I was helping set trusses on a small single story Habitat house yesterday. This house is a simple rectangle and is built on a slab. For simplicity, lets assume there is a wall running down the middle of the building (lengthwise).
There must me a hump in the middle of the slab, because when we were setting several of the truss in that area, they would not sit on the outside plates. The truss would rock on the wall in the middle of the building. When one side of the truss was on the plate, the other was up 3/4″. Their solution was to nail down one side and then pull the other side down with a C-Clamp and nail it. I think that a section of the middle double plate should have been removed so the truss wouldn’t rock. Whats the correct solution?
You get out of life what you put into it……minus taxes.
Marv
Replies
You're 100% correct - What they did was foolish.
They might get away with it and they might not. Depends on how well they were fastened down and what happens as the lumber dries out.
Thanks Boss.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
If it were a "real" crew, building a "real" house, they wouldn't have used precut studs for the interior walls since it is unlikely that the floor will be flat. Concrete is not a perfect product, regardless of how good the crew pouring it is. They would have measured for each stud using either a laser or the ol' standby stringline.
That's one of the problems with habitat houses, you get a mob of well intentioned people with little or no knowledge, and one or two "chiefs" with some knowledge but not enough manpower to teach and manage all the others, because everyone is eager to "build build build". Stuff tends to get a little sloppy.
Mark-
Are you saying that if a "real" carpenter crew came in and built the house (or any house), they would taper the wall 3/4" to the center to account for the hump. You're living in another world.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
"Are you saying ... they would taper the wall 3/4" to the center to account for the hump."
I think that's exactly what he was saying. And that's what should have happened. Otherwise hanging drywall will be a mess.
The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between church and state, but that wall is a one directional wall; it keeps the government from running the church, but it makes sure Christian principles will always stay in government. [Thomas Jefferson, 1802]
I reckon I'm on the same world mark is. I would either taper the wall to be right or build it short and shim it in right. Fact is - I don't see many trusses, but from what I remember in another life, we would always build the interior walls after the trusses were seet and the roof on when it was a trussedd roof.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Wouldn't it be just as easy to "fix" the problem by strapping the top plate with 3/8" material so the trusses don't rock ??First we get good- then we get fast !
I take a peek at the foundation (or slab in this case) with a builder's level on a tripod before we even strike lines. Even easier than tapering walls is shimming mudsills or between plates. Get it right from the beginning and the rest of the job is cake and pie.
Theoretically, anyway! ;)
Lots of ways to deal with it, all of them righter than this Habitat way
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The more I think about this... the more the answer becomes painfully clear.
You would taper the wall because you produce a quality product.
I would take out my builder's level because I like to think that I too am providing a quality product.
But I charge for that quality and I'm sure you do too.
The sad truth is... I've worked on sites where I would have got laughed off the site for setting up my tripod and having a look see. And the GC would have been one of the ones laughing. I don't work for those type of GC's anymore because they won't pay my rates. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a market for that level of "quality". It's actually probably a much bigger market than the one I try to target. I know for a fact that many GC's would rather pay for the C-clamp solution than paying for a solution which addresses the real problem rather than just a symptom of the problem.
I struggle with the image everyone has of framers being all a-holes and elbows tearing through a house. We really don't work like that most of the time. There is definately a time and a place for that and you better know when to turn it on or you won't make any money. But there is also a time and a place to slow down and think about what you're doing. That costs money.
I can provide either and survive. You want an $8 sqft frame without letting me see the plans.... I could do that... but you'll get exactly what you pay for. I just choose not to have to work like that and hope I don't ever have to again.
I look at something like setting up to check the foundation as being - er - ah - foundational.Really, it is an investment, because the time it takes to build right from scratch is going to come back and help you out. Chasing all those mistakes and goobers all the way to the ridge will wear you out and cost more in the long run.'course the other guiys just ignore them and leave'm for the trim carps to fight, which costs somebody else even more.I'd sure hate to own a house with the trusses yanked down like that, and it would have been cheaper and easier to just replace the top plate with a 3/4" strap than to dink around with each truss.The same thinking happens in remo work, where there are plentyu of times that I can see where it is easier and cheaper to tear something out and rebuild it than to try working araound some old mess.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I like you and Diesel's thinking.
The boss I worked for said "don't worry about that" when he saw me run a string line across the foundation.Just relying on the mason getting the beam piers exact.
So, when he left, I'd run a string across anyway.:-)But for the original question....I'd do what Joe said and sawzall the studs down.
I'm pretty sure that's why it's called fine homebuilding, and not Ham and egg homebuilding. My way would be to get my outside walls strung and braced, set trusses, and frame interior walls to fit, even if that meant cutting each stud individually to fit.
It's not for everybody
Bing
Yes Marv, I am living in another world. Over here it's called "fine homebuilding". There actually are carpenters out there who make an effort to provide the end-user (homeowner) with at least some degree of quality. But then in those habitat homes I guess you get what you pay for.
Piffin I'm with you. Rather than taper a wall (labor intensive), just reduce the size of the top plate by 3/4 of an inch.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Mark
When I was living in CR I put up a Habitat house each year for several years, we always framed the outside walls, then our trusses, then did our inside walls. cut them to fit, course we were on basements so the deck was a bit closer to flat then a concrete slab.
Hell I even went around and straitened all the walls before the rock went up. I was going to hang cabs and I wanted nice walls.
Of course that's the way we did things in Iowa. :)
Doug
Framing on a slab obviously creates different challenges and I'm probably not the best person to comment on them since slabs are rare in Michigan.
I have run into a few slab situations over the years and have encountered the dreaded "hump".
The hump exposes itself during the wall straightening phase. Since we straighten all walls with our eyes, the humps jump out at us before we start setting trusses. When I notice a severe hump in a wall, I usually snap a level line at the top and plow out the excess material on the truss layout. Usually, it's only necessary to plow out one or two truss locations, but even if you had to plow out 20 truss locations, it only takes a minute at the most for each spot.
This technique only works with long wall where the level plane can be viewed over long distances. The smaller walls might be high and not noticed because there isn't enough level wall to compare to, so there's no basis of comparison. When the problem exposes itself when we're setting the trusses, it's simple matter to let the high side float and continue setting the trusses. After the trusses are set, I would push the truss aside and simply house out the few problem area. The truss then drops down to the proper level.
I would never consider setting all the trusses, then building the inside partitions, no matter how bad the slab is. If the slab was so poor that it required a radical solution, then I'd simply frame all intersecting walls with single plates, then add 22.5" blocks in between the trusses. If a complaint would be lodged (because someone was anal about wanting double plates on the interior walls) about the single plate construction, then I'd cut all studs 1.5'' short, double the plate, then add the 22.5" blocks.
Incidently, I would use the same techniques if I was framing a conventional roof without trusses.
blue
Blue - Thanks for the straight-forward advice. Makes sense to me.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
whats the worst case scenario that could happen? What more than likely will happen?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you seen my baseball?"
It's hard to say exactly what could/would happen without looking the situation over firsthand. Worst case scenario would be that the trusses got damaged somehow. But I'd say that's pretty unlikely. My concern would be that the trusses are going to decide they want to straighten back out, and they're gonna do it whether anyone likes it or not. That could mean that the ends of the trusses would lift up off the exterior walls. That would cause some pretty nasty drywall cracks. And it sure would be a pain to fix. Especially if it doesn't happen until after the HO has moved in.
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
This center wall is supposed to be non-bearing, right? If so, wouldn't it be smarter to build the bearing walls, set the trusses, and then put in the non-bearing walls? Kinda hard to cut things to fit right before the place they have to fit is there....
-- J.S.
Mary,
The section on the center wall that it high or has a hump in it string a line on the bottom of the trusses from one end to the other and then take a sawzall and cut between the bottom of the 2x4's and the shoe/sole plate if they're facenailed or use a nail puller and pull the nails if they're toenailed and bang the studs over on an angle until the top plate comes down lowering the trusses level to the line and down on both top plates.
Once the trusses are sitting down properly on the outside top plates you can either cut new studs to the proper size and install them one at a time or cut the existing ones in place and use them.