I got a variance from the town zoning board last August, and the building permit application with complete and engineered building schematics was submitted in mid December. About 6 weeks ago the code enforcement officer had some concerns that I (the owner) was acting as GC, but I thought I (and with the architect’s help) had put that to rest. Certainly I have many (but not all) of my subs lined up, but no contracts signed yet (no permit!). The CEO has said that we have been a “pain in the
from the beginning”. Given how I have been hounding him for the permit, this is perhaps not a big surprise. But here’s the oddest part of this – for the past several weeks he has said he has everything he needs, and he has said he will be issuing it. But I can’t sign a contract with my foundation guy without the permit, and I have to have the foundation in by June 30 per new APA (this is upstate NY) rules (and he is well aware of this deadline – he’s the one who told me about it). If I don’t have a permit, I can’t start work. If I don’t have a permit, I can’t commit the job to the foundation guy. And if I can’t meet the June 30 deadline, then I have a new set of APA rules to abide by, and I may have to move the building 80 feet away from the lake shore.
Help!
Replies
If he's the top guy in the building department I would talk to an elected official. Sometimes you have to go over someone's head.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Sounds like you are acting as a GC. Is that a problem? You are lining up subs and pulling permits. Do you have a pickup????
I would ask (nicely) what his timeframe for issueing a permit is. Here 2 weeks to 2 months. Depending on the jurisdiction. and how many layers it has to go through. Plan check, zoning, Architectual review, etc.
Thing is if it is a small jurisdiction he may be out in the field and plan checking in his "spare" time. How busy is he? Some cities here outsource the plan check. That way they don't have a full time employee and can adjust better to the ups and downs of construction.
If I didn't get a satisfactory answer I would start up the food chain.
Edited 3/2/2009 9:53 pm ET by Scrapr
He's had the application and a full set of plans for 3 1/2 months now. He's not full time, but his review is apparently complete, given that he said several weeks ago that he would issue the permit. The only problems are 1) he hasn't issued the permit, and 2) I have a very tight schedule (foundation in by June 30!) per the APA rule change.
I'd spent the $$ for a lawyer (find one who does condos if you can) i say this because lawyers who deal with condos have jumped through more hoops than even walmart real estate lawyers...
might cost $500-1000... but I bet with a few phone calls or a person visit... you'd have a permit in hand....
i believe if he has all the documents to issue a permit... and doesn't and you suffer a loss because of it... you might need a lawyer anyway...
just my 2cents...
but from experience ... without spending money on the soft costs... you never get to spend it anywhere
P
Had been in the process of bringing an attorney on board to help me deal with contracts and liability, but this trouble is now on top of the list for him to help me with. I've been informed that his retainer letter is in the mail, so hopefully by the end of the week he'll be able to help.
Ditto what ponytl said.
Sounds like you're the "owner builder" also sounds like the CEO is being "awkward" to say the least.
Find out how to go over his head if you need to.
He is meant to be working with you, not against you. Gentle reminder might be in order!
Good luck with this.
Check this angle - in this state,there is a process whereby the issuing authority has to determine first that the application is complete. once it is, they have no more than ( I think this is the right number) ninety days to act on it one way or the other.
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"But I can't sign a contract with my foundation guy without the permit"
I don't understand why you can't sign the contract with the foundation guy with a pending permit. Permits usually are needed only when the shovels hit the sod.
It seems to me a clause added to your foundation contract like "Building permits will be in hand and posted on site before any foundations work commences" will keep the foundation guy happy.
I recently completed a house acting as my own GC too. This was a teardown. I signed the contract with the demolition guy while still in the permit process but the day he started it was there tacked to a tree.
Runnerguy
Edited 3/3/2009 6:47 am ET by runnerguy
Edited 3/3/2009 6:50 am ET by runnerguy
I think you are gonna have to be patient.
Last year I was trying to get a permit to build a house. Here the process is a little more formal as their is at least 3 city departments involved. Anyway this transportation dept guy tells me: "there is an existing driveway apron at the street that you did not show on your plot plan". I tell him "no there is not, and besides I have never in the past been required to show anything that isn't on the property I'm developing." I think what was happening was that he was looking an an aerial photograph that was outdated. Some of the curb and gutter had been recently replaced and the driveway apron removed. So he E-mails me some long city code section... Anyway, I guess he didn't like my attitude so he rejected my plot plan 4 more times for little BS reasons, all of which could have been covered on the first go around. I learned my lesson - the guy is an a-hole. :-) Sometimes these government employees forget that the public is their customer and, for example in the case of building permits, I'm paying big bucks for the service they provide. I thought monopolies were illegal in the USA? I think the local HBA should be able to sell permits too - you know - a little competition. :-)
I've got at least 5 more stories like that one...
It sounds like your problem may be with the APA rather than the BI. It might help if you hired a local lawyer to help shepherd your application. I live in Utica and read all the time about the problems with the APA.
There is a fellow, Gene Davis that lives in Lake Placid that posts on here all the time that might help you more than we can.
Just remember, lot's of snow on the ground now anyways, and you probably don't want to dig that founsation yet anyways.
Someone mentioned to get a contract signed with a pending permit, very good idea, as the foundation guy has incentive to help you, especially if he is "local".
Edited 3/3/2009 11:25 am ET by frammer52
I bet you are right APA knows they only have to stall another month or two and this guy can't build.
These "planning" organizations are usually dominated by "got miners". (as in "I 'got mine' and I don't want any more houses on the lake")
That may be, that is why he needs local help. Locals help each other>G<
The APA or Adirondek Park Agency is a very unusual agency set up by the state of NY. It should not even be there. It acts as a super building inspector with unusual rules that only benefit their wants. It should never have been created.
I lived in the world of administrative law, dealing with planning and other agencies, for around a couple decades. What I tell people is that each administrative battle produces a folder.
The right half of the folder is the agency's paperwork on the matter. It's about three inches thick and contains letters and things that render decisions on a given matter. Presumptions of [civil] law are that the agency's conclusions and decisions are always right (those scales you see held by a blindfolded lady are just propaganda).
On the left is the layman's, customer's or contractor's side of the folder. Usually, you'll find a few letters and it's about 1/8" thick.
Any higher court decision is based on the administrative record. If that's dependent on a thickness factor, the situated descirbed above isn't going to go well for the non-agency.
First, the presumptions in favor of the agency are rebuttable. This requiring bringing your side of the folder up to steam.
In Washington, the state, I use the Public Records Act [PRA] heavily and force agencies that I'm dealing with to produce their policies and procedures (which you really need for dealing with them anyway). I have not yet found an agency capable of following its own rules. This opens a can of worms and, even something having not a thing to do with the instant matter can completely change the course of an administrative action.
An example, chapter 4.92 RCW, for state agencies, and chapter 4.96 RCW for local agencies (i.e., agents acting outside the scope of their authority cannot look to the public to defray the cost of defending an action against them). As well, article 8, section 10 of the Washington Constitution can be brought into the fray (i.e., no loaning of public money for a private cause, such as prosecutor, or attorney general assistance to defend such actions)
You can demand either an administrative hearing, or an administrative appeal. This is a due process requirement. Though informal, you can enter declarations, affidavits, and exhibits (including the agencies policies and procedures) into evidence, to stack the deck against them. If the agency failed to comply with the PRA, with regard to a records request response, it can be liable for a five to one hundred dollar per day penalty, payable to you. This could also relate back to the other RCW's noted regarding agents' acts.
Sometimes, you just have to do what they do: Make it personal.
This all may sound complex, but if you consider it carefully, it's like building a house. Take it a step at a time and it isn't nearly as complicated. In short, you can fight city hall.
PS - I often have my foundation guy lined up and survey stakes set prior to getting a permit in hand. Sometimes, if the foundation guy begs me enough, I even let him start a little early. The later may not be a good idea in your case since you already have developed a "relationship" with the one inspector...