*
Hi:
I’ve got an old (~50 yr) attached carport on my house. It has a 20’X20′ footprint. On one side, there are three bolts through the top plate tying it into a brick archway coming off the house. It’s supported with 4″ steel columns on three of the four corners (4X4 treated wood post in the last corner) with an additional 4″ wood post in the middle of one side, and another 4″ steel column in the middle of the other side. Still with me?
I don’t know how deep the steel columns are buried, and I don’t know what they’re set in. It’s been holding up without shifting for half a century, and the roof is in good shape, so I’m not going to sweat it too much. I suspect they’re probably buried about 4′ deep. The structure’s corner is ON the property line, so it’s in my interest to maintain it, otherwise setback requirements will prevent me from replacing it. Here’s my plan/question:
I want to frame in the back wall of the carport for two reasons. One is to cut sound transmission from the front of the property to the backyard, and the other is to stiffen up the structure. The back end of this carport is essentially a roof held up by a post at either end. I’d like to dig down between the two posts to ~2′ depth, lay a pad of concrete and build up two courses of cinder blocks. (I’m just north of Seattle, and the frost line isn’t really an issue here.) I’ll frame the wall on top of that. My question is: How can I most easily tie into the steel posts on the corners? Does someone make a slick post/frame tie? Would it be easier to box the post with wood and work with that?
Thanks for any expertise/advice you’re willing to offer,
-t
Replies
*
I've been seeing a display at the HD lately for a new line of tools. In one of the displays is a percussion gun that apparently fires studs into/onto steel (judging by the tens of nails & screws now attached to a steel plate).
If indeed they offer a screw-ended stud, you'd basically be performing a percussion weld to the steel post. You'd then attach your wooden framing materials to the fasteners, after drilling out for the studs.
Another method might be one I used when creating a cedar closet in my basement. One side of a doorway ended up right against a steel lally column - the question was similar: how to attached the door frame to the column?
I took my 2x4 framing member, and attached it to the post using band anchors - the ones used to connect PVC pipe together. Some of these bands are rather long, or you can join two together, as I did. I used at least three bands to attach the 2x4 to the post; reefing the screws tight, then I expoxied the screws to keep them from loosening. The remainder of the wall keeps the 2x4 in line.
hope this helps,
-TJ
*Here is one way.
*TAB,See above disclaimer...How about drilling three or four 1/2" holes through the column, top to bottom and securing your new wall with some galvanized bolts with washers.Scott in West Seattle
*Hi guys:Thanks for the posts. I was toying with something like the band clamp idea, TJ, but I just can't convince myself it would be that kosher. My big problem here is that I'm (much) more a cabinetmaker than a carpenter and it just seems a bit less tidy then what I like... My concern about screwing into the column is that it will certainly compromise the structural integrity. I'm just not clear on how much compromising is acceptable here? Can I drill a half dozen holes all in a line on one side of a steel column without rendering it worthless? What about two holes? Seems a little like pig wrestling as well with regards to keeping everything square! I suppose if I predrill the stud, toe nail it in nice and tight to the column and then shoot the self tapping screws I could probably keep things pretty well aligned.Anything I'm missing here? Any other ideas?Scott - your message appeared while I was posting, but basically it brings up the same question with respect to column integrity after drilling...Thanks,-t
*TAB,This is coming from a non-professional, so if I'm wrong I'm sure one of the pro's will correct me, slap me around some, tar, feather, flame, stick bamboo shoots under my finger nails, string me up by my ankles and then stone me in the public square, but...Drilling a few 1/2" holes ins a 4" steel column will not impair the structural strength of the column. If your wall is 8' high or so I don't think you would need any more than three or 4 bolts to do the job.S
*Consider using a self-drilling fastener. A header- tek to be exact. It is a 1/4" selfdrilling fastener designed to attach framing to steel. It will drill its own hole thru the wood and then into the steel and fasten the wood in one operation. The teks come in various lengths for different thickness of wood, and with different lengths of drill tips to drill thicker or thinner metal. We use them all the time.A standard electric scru-gun will drive them. Ron.
*Tek screws ... that's what my hot link in the post above references. Sorry if it wasn't clear that it was 'hot.' That web site allows you to order screws and all related materials on-line if you can't find them locally.Jeff
*Hi guys:Thanks again for the advice. I like the TEK screw approach, it looks straightforward and secure, and I'll probably limit it to 4 holes of 1/4" each in my lally (lolly?) column. By the way Jeff, I did check out the link when you posted it, (it was clear it was 'hot'), I just didn't catch on to the fact that the TEK head let you drill wood and tap metal at the same time. Thanks for spelling it out, Ron.By the way, given that I'll only need to drill in about 8 of these (prob. the 1/4" X 2"), and given that I need another single use power tool burning a hole in my wallet like I need another hole burned in my head... Is drilling these screws so much of a torque load that it'll burn out a typical 9 amp drill? I'll rent if I have to...-t
*I would try using your drill. The tek screws are designed to be used in a driver of up to 2500 rpm. We use drills in a pinch. Sometimes when installing these a person will run into hard spots in the iron. The teks do not handle this well. The drill points burn up and then no drilling. We turn the teks slowly when we encounter this condition and as a general rule the teks will drill right thru the hard spots. Use your drill and you should get along fine.Ron.
*build your new wall in between the corners. don't attach them.done.
*
Hi:
I've got an old (~50 yr) attached carport on my house. It has a 20'X20' footprint. On one side, there are three bolts through the top plate tying it into a brick archway coming off the house. It's supported with 4" steel columns on three of the four corners (4X4 treated wood post in the last corner) with an additional 4" wood post in the middle of one side, and another 4" steel column in the middle of the other side. Still with me?
I don't know how deep the steel columns are buried, and I don't know what they're set in. It's been holding up without shifting for half a century, and the roof is in good shape, so I'm not going to sweat it too much. I suspect they're probably buried about 4' deep. The structure's corner is ON the property line, so it's in my interest to maintain it, otherwise setback requirements will prevent me from replacing it. Here's my plan/question:
I want to frame in the back wall of the carport for two reasons. One is to cut sound transmission from the front of the property to the backyard, and the other is to stiffen up the structure. The back end of this carport is essentially a roof held up by a post at either end. I'd like to dig down between the two posts to ~2' depth, lay a pad of concrete and build up two courses of cinder blocks. (I'm just north of Seattle, and the frost line isn't really an issue here.) I'll frame the wall on top of that. My question is: How can I most easily tie into the steel posts on the corners? Does someone make a slick post/frame tie? Would it be easier to box the post with wood and work with that?
Thanks for any expertise/advice you're willing to offer,
-t