Of the readership I was just wondering how many of you are union carpenters. I happen to be one, but anyone who swings a hammer is my brother. For you guys that aren’t what’s the general going rate, is there health coverage, retirement, ect.? Of the nonunion guys that I’ve met there aren’t many perks, is that just my area? Just curious and thought that I could conduct an informal survey. If you have any questions for me, shoot.
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OHT OH, Here we go again. :-)
What local are you recruiting for?
Hey paolo, I'm personally not a union carpenter though I think the guys do great work. I'm in commercial real estate during the days..swinging hammers by night/weekend. Here in Boston, MA the union does alot of commercial work such as steel studs, concrete forms, big warehouse to condo conversions and the like. They also have finish crews that trim out the courthouses(my father in law is on one), schools, State House, and some of the downtown hotels' millwork. As far as pay + benefits go if you are working for someone else the union guys do much better than the guys working for non-union outfits, I'm talking form setter vs. form setter, framer vs. framer, not private lead carpenter vs. union grunt level guy, position/experience dictate the pay level both union and open shop. What kind of work do you do? What location?
-Ray
last time I was an employee ...
carps got $15/hr ...
leads got $18/hr ...
heard they were raising both by $2 ...
buy-in health insurance ... 401K available ... one wk vacation 1st year ...
2 weeks after 2 or 3 years .... and so on.
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Oh! no! a Steelers fan! The union is $26.20 commercial and around $15.67 residential here in.............Cleveland! Good luck this season.
I'm a bit surprised ...
not sure what the union rates are here ... I'd imagine close to the same as U ...
I would have expected to see them a bit higher.
That's pretty much nonunion rates. How big a bite do the union fee's take?
or is that after all is deducted?
and ... is the work year round?
just curious about the other side of the fence.
I'm anti-carp union ... for myself ... but my Dad was a Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen Union member for about 40 yrs ... and then a RR Union Rep after retirement .. then a RR Union Lobbiest ... then a RR Union Consultant ....
all the time a Steelers fan and a Republican activist!
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Non union company.
Carps are making more than the union guys, for the most part (I do a profit sharing program... with profit calculated each quarter).
Health, 401k, dental, vision, disability (long term), educational assistance, EAP program (helps with drug free policy compliance), Flex medical account, credit union, and they get to work with a great boss :)
Turnover rate has picked up lately... I actually lost one (not including transient seasonal types). I highly dislike training new guys when I am so happy with the ones I have. BTW, the one I lost is now working on his own, and I still use him as a sub every once in a while.
Since I have owned the company, we have tried hard to make things fair for the employees. The profit sharing plan was the best move I ever made. The guys have really taken ownership in their work since we put this in place.... not that they didn't do a good job before... but this really got them REALLY thinking about their work and the impact of all of the "intangibles" that they never considered before.
Also have a quarterly safety bonus. No accidents, $.50 on the hour for the following quarter's pay. No accidents two periods in a row... $1.00 on the hour... which is the max. Any accidents, the bonus is eliminated for the next quarter... then starts all over again.
Two big safety meetings a year (8 hrs dedicated to in-depth safety training) and a small safety briefing each month. One of the big safety meetings is followed by a Christmas party for the guys and their families.
My guys have to provide their own tools (except large tools), and must provide their own transportation to the job-site (although anything over 20 miles is given mileage). Most of my guys take advantage of the credit union to withhold a "reserve fund" for tools.... an idea that I HIGHLY encourage them to do... as I don't do advances, loans etc for anything.
Vacation... two weeks, with only one able to be taken during the summer. We have a mandatory off time (two weeks) at Christmas, unpaid. We do pay for Christmas Day, Thanksgiving, New Year's Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and 4th of July... and if we work on any of those days... it is at 1 1/2 rate plus holiday pay. New Year's and Christmas pay is included in their Christmas bonus check.
VERY nice..........when do I start??
EricEvery once in a while, something goes right!
I was a member of the Allied Craftworkers International #5 as a plasterer doing historic and ornate work. Being a member of a union has its pluses and minuses, the bennies can't be beat and depending on the type of work, you get to work on a lot of really interesting projects. The problem for me was that I could only make so much $$ and more often than not the job was about the union this, and the union that, instead about the job itself or the craft. I got to know some great people though.
Why do you want to know? thinking of getting out of the union?
Brother Paolo, I'm a retired union carpenter out of Philadelphia PA, local #8
I started my apprenticeship in 1961 and retired in 1997. Best thing I ever did was join the union.
mike
Thought that I might kill five birds with one stone. Lenny, not recruiting for anyone, if you are not interested then you are not wanted. Rich, you sound like a good owner, it's rare thing, nonunion or union. As for your manpower problems I think that is one of the benefits for the owners of union companies. They can pull experienced guys from the hall, and when the job is over there's problem in letting them go. Ray, I live in Cleveland, Ohio and am a member of Local 21. I have done some framing both residential and commercial, but really more trim than anything else. I have been on huge jobs( the new federal building downtown), to having built my mother's kitchen cabinets. Jer, I understand your complaints but those kind of people work the nonunion jobs too. I had a very romantic view of carpentry before I got started, and it has faded a bit. I was inspired through my training as an apprentice and now when I don't get it on the job I get it from side work, or working on my own house. I also get it from reading up on the trade.... Finehomebuilding. Last but not least, Hube, I am thinking of maybe getting out and going back to graduate school. I love carpentry, but work can be inconsistent, so it can be hard to budget yourself and it's stressful being out of work. Though in these times I know it's not only the blue collar that's being affected, thanks G.W. But that's for another discussion. Also I am wiped, much of the time when I get home, and I would like to have some energy for the kids that I may one day have. Oh! I forgot about this one. Mike, congratulations on your retirement you deserve it! So thank you all for your responses, and happy Labor Day to all of you, both my union and nonunion brothers.
paulo, since you're in cleve, check out this thread and attend if you have a chance.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=46480.1
And here's a link to the JLC Live site for further info. Well worth the attendance if you're so close.
http://www.jlclive.com/Columbus/index.asp
1138 ToledoRemodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Union in Chicago.
Working in South Loop Prarie district.
Can see 9 tower cranes from where I am working.
Man,this place is going balls out!
All Union.
Heard next contract asking for $10.00 over 3yrs.
Union has been good for me and my family.
Got any room in your basement, I have my bags packed. Things seem a bit better there than here. Is it true that you guys make more in residential than commercial?
I've heard nothing but good things about you guys. As an apprentice the cabinetmaking instructor (Al Kuzman) was always talking up your program and how impressed he was with it. I am glad things are going so well for you out there, hope it stays that way.
What's the scale there, Scotty?
$33.32/hr
Union carpenter here. Local 634 salem, illinois. Joined 5 yrs ago, it has been five great years for me. The pay is 26.33 per hour plus a benifit package that is 9.50 or so o top of that. The only thing I pay from my check tothe union is 1.85 an hour in checkoffs and my 20.00 per month dues. Our current contract with 4 yrs remaining on it has a raise of 1.50 per year. Last year we got .75 on the check the rest went to benifits.
On a different note. I am a "company man" have the truck and the tools. We hire hall guys when needed and do ocassionaly get a bad one. Also I kow work is slow here and many guys are looking for work. I am a lucky one who get a min 40hrs per week for a well establised and respected contractor. Yes, occasionaly I must fudge the "rules" a bit but I do work yr round.An inch to short. That's the story of my life !
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
I have several buddies in the union. Most seem to be happy with evrything that comes with, but some seem to be laid off all the time.
The problem around here is that there is no residential union, which as we know, keeps the labor rates for non union lower. I think I would have gone union 10 yrs ago if there had been houses to build, and not hospitals or schools.
I think the union guys get 23 or 24 an hour on the check, with bennies on top of that. I am starting a new job in 4 weeks as a finish carp with a high end builder to be started at 16 an hour, some bennies. I know this is on the high end of our local pay structure. Usually, an average for non union would be around 12 to 14 for a basic carp, most tools provided.
Self employed rates are usually around 22 to 28 an hour.
I know the union in my area has three seperate scales. One is the commercial scale that I work at, even when we build high end homes or build a new one in our sub division. (which is the only time we build homes) One of the other scales is for residential contractors who build more than "x" amount of dollars worth of homes per year, they are paid about 21.00 plus bennies. Then the guys who work for small residential contractors make about 16.00 plus bennies.
I broke in building high end additions and homes. When I came to this contractor he put me in the union and had me doing finish work in schools and hospitals. He decided to build a few homes, so I told him, " I have benn spoiled by you for three years at the commercial rate, I am not working for residential scale, I can make more on unemployment!" I know he charges regular rates if you want us and our reputation, so he has to pay the regular rates. But the guys who work only our residential side make a lot less than I do even though we are all "brothers" I know some don't like the pay diff of 26.33 versus 16.25 but at least they are working and not starving.An inch to short. That's the story of my life !
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
That's good pay, with the benefits on top. I make $35 an hour working for a local, non-union contractor. No benefits.
Hey, thanks for the invite, and the jlc looks real interesting.
I don't know if I can make it, I just started with a new company and I am the low man on the totem pole. I need to try to avoid the ax with the winter slow down coming. Well, we'll see what happens. Thanks again.
Hey, if you can, see you there.
Be in Cleve tomorrow nite at Jacobs, hoping for another slugfest. You get any Browns tickets, need someone, call me. You been in the forest city long?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Born and raised, a couple years here and there. On the topic of sports, I am looking forward to watching the Bucks tomorrow. We'll see how that Zwick dose, and maybe they'll through the Cleveland boy Ginn in, I don't know if he was red-shirted? Have fun at the Jake, come early, the air show is going on and the Blue Angles are here (always impressive).
Went from 62nd and St Clair in the 50's to Garfield and then on to Solon where I stayed till off to BG to college. Married a Parma Hts girl. Live here in the NW part of the state, but visit regular for sporting events. We hope to get a bite b/4hand at a slavic place by the west side mkt...........can't think of the name, seems it's overlooking the flats. Luckily our parking is taken care of. Was at a day game with the air show.....................whooooooooooosh..................quite a site, hell of a game.
stay in touch, we'll hook up sometime. Where you live now?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Paolo- I was just in Cleveland visiting relatives, I like going, been about 30 times now overall. Got mixed reviews of the economy there, does all construction slow down during the winter or just the union jobs? Is it because of the severe weather? One thing I noticed about Cleveland that stuck out to me was that alot of the housing was post Word War 1 & 2..so the remodel market must not be as strong as it is here in Boston or any of the other older cities where it isn't uncommon to find 1700s era houses. If you are considering a move at some point I would strongly endorse Chicago, I visited there this summer and it was a great city. Ton of interesting projects I saw going on as well.
-Ray
Manpower problems? Naw... that was a joke. The punch line was that I actually lost one...
In an industry that is rather known for turnover problems, I have been fortunate to not have any (knocking wood, and read the homeowner's association thread!). I'd like to think it is because I try hard to be a good owner and a good boss. Thanks for the compliment... but there are more of us good ones out here than you might think.
Not quite sure why the market is so slow up there during the winter (except that it's colder than all-get-out, and it's nasty when that wind comes in off the lake!). I have a MIL up there, and even in her new housing complex... the remodelers have been doing gang-buster business bringing trac-homes into a more "custom home" for the owners. Seems like every fifth or sixth house has a sign out front. I have only been on the southern edge of Cuyahoga County, though... so my view may be distorted compared to the whole city. That, and I am a bit more likely to notice the signs since that is what my primary business is.
I did visit a friend downtown Cleveland that was pointing out some of the vacancies in the flats and surrounding area. He said that something was in the wind about revitalizing the area again... but didn't have any real details. I would have really enjoyed working on some of those warehouse projects in the area just above the flats (keeping fingers crossed on a similar project here).
Best of luck to ya.
Edited 9/3/2004 9:06 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
I'm an hour East of you,and a good friend just retired from the carpenter' local here at age 50.Your age and years of service have to add up to 80.He started his apprenticeship when he was twenty.It's a pretty nice benefit but like most doesn't cover medical benefits.So he works part time as a superintendent.I think their scale is around $27,a far cry from the $10 they were getting non-union on the Sam's Club we just finished.
Edited 9/4/2004 11:56 pm ET by IBEW Barry
I'm Union . I don't care if a man or woman is union or non-union. It's all in what you want or make of it . I'm Local #40. Boston . We make just over 30 dollars an hour.Then there is your annuity and your pension. Also we have health & dental.
Just in case someone there is interested in working as a carpenter for the Comm. of Massachusetts see the link below.
http://ceo.hrd.state.ma.us/ceo.nsf/42719dc0df11664f85256a2b005f440e/1ab0aa93ff840c2085256eed00563deb?OpenDocument
It addresses the preferred qualifications and pay range. While the pay may not be great to start with the benefits are pretty good. 2 weeks vacation to start, 3 personal days, 13 holidays and health insurance (85% pd) along with 15 sick days.
The union is NAGE not the traditional carpenters union.
Currently we have no carpenter. The last one we moved up to a building manager. I now get my carpentry done thru a pre-approved tradespersons list and there is a shop sitting empty until I fill that spot.
The buildings the work would be in are The State House, One Ashburton Place, the Lindeman & the Hurley buildings