Hey folks, been a while since I’ve been around.
I’m up to big stuff here though. I’ve got some pump jacks (alumapole) on the way and I’m going to stage so I can do siding on the house. Some parts of it are 25′ from the ground so in order not to bounce off the sidewalk or driveway, I’d like to tie off while I’m up on this scaffolding. I started computing the force a normal guy like me (175 lbs with tool belt) would exert on whatever connection point I use to the structure and it’s unreal. A 2 meter fall produces about a 5,000 lb load on whatever you are connected to. That is basically like parking your truck on whatever you are connected to.
How do you guys handle this? What do you tie off too that can take that kind of force? My initial thought was to put a closed eye bolt with lag screw connection into the bottom of my LVL ridge beam that extends 2′ from the sidewall I’m working on. However, the pullout strength of a 5/8″ lag is about 2,000 lbs (3″ embedment) and the failure of the lag itself is 3,500 lbs. And 5/8″ is darn big eye bolt.
Any thoughts?
MERC.
Replies
Tie to the house - I have a lot of mountain gear I use - today I tied a climbers rope to the center truss, threaded it out the gap in the OSB tied a clove hitch and clipped it to my harness. Ascenders or a prussik knot and you can move. But the rope is in the way a lot...
Maybe there is a beam or rafter you could expose - or something on the far side of the house - not your truck. I'd be nervous about tying to lag screws or anything nailed on.
Around here I have never seen anyone else in a harness, but thats how I'll be doing it-3 kids and a wife are counting on me.
The thing that helps a guy is the stretch in the arresting rope and the "give" in a person's body so instead of coming to a hault as if on the end of a chain it's a bit more gradual.
While probably not meeting osha guidlines, there is a lot of great information in some of the rock climbing books. "Freedom of the Hills" is an interesting read for mountaineers or arm-chair mountaineers and has a section on ropes, knots, harnesses, and self-arrest principles that can be used anywhere beit rock or roof.
I've settled on a basic setup consisting of the following: 50 meter dynamic rope, lightweight belt harness, 1" tubular webbing tied so harness reacts like a "chest harness" (much harder to fall out of when upside down--see how to in the book above), steel self-locking caribeeners, various thicknesses of cord (rope) for tying a prusik loop (attaches you to the main rope, is moved along rope by hand and self-locks if you fall), and a few lengths of 1" tubular webbing loops to attach your main rope to various things that, hopefully, will hold your weight if you fall.
I've been on a crew that had special v-shaped metal straps that are nailed on to the roof ridge with a dozen 16d nails, but that setup is not very practical unless you are up there putting on the roof.
On scaffolding I'll run a loop of the 1" webbing around the scaffolding and clip the main rope onto it. From there I'll try to find a second solid object, which isn't always possible. The nice thing about webbing is how thin it is so on new construction I've pulled it through and around framing, trusses, etc. and either attached it to something solid on the other side or to a 2x so it couldn't be pulled back through. On occation there isn't anything handly on the house so I'll through the rope over the house and attach to my truck if need be--simply pad the rope as best you can on sharp edges. The good news is that it's often pretty easy to come up with multiple connections. The bad news is that, as we all know, wood can be unpredictable. Buy lots of 1" tubular webbing and don't be shy about using it.
I've used a portable hydrolic ram to jackup, tweak and break all sorts of old roof framing. On some jobs we've had a decent ledger to hang the ram on while forcing new rafters into place. It is amazing (scarry) how much pressure a handful of long tico nails and a 2x12 hanger can handle before it rips out. I've since started carrying a heavy hanger and a large metal ring in case there isn't anything else but the side of a building to attach to. The ring sits in the hanger and prevents the webbing from getting cut. There is probably a specially made do-dad that does the same thing, but it's probably high $.
Check out http://wesspur.com/ or any of the other tree climbing/arborist retailers for safety gear.
He're what I'd suggest: Buy a good NEW 10mm rope and take good care of it (try the "killer deals" at http://www.northernmountain.com). Use a "figure 8" to attach the end of your main rope to a locking caribeaner. Buy 20' of new 1" tubular webbing from a climbing store. Use the "water knot" when making the 1" tubing into loops. Get 3 steel caribeaners that have a self-locking mechanism. Learn how to make a chest loop with 1" tubular webbing so if a fall happens upside down you don't fall out of the harness. Learn to use a prusik knot or buy an assender that accomplishes the same thing. Get a good book and practice. Be careful of where you will swing to if a fall does occur--more than one person survived the fall and was killed by swinging into something hard. If you don't feel confident trying this stuff out on your own you could always go to an indoor climbing gym and have an instructor go through the basics and you'll be able to experience "falling" off the wall with very similar equipment.
It seems that every year, at least out west, the house plans are getting taller and the building sites are steeper and over look some pretty rugged country. For someone like me who doesn't like heights, at times the safety gear has really made a difference in both safety and productivity.
Good luck
Thanks for the response guys. I too have 3 kids and a wife that need me alive, at least for a while longer!
At any rate, I think I should be able to loop some tubular webbing over the LVL ridge and come up with something reasonable that way. I've bought a good vest style harness, and I'm using a shock-absorbing lanyard. I just need to come up with some reasonable connections to the framing and to my harness, then I should be ok. I also went upto 20" walkboards so I'm not right on the edge all the time.
I have a friend who is a professional tree climber so I will give him a call and see what thoughts he has.
MERC.
Merc--How ya been?You right--haven't been around in a while--glad your back--Too stay?I climbed in the military and civilian rock faces and the give in the line and the fact that you are flexible cuts the net spike force on your line subtantualy--The web slings and hardware and rope are all up to the job as well as a constant--what I believe you should be most concerned with is you anchor point--this is the one varible that is totally in your control--fortunatly there are more achor products out now , even with out going to a climbing store to find them--Are you sure it isn't three wives and a kid? Hardy-har-harNice to see you around ,Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
"I'm using a shock-absorbing lanyard. I just need to come up with some reasonable connections to the framing and to my harness,..."
DJMerc, welcome back. Please humour me as I drone on about these vital issues. My comments come from an extensive background in vertical sports.
Lanyard: The shock absorbing lanyard is a great idea. It reduces the forces transmitted via the belay chain to your body, and to your anchor point. Climbing stores sell these, as do industrial safety dealers. As a rule, climbing gear is lighter and not as bulky. It is usually not as abrasion resistant as the industrial stuff, but it's also been tested to high standards. OSHA does not recognize climbing gear though, even the UIAA tested stuff.
Ascenders: As to mechanical ascenders (mentioned by other posters here), I would avoid any model manufactured for rock climbing. Under shock loading many of these will fail (they're made to ascend, not to belay) by fracturing their metal frames. They will also cut through the rope sheath. Instead, learn how to tie and use Prussik knots on smaller diameter (6 or 7mm) perlon cord. The Prussik is a constrictor knot. It clinches the main rope very tightly, is very secure, and is easily adjusted as you move about.
Anchor or main rope: 10mm climbing ropes are fine, but a 10.5mm or an 11mm perlon rope is thicker, absorbs more fall energy - thereby transmitting less of it to your body - and is more abrasion resistant, and less likely to fail over sharp edges. Be careful that the smaller dia. anchor ropes are only compatible with Prussik knots tied from much too thin cord.
Carabiners: Modern climbing biners are made from alloys, not steel. OSHA and Fire Dept. biners are made from steel (painfully heavy). I would use a thick UIAA rated alloy biner, with locking gate.
Remember, as one poster said, that fall generated forces reach well into the 1000s of pounds. Every link in your system has to withstand such acute yet brief forces.
It is also a well documented fact that the less main rope you have paid out, the less rope mass there is to absorb the energy of your fall. Therefore, the extra energy is transmitted violently to your body. However, if you have too much main rope paid out, there is more rope to stretch, which increase the likelyhood of your hitting the ground anyways - usually breaking your ankles or legs in the process. Poster here mentioned the book 'Freedom of the Hills': look up Fall Factor to understand more about this phenomena.
Note: UIAA is the International Union of Alpinist Associations, a climber-recognized gear certification body.
Getting basic instruction in belaying, anchoring and knot tieing is a great idea. Good luck.http://costofwar.com/
Buy a good quality rope grab to use with your rope,lanyard and harness.
This will eliminate the need for knot tying and will move more freely and be totally secure.
Gemtor,Miller,Komet are all good names.
we used pump jacks to side a gable end that had a ridge height of 36'. we didn't tie off at all except to the roof. it was totally safe....i'm young and dumb but i have a kid now and might not do that again.the legs of the jacks should be supporting the load fine.you might want a 2x tied off to the house midway up so you're not swaying around.
RTC
Check out http://www.versafety.com for fall gear. They have that V-shaped nail on thing that someone else mentioned, about $15 IIRC.
I used eye bolts secured through the roof to angle irons bolted to the rafters -- machine threads, not lags. I also worked with the line tight or very nearly tight all the time, so I never could have gone more than maybe a foot and a half. I used 3/4" line and a rope grab in the always-grabbing mode. I also carried a second rope grab and a strap, so I could inch-worm my way up or down and self-rescue if I ever fell. It worked when I tested it, but I never actually needed to do that. I started with a light weight Miller harness, but went back and bought a much more comfortable Yates. The Miller I gave to a dominatrix, who uses it for S&M now. ;-)
-- J.S.
Thanks for all the good advice.
Here's the setup I ended up with. I'm tied into a 2x6 that is nailed off to the first rafter inside the gable rafter (and obviously nailed to the rake rafter). I got a 1" hole very near the top of the 2x6 and I got some 4,000 lb tubular webbing through it (great suggestion). Then I got my lanyard attached to that. So it feels pretty secure. I know the scaffolding isn't totally OSHA compliant, but I feel good enough on it. The only thing that gives me pause is that 2x6 is sort of "on it's side" since it's on a 12 pitch roof. I could go a little higher and get over the ridge (double LVL), but that would take some jacking around up there though. Of course, I'm over a large set of masonry steps so there isn't a lot of room for calculation errors.
When I move down to work on the lower planks, I'll get some more lines attached to some of those lower lookout blocks so I can keep the line pretty short.
Thanks a bunch! -Rob
dj..... nice setup..
when i'm doing siding we set our alum-a-pole safety nets
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the net fastens to the bottom of the workbench and the bottom of the lower pic..
if you fall into the net you cannot fall any further..
it has an added bonus of becomming a storeroom for siding material and lots of other thingsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike. I had looked at the safety net and decided I would wait to see how I felt up there. I do like the idea though. I wish it came in some more subtle color than bright yellow.
MERC.