Hi all. I did a pretty thorough search of past threads and didn’t find any help for my specific question (in bold)so here goes.
I was at my buddys house last night for a cookout, and he mentioned he was having trouble with his bathtub drain. This house is circa 1940’s I think, original cast iron tub, with a p trap not a drum trap. He has galvanized piping, that’s his first problem.
The tub wont drain- he can’t snake it yet – heres why. The stopper linkage is stuck in the drain arm, and overflow arms. The stopper is gone, the linkage has also broken off from the lever. He has struggled with getting the linkage out, so he can run a snake. Also, the AC guys have t’d in to the overflow pipe to drain an attic ac unit, this probably complicated things.
The drain appears to have had a rocker type linkage, all I see in the tub drain is a threaded rod sticking out, and all I feel in the overflow is a threaded rod. This is older hardware, and both the overflow elbow and the drain shoe seem deeper than todays models.
I found a tip in past threads to de-gunk everything with baking soda and vinegar, this may help. His idea is to remove the overflow arm, and get the linkage out that way. Now that the chrome cover is removed, in looking at the overflow. It has a male threaded piece that screws thru the tub and into the overflow elbow. My question is what tool can I use to get that piece out? It appears too big for a dumbell wrench. An internal wrench would be ideal but I don’t have one that big. Advice please?
The plan is to get the linkage out, snake the drain line and possibly replace the old fasioned stopper with one of the push closed/push open ones.
Sorry for the long post, any advice is welcomed. I am fair at plumbing, but also hate to open a can of worms. However with two little ones he really needs a working tub.
Webby
Edited 9/6/2009 10:00 am ET by webby
Edited 9/6/2009 10:07 am ET by webby
Edited 9/6/2009 10:24 am ET by webby
Replies
Remove the over flow plate
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-55070/Detail
Then use some pliers to remove the linkage
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/9582?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=froog
Good luck!
Thanks for taking the time to reply but I still have questions.
The chrome overflow cover has been removed. The overflow cover is not holding the overflow pipe like in newer models. There is a brass or steel threaded piece (male thread) that screws through the overflow hole on the tub into the overflow elbow. (The chrome oveflow cover then screws onto this.) How should I get that out? Any ideas?Webby
Just my opinion but I don't think you need to remove that part you're referring to.I think you can pull everything out from aboveEverything may be "stuck" due to corrosion over the years.Also, my experience is that anytime you try to remove a machine screw or threaded part from any of these assemblies, it's going to snap and break due to the age and the liklihood it is frozen into place due to corrosion.Good luck!
Oh, ok thanks.Webby
Can you get at this from behind or below?
Do you have access below the tub to the plumbing?
I recently purchased an older home (posted in this forum) and had a tub that had the drum type trap, severely clogged. For less that $50 I replaced the whole tub drain assembly and then some with DWV pipe to a joint in the original system. Might be the easiest thing to do if you have access.
The vent piece you are referring to that no one has commented on, pics might help.
The AC drain to the tub vent piece, WTF?
check out this diagram of the internal components
http://www.rd.com/how-to-convert-a-leverstyle-bathtub-drain-to-a-liftandturn-style/article19660.html
If it has somekind of spiderweb or cross bar then take a pair of large pliers and open the handles and stick then on oposite sides of the cross bar.
Then put a large screwdriver between the handles to use to apply some torque.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Hi everyone, thanks for the info and links. I haven't started this project yet, I was just looking at preliminary stuff, but I have no pics.
Just to refresh:
There is an acess panel on the backside thankfully.
Linkage is disconnected and floating in the drain tube but wont come out..
drain basket has no cross arms. Going to be fun to remove.
Tub won't drain - old galvanized pipe with p trap.
The goal is to get the linkage out to allow him to run a snake and get the tub to drain.
The main problem with getting the linkage out is that it is not easy to grab the linkage as the stopper itself is gone, and stopper lever has become disconnected from the linkage itself. So the linkage is in the drain piping and is hard to get at you kind of have to fish for it. We will try to get the linkage out the overflow but this seems doubtful as the linkage is pretty stout about .25 inch rods in the overflow and drain.
I wish I did have pics of the ac condensate drain tied into the overflow tube. Drain runs down from the attic airhandler. So vertically it goes from top down, overflow elbow > brass draintube > plastic 1.5 inch tee (to catch the ac line)> brass drain tube > brass draintube tee x drain shoe arm x draintube to trap. I know its confusing.
What my buddy was thinking when he couldn't easily get the linkage out, was to remove the overflow arm to the plastic t, simple enough, then pull the linkage out, what stumped me and him was that the chrome lever cover, doesn't thread into the overflow elbow, there is a steel or brass retaining plate on the tub side that threads(male thread) into the overflow elbow, sandwiching the tub, then the lever cover threads into this.
My real question was has anyone seen one of these? If we have to go this route what can we turn that retainer plate off with? There isn't much width on the lip to grab with chaneloks or pipe wrench. I was thinking dumbell wrench but I think the fitting is bigger. Radiator spud key?
Advice?
Webby
Edited 9/6/2009 3:55 pm ET by webby
Edited 9/6/2009 3:56 pm ET by webby
Are there any lugs on the retaining plate? Often you can work the lugs with a cold chisel (or old screwdriver) and hammer.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Good idea, I just didn't know if there was a better way. ThanksWebby
The right wrench is of course better, but there are probably only 3 extant wrenches to fit that, and two of them are in museums.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Yeah, you are probably right. Thanks to you and everyone for the info. I am not sure when I'll be working on it, but I thought I would do a little recon now. I don't mind plumbing, but you know plumbing....
thanks again.Webby
Stick the plier handles in like Mr. Hartman said.I wonder if the stopper IS there but fully dropped into the drain assembly. Is the condensate draining through OK?TFB (Bill)
No, stopper has been gone for a while.
The ac seems to drain ok, but it is possible it has been contributing to the clog, it filters thru some old cutoff pantyhose- par for the course isn't it? lol.
Webby
Edited 9/6/2009 5:43 pm ET by webby
Dremel and some cutoff disks.From what I am hearing just demo the whole mess and replace.From inside the overflow open just cut the back side in 2. Or from the outside on the back.Ditto for the drain..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
The only issue there would be that it might not be possible to find new fittings that will mate with that tub.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I am wondering that myself, so I kind of want to tread lightly here. Tub replacement would be the logical thing to do but it is not in the budget. Hopefully we can get the linkage out and snake the sucker. Webby
The only way you are going to get the rocker linkage out is to either bend it or break it.
It has to come out to get the snake in.
The baking soda and vinegar will work some.
I've had problems getting them out before.
I had one that was fused together where it should had a linkage.
It should be made out of brass. Pretty soft stuff. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Yeah I agree. It ought to be fun. We will work on it soon. We were talking it over the other night at a cookout. It wouldn't be so bad if you could get better hold of it. But with the lever missing and the stopper gone, it will be tough. I plan to use my extra long needlenose.
We may have to take off the overflow elbow. work it out that way.Webby
I am not a require plumber. But I don't see what could be different in a tub that could cause a problem.You trim the replacement pieces to lenght so that space won't be a problem..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
The shape and placement of the overflow hole and the placement of the drain could be different.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Well, mainly I was worried that with my luck I would get some off the wall situation where the diamaters were odd sized on the drain and overflow holes on the tub, making a total retrofit harder.
We may put in a push down stopper, or a lift and turn.
But first we just need to get the tub to drain. I am just waiting on the word from my friend to start working on it.
Webby
Edited 9/7/2009 10:03 am ET by webby
There are replacement tub drains with flexible tubing (no, not plastic corrugated junk) to ease alignment of vent and drain.
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Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Cool, good to know!Webby
I had the same problem with my tub a couple of years ago.And I had a son who went a year or two without a hair cut and so the drain got slower and slowerWhat would you think about trying something like this before you do anything majorhttp://www.stacksandstacks.com/sink-overflow-and-drain-brush-removes-hair-and-residueI bought something like this at HD and it did seem to work I was thinking I paid $1.99 for it
I tried one of those and it wouldn't go down the drain. Just kept doubling up.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
This is the one that I tried and it worked perferctly for mehttp://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000507.php
Yep, that's the one I tried. Could not get it to go down the (bathroom sink) drain. Ended up just using my canister snake.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I actually have that one we may try it. It cant hurt.Webby
I wonder how well that would work on the pc of stopper that has mysteriously disappeared?
parts is pcs.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I think they work like a charmPlus these are good "stocking stuffers" for xmasHey, christmas is just around the corner
Good idea, we can try it. I don't like the idea of liquid drain openers in a bathtub, but my buddy has used a very strong one within the past month. A product we have around here called Liquid Fire, you have to give i.d. to buy it, cause I think some people use it to make meth. He said it helped for a while, but now it is draining slow again.
It is just the cast iron piping but without a way to snake it, it is tough.Webby