Well, yestreday I had some free time to start digging into the failed seam between the shower-tub’s tiled walls and the tub itself. I discovered something about how bad the failed grout got. The seam where the shower-head wall and the adjacent wall meet the grout has also failed for about a foot starting from the bottom. No wonder water was so easily able to get in there.
Now, I think I have a bigger problem since its not just the tub-shower wall seam. Should I just tear all of this out, install new concrete-board, and re-tile everything? BTW, I have never done tile work before, but I suppose I can’t really make much more of a mess than what I already have on my hands–or can I?
Replies
In your case, the tile work won't be difficult ... it's the waterproofing that takes a little attention. New concretre board alone won't solve your problem ... you need a waterproofing membrane. It's something you can do. Go get a book "Setting Tile" by Michael Byrne. HD and Lowes sometimes have it, or you can get it off the Taunton site, or Amazon. It goes from very basic to advanced with lots of pictures.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Ed, thanks for the reply. I am curious, as always, about alternatives. I happened to come across SwanStone's Retrofit Shower bottom and surround wall kits. These are intended to place a standard shower-tub assembly of create a large shower. I noticed on their website SR/FR-3260L and the corresponding SK326072 SKUs, but I am getting limited Google results--and what result I get are not cheap.
Do you know of another brand that might make this kind of retrofit kit to convert a conventional 32x60 shower-tub with something similar to what SwanStone is offering?
It's surprising that preformed large shower bases are not more readily available. Always a special order usually with long wait time.
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
Edited 6/21/2005 12:32 pm ET by razzman
I don't have any experience with that stuff. You might talk with a local cultured marble shop. the one here does counters, sinks, tubs, and tub/shower surrounds. The surrounds are sheets of cultured marble, so you would only have seams at the corners. However, you would still want to check the studs to be sure they are not decayed, and I would install a membrane anyway.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
What you have is "normal", sad to say. If you have to you can do a patch job that will hold up for a year or so, but the right solution is to tear it all out.
Tile is something that a reasonably competent DIYer can do a pretty good job with. Just take your time, study, ask questions.
Go to http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php Its a forum dedicated to tile work. There is a host of threads about using the Schleuter Ditra system for water proofing showers. Good books to order too.
I got a ton of good advice from the folks over there.
I'm afraid of tiling. :)
In fact, a good friend of mine is just as afraid and we both are putting off this askpect of home repair. We both want the other to be the guinea pig. If I tile, I'm not going with that crappy 4" tile that will tak a million of them to install, but rather some 16"-20" tile for the wham-bam thank you mam drill.
Whatever happened to enjoying one's new home?
FWIW, you'll have more difficulty with the larger tile like that than a smaller 4" or 6" tile. The larger tiles will acccentuate any slight flaws in the wall and will take more effort to make sure they dont slip (wall tile I'm assuming).
Read up on it. Its not too bad once you try it.
Heck, my wife does most of the tiling in our house. If she can do it, anyone can. (But don't tell her I said that!)Smaller tile (rougly 6x6" or less) are generally easier, since you have less difficulty with cuts and don't have to worry as much about slight surface irregularities. As usual, most of the work is in the prep (if you do it right), so the size of the tile makes little difference in how fast you can get a job done (at least until you get down to mosaic size).
I'm afraid of tiling. :)
As others have said, tiling is not so scary. Also, smaller tiles are definitely better--you just need a bunch more of the neat little spacers.
Now, nippers, versus scoring machine, versus tile saw--that's different. Each is "best" in its own way.
The hardest part about wall tiling, starting out is A, putting the alignment lines on there where you can see them, and B, not tiling too big an area.
Besides, ask anybody (or at least me<g>), it's not the tiling, it's the grouting that's a pain.
Worst come to worst, hiring out a tile job can sometimes not be so painful as a person might imagine.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Tile is not that bad . I have used my Gizmo self leveling laser to put the start lines on my walls and that way they don't get covered with thinset. Use thinset not mastic . It seems easier to just open a can and glue tile . but it aint . The thinset kinda sucks the tile to the wall and holds it . mastic tends to slide a little till it sets and it sticks to everything , Messy stinky mastic . Do read and follow the directions on the bag of thinset and you will be very happy.
Well, before I go setting the heart and soul (and beer) into action I'd like to exhaust all alternatives. I found this from a further Google search and think it has to be less expensive than the darn SwanStone:
Mustee (http://www.mustee.com) seems to make PVC-based (I think) walls and bottoms, including 32-34" x 60" for retrofitting. According to their website HD (and Cheek & Dover) in my 30518 zipcode are resellers. I guess I'll be seeking a cost from them.
Anyone got any opinions on this?
Absolutely nothing wrong with these in general. (Don't know about this brand in particular.) The type/quality of plastic used will affect lifetime, of course, before scratching/staining/crazing becomes a problem, but 10-20 years of life in a residental setting is probably easy to achieve.Of course, attention must be paid to the joint between the panels and the tub. Probably taking out the bottom row of tile and doing something there is a good idea. At the very least, be sure that no drywall or cementboard is resting right on the tub surface -- leave a gap so that water doesn't wick in. If the tub has a turned-up edge behind the wall that may be all that's needed (other than normal caulking).
If that is the brand that I am thinking of they have some good models. But they also have some stuff that makes saran wrap look thick.
Ok, some big-box research turned up something interesting. While Mustee says HD is a reseller, HD says they are not. They even called a wholesale distributor they use and that distributor doesn't carry Mustee. But this was the bad news, and now for some good news.
Home Depot sells three-piece complete kits for 60" showers made from what appears to be PVC. This includes the shower bottom and shower walls. Cost: $389.95! To further this situation, they also had a tear-off pad from ASB (American Shower & Bath) for tub and shower walls. ASB (http://www.asbcorp.com) will sell and direct ship walls.
But this brings up another aspect. If I look to just repair the damage I need to 100% verify where that leak came from. I'm not 100% and I am less confident than I previously was. I learned this morning that all built-in tubs have 'lips' along the three walled sides.
If this is the case then a failed group-seam where the tiled wall meets the tub couldn't have afforded a water leak unless there is a hole at the two corners, and one of those corners has that 12-14" of vertical grout that failed in the tile wall. But, since I am going to have to tear out that 4" tile walls for repair I am wondering if I should still yank the tup for further inspection of damage.
What concerns me is that while I saved myself drywall ceiling damage downstairs, the subfloors in my home are OSB, which is not tolerant to water at all. Time to break out the sledge hammer.
"Ok, some big-box research turned up something interesting. While Mustee says HD is a reseller, HD says they are not. They even called a wholesale distributor they use and that distributor doesn't carry Mustee."I think that varies by market (region).They have Mustee here in KC.
> I learned this morning that all built-in tubs have 'lips' along the
> three walled sides.Not entirely true. Most sheet steel tubs have lips (nailing flanges) along the walled sides, though these may not be reliably seamed at the corners. Some cast iron tubs have similar lips, some have just a slight upward curl near the edges, and some older ones are completely flat on the edges.Also, keep in mind that once water gets into the tile backer (which may well just be green board in this case), it can soak through and wick its way down the studs, getting around any lip on the tub.Of course, there are other ways that tubs can leak. The other common point of leakage is the overflow (when the tub is used as a tub). The gasket behind the overflow opening is generally a cheap foam rubber that turns to dust in 15-20 years. When used as a shower, water can splash back into the openings around shower head or controls.
Bill, Dan, good info. I guess I will find out once I remove the existing tile and whatever is behind it. BTW, ASB Corp just responded and said they do not sell or ship direct to consumers and can only be ordered through dealers such as Home Depot.
Since Home Depot cannot order and the manufacturer refuses to sell I guess 'that' solution is out. Strange. Bill, I do not think it is a regional-control for Musteee, because I typed in my zipcode and asked for dealers within 25 (or 50) miles. Their website listed the three nearest Home Depots and a Dover & Cheek all near me.
Seems like a lot of confusion between retailers, wholesalers, and manufacturers. Makes me wonder how anything actually reaches the consumer market, hehe.
Maybee they are no longer handling that line.I know that they (or Lowes, but fairly sure that it was HD) had them March 2003 or their abouts.
BTW, see if you can find get ahold of the manager of the plumbing** section, try early weekdays. Then ask when then the vendor rep is going to be there. Then talk with the vendor rep.To a large extend the vendor reps "run" the stores. They do a lot of the stocking and inventory control.Last year when I went was doing a bathroom for a friend of mine we went to HD on a Sunday to get it. Had a hard time finding any one and when we did we got Dumb and Dumber. Could not find what we wanted until we pointed it out on a top shelf. Then found they where all defective and had no idea when they would get more or what other stores had.She know a guy that is an HD vendor. He does not handle that line. But knows how the stores work. I meet him the next time he worked at that store and logged onto the HD computers. Explained why they had all fo the defective units. Entered the stock number of what I wanted
and found what other stores that had it. Called a nearby store with it and had then pull a unit to verify that it was complete and had it waiting for me to pickup.** At least at the local HD the showers and tubs are at plumbing ilses, but in the Bath and Kitchen at Lowes. But I suspect that they are a B&K item and the B&K area they have the large rack of catalogs of stuff that they can order. BTW, you might want to check out Sterling. They have some lines in the home horror stores, but many more at the plumbing suply houses.
i always laugh everytime i walk past mustees display at hd.if i was making bathroom products the last name i would give my products would be mustee,no wait a minute moldy would be worse. check them out at hd ,not a real high end product ,i'd go a 1 pc shower first. larry hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Turns out the HD guy was wrong. I called HD after the email reply from ASB and learned they, HD, order it and it arrives there. ASB's Emphasis walls are $230.77 plus tax delivered to the store. This is their five-piece wall surround with shelving and the faux 4" high-gloss white tile pattern.
Once I inspect behind the existing tile I will know whether or not to go with the same tub and use ASB's walls, or just get a complete retro/conversion kit for $389.95. I know that no matter what I will be doing plumbing--no one's that lucky. lol