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Where can I find written specs for application of
Cedar siding over Tyvek? Thank
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All I can say is "Oh My God"!!!
I just covered my 3000 sq/ft house in Tyvek and I'm getting ready to cover it in cedar, oil primer and stained white.
Now what do I do?????
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Sounds like you're going in the right direction, assuming that priming with oil means backpriming, too. Search this site using rain screen as your key words. I believe there's been previous discussion. I'm building my own rain screen simply by nailing cheap, cheap, cheap mason's lath atop the felt and studs. Siding nails to the lath and doesn't contact the felt. An additional benfit is that a capillary break is established, so the back of the siding should stay drier, and I hope, the paint will stay put longer. In the words of Arthur Dent, "Don't panic"
andy
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How about covering over the existing Tyvek with felt paper before installing the back primed cedar?
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Did you give any thought to using "cedar breather" -- the mesh designed for cedar shingle roofing? We have a lot of unpleasant insect that like little spaces to colonize, wasps in particular, so I hesitate to make any easy homes for them.
*Call 1-800-44TYVEK and make sure you have their exact specs for installing cedar over Tyvek. Then find out what their warrenty is and decide if it'll be less expensive to follow their instructions or not. The other sites George gives ought to be a good place to dredge up info...
*I'd wonder about a reaction from the asphaultic VOCs in the felt with the Tyvek.
*And, anyway, what is the point of the "protective" Tyvek if you have to go to such lengths to protect it?Tyvek + felt might be too much of a vapor retarder for some buildings?Still curious about Cedar Breather.
*Everybody keeps saying felt will last "forever," but a few years ago, when I took the phony paneling off the wall of my previously-enclosed garage, so I could put in insulation and DW, the felt under stucco was coming off in big, dried-out flakes. House was built in '72, wall faces east. Was there some felt-like cheapo substitute back then that might have been used?Excuse the tangent.Ji
*Stucco may be your biggest problem...It's a lobster trap for moisture...It can always get in but it has a rough time exitting...If you want to have a heart attack have someone with one of those thouusand dollar moisture meters test your whole house...If he finds water, wait till ys see the rot!near the stream,j
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I am having yellow cedar hand split shingles installed on the side walls of my new house. Does anyone know the best way to install this type of cedar shingle and what is the best UV inhibitor to use? I want to keep the wood in it's natural state as long as possible. Also what should be used as the underlayment, tyvek or felt? Does the same problem exist with cedar shingles and tyvek as it does with cedar clapboards? Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
*What is the difference between Tyvek and Typar?, Will I still need to backprime the cedar? I wanted to use a stain and not a paint on it.If I do have to backprime what should I use?
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Lea, I got a big laugh from that. It's funny because it makes sense! DH
*LarryIf Yellow Cedar is anything like Red Cedar, you can forget about keeping it in it's natural state for any appreciable length of time, it will weather with sunlight and precipitation. If you choose to apply an semi transparent oil finish, a good one will cost $$ because so much will soak in, and last maybe 3 years before a reapplication will be necessary.Your handsplits can be applied over tarpaper directly onto ply or osb with a 1.25" wood shingle nail (galv ardox box nail) Leave a gap between each shingle (1/4"+/-) The shingles are not prone to the same problems as claps, but should be oriented to cup from the middle, because hand splits do like to cup!-pm
*Dana, do a search on the material compositions through buildingonline.com or abuildnet.com. Neither last forever unprotected, although both seem to be the new choice in "white trash" siding.As to finishing your siding with stain, make a dip-tank set up, and dip the entire lenght of siding in the stain, rack to drip, and set out to dry. Fasten with stainless nails to eliminate the zinc/cedar reaction.
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All is not lost. I found a company on the internet (can't remember their name) that sells a product--in my poor descriptive abilities--that resembles something like those green scrubby things for pots and pans. It's attached to the sidewall over the wrap and allows air to circulate under the siding.
I have doubted the claims of Tyvek for years. It sounds too much like Gortex, which doesn't work either.
Jack Eddy at the Cedar Bureau (www.cedarbureau.com) recommends 15# felt paper.
Sometimes this new-fangled stuff aint't the answer.
good luck
John
*Glidden is very proud of their products. Consumer Reports recently did a study and found their products to hold up longer due to more UV inhibitors.I still wonder about all these concerns about cedar. We use it cause the bugs don't like it and it won't rot.A house is not a Steinway piano. What's wrong with the cedar weathering? Just plan on the right shade.I can no longer find the original fir clapboards for my 100 year old house, so I removed (very carefully!) the siding from the front and replaced it with Nova Scotia White Cedar. It's lovely stuff: pretty and easy to work with. It will weather to a gentle, silver-gray.Look at Cape Cod houses: been there for a couple of hundred years with the same shingles and looks great.If you go with Western Red you'll get that dark brown, redish-black look. I don't know what the yellow will do.Good luck,John
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I have a related Tyvek question: I will be pulling down the plaster and tile in the kitchen of my 72 yr old home near Philadelphia. I will be applying insulation (either InsulSafe IV or an R15 blanket from CertainTeed). Would it be advisable to apply Tyvek from the **inside** against the sheathing, insulate, then close it up with drywall? Note: the exterior was originally stucco but is now aluminum siding (for now).
*TomCheck the archives. . .on Breaktime you're talking to people who mostly think that Tyvek/housewrap b is a joke and/or a devious plot,even when installed in the so called i recommended manner. . . installing it the way you propose would be even more of a joke.The reason why they sell it in such big rolls is because it's supposed to be installed with as few seams/breaks as possible.-pm
*Tom, I can't see a good reason to do that... attack the outside when you can, and do a housewrap then.(I noted the "for now" in your post.)
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We recently opened a wall on a newer construction house (8 +/- years old) to install a bay window. The Tyvek was in the words of Dave Shaw, "Old Bedsheets"... as the cedar siding was applied directly to the housewrap. Non-reactive firring strips must be applied when using Tyvek with Cedar Siding.
I'd estimate a 20 year maximum lifespan for a Tyvek housewrap in direct contact with Cedar Clapboard, based upon the amount of degradation present.
*Solution: Don't use Tyvek?I would make a claim against the company on this one. I assume they didn't warn customers, and it's pretty predictable the stuff would be used in combination with cedar siding...
*You've got it, George. I'm wondering, though if the siding was backprimed? Or was the tyvek in touch with "virgin" cedar or just stained cedar (back stained, but not primed)?If it was just back stained and not back primed, was the stain a solid-stain or transparent.Sorry for the many Q's, just trying to build up the old database.Thanks, Mongo
*George,This is a very interesting and timely subject for me as that exact detail is spec'd for my next project. I have always prefered felt paper to Tyvek anyway, and am going to bring this up to the Architect. My question is can you be sure that the damage was not attributable to U.V. degradation prior to the installation of the cedar siding. I've seen new work sit for months before the siding was installed the damage to the Tyvek I suspect wouldn't show itself right away.Any thoughts here?Richard Max
*I've never really been sold on Tyvek anyway.Ed. Williams
*When you pull the old cedar claps off 100 year old houses with felt paper, the siding is still good as well as the wall sheathing. The felt usually needs to be replaced though...Screw Tyvek.Dan
*Replacement after just 100 years?!? Outrageous.The thick felt on our 60 y.o. house is in fine shape. But they don't make the stuff like they used to so who knows. I noticed a nearby project was using some sort of black Certainteed product as a wrap?
*Here's the deal... (Sorry Ross, had ta use it).The cedar clapboards were raw wood in contact with the Tyvek. Only layers in contact with the cedar were effected. (Where layers lapped, only the outermost was degraded.) Where the Anderson nailing fins covered, the Tyvek was like new.I agree, the felt papered houses seem to hold up for 60+ years, as long as the siding and roof systems are maintained. As to using the thinner new felts, I'd go #30 where you'd have used 15 pound felt years ago, #60 (if you can find it) where you would have used 30 pound felt.Guess we'll have to see how the " New! " housewraps hold up? Any volunteers?
*George,What type of Tyvek are we discussing? We get two types here, a white " housewrap" and a green one side foil the other reflective wrap. They seem to be made of different material??RegardsMark
*Regarding backpriming the cedar (stain vs. primer), what do you recommend to use as a primer? I'm installing cedar clapboards (over felt) this summer, and I'll be using a transparent or semitransparent stain (probably Cabot). I gather from Mongo that backpriming with the Cabot is not the preferred method (even with felt?), but I'd rather not use something white, since it always drips over the edge and I don't want to sand the drips off the edges.
*I believe tyvek will deteriorate in sun light . It has a warning on the seal before you unroll it. I think its like three months before its bad.
*Mighty (?) white. I've taken a few photos, and if they're sharp enough to convert, I'll post them.
*JLC did an article about housewraps, written by Paul Fisette, 6 months or so back. Cedar, as well as OSB, doug fir and latex paint have chemicals called surfactants in them. As do detergents. Surfactants break down the water repellency of all housewraps, including felt paper. You see the same thing as the surfactants in laundry detergent break down the water repellency of the dirt in your carpenter's pants, helping them to come clean in the wash. Felt paper is apparently thick enough to stand the test of time. Of the hi-tech housewraps in JLCs test, I think Tyvek performed the best. Back priming helps, but I'd use oil-based primer because it lacks the surfactants found in latex. Or build a rain screen wall, keeping the cedar from contacting the housewrap. I'm unsure how to keep the housewrap from contacting OSB sheathing. And BTW, if you have vinyl siding over housewrap, think twice before pressure washing it with a detergent solution. Andy
*Where can I find written specs for application of Cedar siding over Tyvek? Thank
*Try: http://www.wwpa.org for a cedar industry specification publication.Call DuPont at 800-44-TYVEK and ask, or try a building industry search engine like: buildingonline.com.