pressure, the sub's are lowball production guys with largely hispanic crews (that don't speak or read English), and each guy is taught one thing which he does over and over.
I'm not saying that a guy with a burning desire to learn can't, I'm just saying the system itself is not conducive to a rounded-out education in the multitudinous facets of the construction process.
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
but as I've stated, they're just not good readers.
Again I'd ask: whose fault is that? If a person is not a good reader, don't you suppose that some practice would improve that skill?
I hear what you're saying about the system not producing well-rounded tradesmen. But if the system isn't helping you get to where you need/want to be, as an individual, you need to use your brain and find an alternate solution.
I guess we're looking at this thing from two different perspectives: I'm focusing on the individual, and you're focusing on the industry as a whole. I respect your opinion on it, though, and can see where you're right from your own perspective.
For me, reading comes as naturally as breathing
( and judging by the number of posts I have made, writing is as normal as exhaling, I suppose) But I have been pleasured to have worked around a great many guys who are at least mildly dyslexic, and some severely so.
But when it comes to hands on work in the trades, they are great - some I would put on genius level for their immediate grasp of the mechanics of building.Each of us has a primary mode or method of learning. Some textual, some visual/audio, and some kinesthetic( hands-on)
We each can and do learn in the other ways, but the primary method is the one that is most effective, speedy, productive - whatever.Categorically saying that these guys who learn with their hands need to learn to read better is not helpful to them, nor productive for the industry. We do need more trade schools and apprentice programs like Jim Blodgett is interested in doing. That will reach these guys and innoculate them with the desire and need. Then they'll find their way.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It's discussions like this one that keep me coming back to this place.
Thanks.
Ron
But I have been pleasured to have worked around a great many guys who are at least mildly dyslexic, and some severely so. But when it comes to hands on work in the trades, they are great - some I would put on genius level for their immediate grasp of the mechanics of building.
Funny you would mention this - one of the guys I used to work with was like this. He just kinda "absorbed" knowledge, I have no idea how he did it. He was a pretty good reader I think, but it seemed like he could just be around someone doing something, and the next day he could do it. I once asked him how he knew so much, and he looked puzzled, and admitted he really didn't know how, it just came to him.
He had been a world-class motocross rider, and an alcoholic, and he had a major nervous breakdown, and just decided to be a carpenter. Boom, like that. And he was one of the best I've worked with. Not a production guy by any means, but just a consummate craftsman, capable of the most beautiful work.
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I wouldn't be surprised to see him do something fast with a Rubik's cube.I have a stepson who always hated reading. He does read now when he gets a good adventure novel or true stories of hunting etc, but he'd rather break an arm than study a book when he was in school.But he competed in Odessey of the mind on a team where they built a robot that did some task, and went to nationals. He did Legos like crazy growing up, making some fantastic stuff, and he can cut a roof like nobody I have seen, and he just kind of picked it up. He solves 3D stuff faster than I can explain it, and he does those Chinese puzzle games almost instantly.But it is like he does all this intuitively without stopping to calculate any kind of analitical process for it.I work out most stuff step by step, but every now and then, my mind leaps to the answer without showing my work, like the algebra teacher used to say.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He did Legos like crazy growing up
Did you see the thread I posted in the Tavern related to that? I had a bunch of legos when I was a kid (I still like them!), and I'm convinced they really helped develop my sense of spatial perception and mechanical ability.
One time, I brought in a working model I had devised of a differential to show one of my college professors (we were doing some problems related to them at the time). I had made the model because I was trying to wrap my brain around the relative motion of all the individual gears, and there's nothing like seeing a physical model to aid in understanding. He was so impressed with the creative capabilities of legos that he went out and bought several hundred dollars' worth for his classes!
Edited 10/1/2007 3:56 am ET by Ragnar17
But I have been pleasured to have worked around a great many guys who are at least mildly dyslexic, and some severely so..... Categorically saying that these guys who learn with their hands need to learn to read better is not helpful to them
Point made. But how many people (on a statistical basis) fall into the above category? I have to assume they are the exception rather than the rule.
Also, I guess I should point out that the reading thing is only one example of many things a person can do to acquire knowledge. Knowledge is everywhere -- IF a person is willing to look for it. Hell, a person could just stand on the sidewalk at a construction site and learn a whole lot by keeping his eyes open.
Like Huck, I think you are primarily viewing this issue from an organizational perspective. Typically, I admittedly view things from an individual perspective.
Hopefully, none of my comments have been misinterpreted by anyone here; I'm not intending to insult anyone. I truly believe everyone has a unique skill set and if they apply themselves they will find their own road to success -- either with or without organizational support.
Edited 10/1/2007 3:44 am ET by Ragnar17
"But how many people (on a statistical basis) fall into the above category?"10% of the population has dyslexia in some form or another. For what it's worth, dyslexia is not merely rearranging letters as you read. The DW and I attended a meeting and got to see a simulation of how a dyslexic sees things and it was quite fascinating.TFB (Bill)
I would not be surprised if that ends up being more like 20% for folks working in the trades.BTW, did they mention whether females are less prone to that problem too?I am pretty sure it is almost universally a male thing.So between the fact that more tradespeople are men and that those who have suffered from it were more likely to be shuffled off to trade school or even drop out and go to building or farming, that is why I postulate that a far higher percentage in the trades are dyslexic to some degree. Of the men I have worked with, I would say I have observed signs and symptoms of it in a minimum of ten percent of them.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"BTW, did they mention whether females are less prone to that problem too?"Not that I recall. I'm sure the data is out there though. I can tell you that at my son's school, I know of 5 kids that are dyslexic and only one of'em is a girl. Your postulation make perfect since.
TFB (Bill)
Thanks for the info. I had no idea the rate was so high.
when i was 10 i went with my dad, A trim carpenter to help, There were no prehung doors but we cut the jamb stock and prehung them ourselfs, We had a jig for the doorknobs that i still have. we had a hand saw miter box, At 10 i trimed closets, set nails, Installed the doorknobs, swept up and hauled tools and trim for my dad and older brother. I see a lotta guys nowadays that cant do a lotta things but im amazed at the tools now,
I was lucky enough to have my dad start me off young too. I was 13 though, he wouldnt let me on the job that young.
I liked it so well that I knew what I'd be doing with my life before I ever got tho high school.When everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
Gotta love the one trick ponies.
BB
I'd guess that we have guys on this board that are very similar to the one you described, hell those guys are everywhere and to a certain extent we are those guys!
A lot of people can spout out the proper technique to do a job but have never done it.
Have you done everything, I know I havnt but I do consider myself to be a fairly comp. carpenter. I'm no framer and would have to ask a boat load of questions in order to properly frame a house, just as one example.
I do think a trim carp should be knowledgable enough to drill a hole in a door but.........
Doug
I dont think theres anyone that can do it all. IMO if they say they can, they cant do much at all.
Dont get me wrong, this was a nice guy. He did good work I just dont see Not boring his own door. This you can find out how to do online fairly easy. You can get a cheap Dewalt boring kit with bits for less than he paid me.When everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
Them one trick ponies are common down here. A trim carpenter: doors and mouldings. Personally after 10 years off and on as a trim guy, I have never had to bore for locks but once. 17 doors that we drilled for deadbolts because they weren't spec'd properly.
When somebody wants you to do something, say yes and then find out how. or say I don't know and get it explained.
bambam,
There is a vast difference between, Yea I've done that lot's of times! to I've only done that a couple times, hoe do you do it?
In 15 years of exp. I have done alot of things, from foundation to roof, but I don't consider myself an expert. To do that means I stop learning.
There are things that DougU can do that I can't, and there are things I can do that DougU can't, but to focus on those things restricts are ability to learn from each other.
Exmple: I worked for 4 differ GCs to do trim work, they all did casing around windows differently then I do. So I learned 4 new ways to do casing around windows.
Nailer
I remember quite a few years back i had a fairly large project and I needed another carpenter to do trim. This guys comes to the job and says that he's a "window" expert. . .He goes on to say that he just installs them. . . no trim, just nails them in and that's all he does (proudly)and gets $200.00 a day for doing it. I just smiled and said I'd get back to him. . .http://www.josephfusco.org
I got a call from a Highschool buddy who decided he was GC after being a mason/plasterer under his dad for a few yrs.
Seems they had a 3'x7' Butcher Block counter slab ( a pair actually) they were gonna hang as entrance doors. The problem arose when they wanted the upper and lower draw bolt latches ( whatever they are called) in the slab. They burnt up all their drills, and broke a few bits trying to bore 3' into the endgrain Maple, for the actuater rods.
I came out, looked it over..had a little chuckle. Told them to scram for an hour. I just sawed the edge off the slab, routed the dado for the rod, and glued the edge back on. Except for hitting one of thier broken bits, it worked right slick.
They stuck to plaster and stone there-after, and subbed the wood to me.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
"But he hired me to bore a deadbolt in his English Walnut door. Not mortise mind you, just bore the holes."
Could it be he didn't want to risk mucking up the English Walnut door himself?
I think you are on to something there.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Could it be he didn't want to risk mucking up the English Walnut door himself?
I'm sure thats exactly what it is but to me the mortising is the hardest part.
One wrong turn of the RotoZip and its $1800.When everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
OK, I've never used a Rotozip to bore into wood with. Or am I having a major blonde moment?
Nailer
I'm guessing Bambam was joking...at least I hope he was joking....
LOL, you are not having a blonde moment.
I dont use a RotoZip for boring holes, but I do have one with a plunge router base that I use for mortising the edge when the lockset has rounded edges. I find it is easier to handle than a full size router for that kind of work. It has a 1/4" collet for small bits so it works good for me.
When everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
I see say's the blind man, has he picked up his hammer and saw!
Nailer
I'm in the process of swapping out 12 interior doors for a GC who didn't want to be bothered...he's a plumber by trade. They elected to use masonite doors. Each one needs to be scribed, even though it's a relatively new house. Sizes range from 20" (!!) to 3'-0.
I told the GC I could do it, and meant it. He thought I should be doing it faster than I am, ( priced by door, not by time, so it shouldn't matter). I said that when it's all said and done, clients will remember that their previous doors sort of did and didn't work, ( one was actually propped open because it wouldn't work!), but they ALL work exceptionally well now, regardless of the time invovled.
I use a dedicated PC 310 for my hinges with the Bosch template set. In this case...I had to match existing hinges and strike plates. It's a lot easier in new construction! I use a dedicated Dewalt laminate trimmer and PC template for the latch mortise in the doors and the Kwikset door jig for the hole boring. I'm not sure how the Roto-zip would work, but as long as you're comfortable!
From scribing to hardward installation, it's worked out to be around 1 to 1 1/2 hour/door. I'm working by myself and have to cut and rout outside, hanging doors mostly upstairs. That's probably slow, but they all fit, and the hardware all works. So the GC shouldn't have too many concerns about time, unless he's worried about getting paid!! "The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
An hour to 1-1/2 hour per door is nothing to complain about. Especially with having to carry, and cut outside.
Your GC should be ashamed of himself.
Like you said, the final results speak for themselves.
You have a problem with chisels? It's real hard to screw up an $1,800 door doing the mortising by hand. I'm sure someone can do it, but it really takes skill!George Patterson
I'd say I know fair a bit about various facets of carpentry, I'd also say that there is a ton I don't know.
That is one reason why I love carpentry so much, no matter how much you think you know, you can always learn more, and it is never boring - Man I love carpentry! View Image View Image
No, but I do have a problem putting a semi oval lockset in a square hole. I've had more trouble trying to round it out with a knife on the edges than with a router. To me the knive has more of a tendency to slip than a skilled hand with a router.
I have a scar all the way down my left thumb from just such an incident. Since I went to a router...no more scars. I dont do enough mortising to have specialised chisels anymore but I use my routers and Rotozip often. When everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
interesting situation here-
young man on a roofing crew that I sub some work out to------talking to him yesterday--he proudly informs me that he won't be working today-he has a job interview.
" same type of work" I ask him-------
" Are you kidding Steve- I gotta get out of this physical labor stuff- I have to much experience for this. I am interviewing for a superintendents job"
I wished him the best of luck-- but he just doesn't know he has 1 year of experience repeated 8 or 10 times. He knows some BASIC roofing, Some basic siding, Some basic replacement window work--that's it. A year ago--he was accepted into the union carpentry apprentice program--quit that in less than 6 months----and now he is interviewing for a superintendants job.
He doesn't know--what he doesn't know.
BUT--aren't we all a bit like this???
have a friend that's a doctor-a pediatrician.- bet she treats the same 6 ailments-40-50 times a day.
i am the same way- the more i know about the very small area of what I do--the more suspiscious I am of anyone who claims that they do it all.
stephen
As a kid, growing up in the '40s I liked a song on the radio with a line that went..."jack of all trades,master of none, now ain't that a shame." Can't remember the rest of the song but when you hear the truth it sticks with you.
I have had young people work for me in the metalworking field that wre trained in the old school technique. Bench work for 2 years before they were allowed power toolks. and I have seen the other extreme. I don't want to learn layout, just give me a power tool to cut it up.
My boys,7, have a hard time realizing that there is a learning curve associated with any trade. To their credit, as they get older, typically about 17 yrs old they begin to see the logic in learning the basics.
More importantly is their desire and enthusiam to learn and complete a job. Instant gratification and a sense of entitlement is rampant in our soceity today.
I like to say" My kids have a disease, affluenza, the main symptom is a sense of entitlement."
Larry B
<< I am interviewing for a superintendents job"
I wished him the best of luck-- but he just doesn't know he has 1 year of experience repeated 8 or 10 times. He knows some BASIC roofing, Some basic siding, Some basic replacement window work--that's it. A year ago--he was accepted into the union carpentry apprentice program--quit that in less than 6 months----and now he is interviewing for a superintendants job. >>
Does he have good organizational and communication skills? A keen eye for detail? Scheduling is probably the hardest part of a super's job.
As long as he has good subcontractors working for him, he may be okay as a super.
That said, it never hurts having a good Quality Assurance Team in place...lol...
I do understand what you are saying though.
I can relate to a lot of what is said here regarding people with lots of experience.I started out as an architecture student. did construction to get hands on knowledge and see how it's really done in the real world. decided I liked the real world better.
don't get me wrong, architects and engineers are invaluable - just not me.I began doing all sorts of things for a gc. then I worked for a cabinet company installing higher end kitchens, then I worked as a finish carpenter for a builder. all along I came across things that I didn't know or have experience with but went through with it anyway. made some mistakes along the way. the best thing I always tried to do is surround myself by people who were as good or better than me. that way there is always something new to learn. still doing it that way. I'm thinking that another ten years and I will have a pretty decent handle on the residential construction process. but I will never stop relying on the people who know more than I do. I think anyone who comes accross not needing or wanting more knowledge and instruction is really never going to grow much. he/she may end up making more money than I do in the end due to living within their comfort zones of experience but I like to learn and be challanged. I get bored otherwise. I hope someone teaches me something new on the last day before my retirement. it will be a good day."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
...but I like to learn and be challanged. I get bored otherwise. I hope someone teaches me something new on the last day before my retirement. it will be a good day.
Well said.