I am trying to finish an investment project, and have left the bathroom for last….all along I was planning to just throw vinyl floor down, and do a tub surround….I plumbed a new diverter as there wasn’t a shower prior.
I have a new maple vanity/medicine cabinet to install as well. there is a new vinyl window too.
My question–now I feel like a tub surround might look cheap and dumb in this bath, and vinyl floor too-(its a scrap from the kitchen)
What kind of tile combo works well for time/money savings? What sort of backer works best? Is there a floor tile that doesn’t require new underlayment?
or—do I stick with a tub surround? I figure 2-4 hours for that, or 12+ hours for the tile…(im slow)
Attached is a photo from my phone, Thanks for your opinion!
Replies
my thoughts on it , i would go with tile only because you have a window i have seen surrounds and after they cut out for the window and trim it out just appears bad
For the walls: 3x6 'subway' tile laid in running-bond pattern, with an accent bead (or row) about 54" up. It should be laid on CBU in the tub/shower area. The framing behind the CBU should be protected with 15# felt, or you can lay a Kerdi on top of the cement board and tile on top of that. Outside the tub/shower area, the tile can be laid on green gyprock. Do not use mastic in a bathroom anywhere. Use thinset.
2x2 mosaïc tile on the floor. Create a single row border with contrasting colour tiles about 6-8" in from the perimeter of the open part of the floor. The floor should be 1¼" ply on solid framing, and you should lay a DITRA membrane. Use thinset.
That combination will make the tile job look like you spent three times the money on it that you actually did.
Is there a floor tile that doesn't require new underlayment?
Vinyl and Linoleum do not. Any subfloor which was not built for hard tile will usually require thickening and a membrane. By using smaller floor tiles (2x2's, for example) you reduce the risk of the tiles themselves cracking if the floor flexes a little too much...but the grout will still crack. The JohnBridge Forum has an on-line floor calculator which will tell you if the framing and subfloor are sufficient for the various types of ceramic, porcelain, or natural stone tile you can lay on floors.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
t should be laid on CBU in the tub/shower area. The framing behind the CBU should be protected with 15# felt, or you can lay a Kerdi on top ---CBU, im not sure what that is...are you saying choose one of these--
1. CBU on top of felt, then thinset or
2. durock,or hardibacker, then kerdi, then thinset?
---is kerdi neccessary?What advantange--
--just asking , i usually overengineer anyway2x2 mosaïc tile on the floor. Create a single row border with contrasting colour tiles about 6-8" in from the perimeter of the open part of the floor. The floor should be 1¼" ply on solid framing, and you should lay a DITRA membrane. Use thinset.Ditra membrane---neccessary?
i have a subfloor+3/4" underlayment, floor height now is the same as hardwood- can I do ditra+durock? 1/2"That combination will make the tile job look like you spent three times the money on it that you actually did.thanks, thats the answer I was looking for, I don't mind work if the result will be work it.
It takes an awfull lot of work to put in a cheap tile surround and get a decent job. I put in a cheap one from Home Depot and after looking at it a few days ,tore it out and put in a little more expensive one, and after a few more days ripped it out too because both looked like snot.
I would go with tile. If you have'nt done any tile work get a good book and follow the directions.
Home depot sells a tile saw for less than a hundred that will do anything you need to do.
I like one foot square tiles on the walls in rental stuff because you have less grout lines to get messed up. You should get good slick tiles that are easy to keep clean.
I know, even new construction ones seem cheap looking...
I have done a shower before, and own a tile saw, just looking for a method other than durock-- i don't care what you say, it doesn't cut easy, with a scribe, or a saw. this house will be for sale, so i want it to look "nice"
Instead of durock use GP DensShield. It comes in 1/4" thick for floors, 1/2 and 5/8 for walls. It works like drywall and weighs half of cement board.
Anthony
---CBU, im not sure what that is...
CBU stands for Cementitious Backer Underlayment. Commonly known as cement board; often referred to by one of its trade names ("Durock"¯ is the most common in this area).
Be careful: CBU's come in several thicknesses. The ¼"-thick stuff is very dangerous to use if you need to rely on the screws to hold it in place: the screws will eventually pull through and your whole tile job then falls off the wall. I always use ½". Cut it with a 4" segmented-edge diamond blade in a small angle grinder. (Do this outside if at all possible.)
are you saying choose one of these--1. CBU on top of felt, then thinset or2. durock,or hardibacker, then kerdi, then thinset?
Yes. You have a choice. If you're (1) already down to the framing, you can save some $$ by shingling felt horizontally (full double coverage, like a roof) on the studs and then screwing the ½" CBU over that. OTOH, if (2) for some reason you just want to lay the CBU on top of what's already there, you need to cover it with a waterproof membrane. Kerdi is good for that.
---is kerdi neccessary?What advantange--
Some waterproofing between the tile surface and the framing is necessary. Kerdi is one of the best if you are in situation #2 above. Remember that grout and CBU will not degrade from being water soaked...but they are not waterproof in the sense that a raincoat is, and will transmit moisture/water to the framing. That will create rot over the long term.
--just asking , i usually overengineer anyway
Good policy. We're on the same wavelength there.
Ditra membrane---neccessary?The Ditra is a combination uncoupler and waterproofing membrane. It looks like an orange plastic waffle, an eighth of an inch thick, with a white fleece on the bottom side. It waterproofs just like Kerdi does, and also prevents cracks due to framing/subfloor expansion and stops joints in the substrate from telegraphing through. If you want the whole 9 yards on Ditra, go to the Schluter website or ask your tile supplier for a copy of their demonstration DVD. It's a very good product.
One thing to remember: when you use Ditra you need to calculate about three times the usual amount of thinset.
i have a subfloor+3/4" underlayment, floor height now is the same as hardwood- can I do ditra+durock? 1/2"
What is the ¾" underlayment made of? Assuming your subfloor is ¾" plywood on good, solid framing, you would need a minimum of ½" additional plywood to meet the L/360 requirements for most ordinary tile jobs. If the existing underlayment matches or exceeds the stiffness of that, it would be okay.
If you use Ditra, you put it on top of everything else, then thinset the tile to it.
BTW--a lot of big-box 'materials advisors' (LOL) and even some tile-store people have started recommending a new 'super mastic' for use in wet areas. Do not believe them. Thinset is more work but will not fail and has a very long track record to back it up. This new crap has only been on the market for a few years. The 'guarantee' is worthless (because their installation requirements always leave some room for the company to claim you didn't install it properly) and the manufacturers have no real way of knowing how long or how much moisture the stuff can stand. They are going on the basis of computer modeling and 'accelerated' testing conditions which do not match the real world. A tile job should last thirty, forty, or fifty years if done right.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Dinosaur,
thanks for all the info,
ill report on the project when it is done.
CBU, i caught that acronym driving into town--
thats obvious. ever used hardibacker?I guess thats the real wuestion for this thread.
hardibacker
durock
deni shieldwhich wins?nordy
Nordy,
densshield is GREAT for walls, no need for VB (vapor barrier) as the stipled face is water-proof , much better than a CBU, which REQUIRES a VB behind it. Attach with deck type screws and then seal ALL fastener heads, inside corners and butt joints with silicone. Hardibacker works great for floors, use 1/2" and set it in thinset, this will give a nice sturdy base for the tile. As stated previously use thin-set for all your setting, no mastic!
Geoff
Ditra on the floors and Kerdi on the walls. You can avoid the backerboard entirely and have a waterproof setup. The Kerdi wil let you do some nice waterproofing around the window, if you are careful with the details.
Billy
I won't recommend something I haven't used personally, so I can only tell you about Durock. Some of the other guys can give you their opinion on the other possibilities.
Good luck. Take pics (but not with your phone, LOL).Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
The John Bridge Forum Deflectorator is pretty cool. You can easily see how bad some framing will deflect in extreme make believe low ball subcontractor remodeling work.
Like the others said, tile it. Modifying a tub surround around that window won't look as good. I've tried both the cheap stick on surrounds and better 3-piece ones that Sterling sells, and only because the customers insisted on them. Those jobs were more trouble than they were worth.
I am imagining all the work fitting a cheap plastic surround, and then hating it,
-thanks
Agree with the others on the tile. It will make a world of difference in the end. Surrounds scream cheap.
On the last tile job I did, I used Dens Shield for the walls. Easy to work with and no additional vapor barrier.