I have a maple that needs to come down as it is in danger of falling on the house. It is 3′ in diameter and the trunk section is pretty straight for 15′-20′. My cousin has a jig for a chainsaw (I forget what it’s called) but the setup is such that you can run it across a fallen log to get boards of an even thickness. He has used it to make cedar planks for siding a fishing house and oak planks he intends to use for a floor.
I understand sufficient time is needed to dry the planks (6, 8 or 12 months even). I was thinking of cutting the boards with the intent to use them as flooring for a few rooms (ironically the rooms this tree is in danger of falling on). I know it is a maple but I do not know what type and I’m not sure if certain types of maple do not make good candidates for flooring. For what it’s worth, I am in SW CT.
What I was thinking is to cut the boards, let them dry, square the edges and plane them smooth. Does anyone have experience with doing this? I figure it might be a lot more complicated so I’m looking for someone to set me straight. Perhaps the first thing I need to do is understand what type of maple it is?
Replies
<I bow head in rememberance of 'Mr Mojo' who departed us and this world a while back>
OK - ya you can do this, but -
#1. This is a tree next to a house - the odds of finding metal in it is very high - the odds of finding multible metal is very high - so milling can get expensive -
other than that, hard maple/soft maple - both will make floors - soft is better for like bedrooms or more 'civilized' spaces rather than mudroom floors that get a lot of wear and tear -
drying is key - you need a flat base, and the planks need to be stickered meticulously - straps to tighten or weight on top the stack is a good idea -
if you cut while the sap is down (after it gets cold), drying is already started, and there is less chance of 'sticker stain' - plan to finish the air dry in conditioned space for the last couple of months - total air drying time for 1" boards is roughly a year, tho if you can stack/sticker them in your heated living room, 6 months or so would be enough -
What I was thinking is to cut the boards, let them dry, square the edges and plane them smooth. Does anyone have experience with doing this?
ya - it sounds real straighforward when typed out like that, remember it's a job to be done in stages over the course of a year - you'll move and handle those boards several times in that time -
I do this kinda stuff regularly, just don't underestimate the size of the job and the need for carefull strategy -
biggest deal is the metal that's in almost all yard trees, IMO -
good luck -
I've got a goodly number of roughcut maple that has been stickered and dryed for a number of years now, have planed a few to see what's what and they came out ok.
Thinking of a small upstairs area of like one 6' by 10' area I'd like to do in the maple as a matter of principle 'tree from land now floor'.
In a previous thread discussion over excessive maple shrinkage across grain was discussed.
After mulling over the discussion narrow widths seem the way and now I'm investigating what techniques for a home operation like this might be advisable for the what 2 1/2"? wide flooring boards?
T7G, face screwed, splines, shiplap...?
Seeing the max 10ft length of the floor in question, all will be full lengths with no end seams.
Thanks
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Edited 10/11/2006 1:31 pm ET by rez
Did this once myself. Rigged up an old shaper with T&G bits, DW and I ran it through, nailed it down traditional style...turned out pretty good.
I'm thinking of using the router attachment on the EZguide except I'll need another 4 ft section of rail.
But then again I was wanting a 4ft'er for ease of short cuts so maybe I should just go order it.
be then be spending more money on tools again.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Be sure to use a carbide bit. We just kept sharpening a steel bit, and ended up with some less than crisp joints...all the more important with maple, which tends to move quite a bit with the seasons.
One thing I didn't mention before, and maybe it's just my imagination, but when you mill flooring (or trim or even furniture) out of trees that grew right in the vicinity of your house, you get more than just the "I did it myself" pleasure:
Providing the boards are carefully air-dried, you end up with wood that is inherently MORE stable than wood that came from who-knows-where, because it GREW UP in the same micro climate that your house is now sitting in.
Maybe just pure BS, but it does make sense, somehow.
View Image
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
In a previous thread discussion over excessive maple shrinkage across grain was discussed.
After mulling over the discussion narrow widths seem the way and now I'm investigating what techniques for a home operation like this might be advisable for the what 2 1/2"? wide flooring boards?
rez - I don't like narrow floor boards, but that's a personal thing -
I think you can use wide(r) boards, if you prefer - it's a matter of conditioning - prepare the stock and stack/sticker it in the space where it will be installed for a few weeks in the winter (heating season) -
I've layed several floors out of SYP 1X6 ship lapped - and that's pretty easy to manufacture -
we did a three floors 28293.18 out of walnut - cherry - oak, random 3-4-5" strips, T&G, done on a Williams&Hussey - very nice - I also did a similar hickory floor with material prepared by the same fellow where after installation the edge of the groove turned up enough to make a rough floor - I'm going to have to sand it this winter, I was hoping sanding wouldn't be necessary - if it had been 'v-grooved', it probably would have worked -
people have been talking about 'sticker stain' and it's an issue, but, if you use dried stickers, something light like poplar or cottonwood, cut your wood when the sap is down, then keep air moving over the stack for the first few weeks, you'll get by without moving stacks/restacking - getting one nice stack is hard enough, restacking 2-3 times just doesn't get done around here -
"there's enough for everyone"
Thanks,
I'd also prefer wider boards but thought with maple it was problematic. What might be the best maximum width for shiplap? Face screw with oblong holes?
be a novice alright
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
The most recent issue of American Woodworker magazine has a article on how to build a Solar Kiln for drying lumber. They Claim it will "Dry most wood species in 6 weeks or less"
I can't get a link to the story....I may be able to scan it, if you would like to see it.
I'd also prefer wider boards but thought with maple it was problematic.
meh - you want a gym floor? I wouldn't know how to act if my floors didn't open and close a bit seasonally -
What might be the best maximum width for shiplap? Face screw with oblong holes?
8" max is pretty safe - a mix of 8" and 6" works - get some 'roseheads' from Tremont nail, drill holes and face nail, 2 nails per board into the joist -
when you mill, make the heart side up, that'll help any cupping raise the center, instead of the edges -
"there's enough for everyone"
How wide would the laps be and dead center of the board's thickness giving egual top and bottom?
Should there be v notches on the backsides and if so how deep?
Thanks
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
well, I make mine 67/128ths, but that's just me - make the underlap 61/128ths so you can draw the top lap up tight on the face -
no time for v notches - winters comin' -
"there's enough for everyone"
waa! waa!
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
T7G, face screwed, splines, shiplap...?
Biscuited? Just a thought.
Jason
One more thing. If you air dry it be sure to seal the end grain with something like Anchorseal.https://www.uccoatings.com/
forget the chainsaw mill. too slow. bring me the logs, ill cut em on my bandsaw mill. less waste, and much straighter. I live in NE ct. jeffysan
I have a little experience turning trees into boards.Years ago I removed our old enlish walnut orchard trees as they were well past producing nuts. After the tears for cutting down those wonderful 80 year old trees, the logs were loaded on a flatbed truck and taken to my nieghbor who had a foley-belsaw mill that we built several years before.Lost alot of wood to the kerf of the saw blade but the lumber became my kitchen cabinets a couple of years later.the loading was alot of heavy lifting. Then we moved to our present place and have now used a bandsaw mill(wood miser)to mill doug fir which became rafters and studs and recently milled up a huge madrone tree.After advice from this site, those boards are still stacked,stickered and strapped tight with nylon strapping. every once and awhile I tighten the straps. the bandsaw is much better. Less waste,smaller or hardly no saw marks on the boards and way less heavy lifting!! Those boards are waiting for me to finish my new Insulated Concrete form garage/shop/ barn to become perhaps new kitchen cabs. So now I have a few questions for a new post.
fine homebuilding had an article on properly cutting, stickering, and stacking raw lumber from a year or two ago....you could do a search. if i remember right, you're in for a lot longer drying time than you suggested, i think it was a year per inch of thickness. also, i recently had a friend (i'm in nj) who had a similar situation and was able to find a guy in our area with a "portable sawmill". cost him about $250 to cut up a very large oak. he found him in the back of a woodworking mag.
good luck, please let us know how this turns out.
Kudos to you for even wanting to try this. But don't think that you will end up saving any money, especially if you count your labor.
Like the other respondor, I've been messing around with this sort of thing for years, and have learned to not underestimate the amount of work and probably new tools and probably new skills that you will aquire a long the way.
Start by getting the tree down. That alone will tell you alot about the soundness of the wood. Any kind of maple is much more prone to rot...even in the trunk...than say, oak, or walnut.
Rip into a chunk with your chain saw and slab some out, just to see how solid and sound it is...if it passes the test, figure out how to get the big, heavy thing to a saw.
Lot more steps before it turns into a floor.
The pay off? When visitors comment on the floor...you can say.."Yep, made it myself from a tree that was growing right over there"
The chainsaw jigs are O.K. on smaller trees. But on really big noes, they take a heck of a long time. Do you have a chainsaw with a bar long enough to make the cuts?
You also lose a heck of a lot of lumber to the saw kerf with a chainsaw. For a tree this big, I'd hire someone with a bandsaw mill.
As Doud said - Don't underestimate the time involved.
A: The pick up truck with the gun rack and the bumper sticker saying, "Guns don't kill people. I do."
Thanks for all the replies. This definitely is not about saving money.
It seems worth the cost if I can have a mill do the initial cutting for me. I'll see what I can find.
I didn't think that a bigger tree would be harder than a smaller one. This makes a lot of sense.
I'll do some more research here and let folks know what I come up with.
Thank you.
I've had two friends who have milled trees that have located, one way or the other.One had the log transported by truck to a local mill to be cut, then got the raw wood back and stacked and stickered it.The other found a person with a portable saw mill, and they did it right there in the yard.I think the portable saw mill route is simplier.
From a "Great Moments" a couple of years ago: There's metal init summers
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The jig you are talking about is probably called an Alaskan mill. Great for cutting big, roughsawn beams, but for flooring you'll waste almost as much material from saw kerfs as you will get in flooring. If it were me I'd ask around for a guy with a portable bandsaw mill. Way less waste, flatter boards and LOTS faster. If you do get serious about the chainsaw approach I'd recommend talking to your local saw shop about a ripping chain.
Also, for a 3' dia. butt you're going to need a pretty big bar on your saw.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
I did just what you're proposing but with cherry. I took my logs to a local band saw mill. I started two inches thick (mistake). I didn't know what I was eventually going to use them for and bigger is better. I ended up having to resaw them on my table saw (mistake) but I did get it done.
Ripped them 5 inches wide. Planed them on DeWalt portable planer and then put T&G on a Jessem router table with a big PC router. Actually worked out well. Certainly not a way to save time, but as others have pointed out, it really means something to me.
I'll post pictures when my daughter comes home.
If you want 3/4 inch flooring then have the mill give you 1 1/4 inch to start at least to account for shrinkage while drying and then planing.
Picture
I use 3/4" dowels for stickers. This way I can roll the pile back and forth to prevent the sticker stains. Which is actually mold. Maple has a high sugar content so moving the pile often is a must.
You might want to look for someone to kiln dry the stock for you. Costs a little money but it's done fast. No worries about sticker stains.
So how deep will the sticker stains permeate into the roughcut lumber to make it a concern?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
In some of the boards I have the stains went in 1/8"-3/16".
Not alot but makes for more planing. If you have a 22" Powermatic planer who cares about stains. The planer will take a 1/4" a pass out of most boards.
The 3/4" dowels made moving the pile easier, I just push it with my foot a few inches and it's done.
Man, 3/16s is pretty deep. No wonder so much talk about tannin creep.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Mojo
Just for inspiration, here's a cabinet job I completed last year out of a maple tree removed from the Lake Forest Academy in Illinois. You can get some beautiful wood, but it's a lot of work. This was all milled with a bandsaw mill. Like others have said, it's a ton of work. I stickered and restickered it several times, and these boards are HEAVY. Final result was well worth it. BTW, I pulled about 10 pounds of nails, spikes, deer stand steps, etc... out of the logs as they were being milled.
Jeff
Edited 10/12/2006 12:25 am ET by JeffHeath
Let's try the sticker stack with a slightly more manageable file size. Sorry to the dial up folks.
Jeff
Holy cow the finished cabinet is beautiful. I found a guy with a portable bandsaw who is going to come. I have some ash trees as well which all have a fungus so I might use those for floor and get some maple boards for a bookcase. I don't think it will be close to what you've done. I appreciate all the comments on the amount of work. This project is for bragging rights so I'll give it a shot and take my time.
Thanks!
while it is hard to argue with the beautiful project that is the result of your efforts, your stickering/stacking job could be better -
very important to have the sticks directly on top of each other - tho the angle of the picture makes analysis a little ambiguous, it appears that the stickers wander around a bit -
but like I said - beautiful project, thanks for the pictures -
"there's enough for everyone"
David
Without a doubt, I agree with you entirely. These maple logs were my first attempt at milling. If you look closely, you'll also notice that some of the stickers are red oak, which I know now is a MAJOR no-no. The tannic acid stains the wood pretty well. Since then, I've learned alot about milling, and have about 8000 board feet of logs I milled myself in my wood shed. My main business is concrete, but my secondary business, and passion in life, is woodworking (next to my family, of course.)
I now stack all the stickers vertically. Here's a pic of some cherry logs I milled 2 years ago, with a much better example of how to do it correctly.
Jeff
I'm in Lee, MA, last spring I found a guy in south Berkshire County with an awesome portable mill. He sawed up a maple and a couple of cherry logs, nothing bigger than 16" or so, I was the helper. It's amazing how heavy fresh cut hardwood is. It is a lot of work, but I really wanted to make some lumber instead of firewood. As others have mentioned, the chain saw idea will create a lot of waste,not only from the large kerf, but from the rough and uneven cut. The wood has been stickered and covered since April and is already down around 20% . By spring I'll be ready to bring it inside to finish drying.
We did hit a couple of small screws in one log, nothing substantial, and the boards have a fair amount of knots but I should be able to get some 6' or 7' clear lengths, not bad.
This guy is a cattle farmer and does the sawing on the side, but he has a serious machine. E-mail me and I'll send you his#. Good luck.
I did that.
White Oak - wood mizer mill, ($400 for 22 trees worth - 1-1/2 days of sawing - a bargain!) 8 years later I still have Oak boards everywhere.
6 months air dry
A month or two at the planing mills kiln - they then ran everything through their moulder @ .20/lft iirc.
There was a coolness factor involved, but the floor was still relatively inexpensive, and the wider random width boards (full length of the room) made the kitchen look great.