One of my workers has been offered a union job. He is talking it up as a great opportunity. I’d like to hear from some of you guys with union experience– what are the pros and cons; how much of a bite do union dues take out of your check, does the work get boring? How much say do you have as to what kind of work and where you can work?
Let it fly!
Replies
Union was veddy veddy good to me...
Union dues about $30 a month in CA
Not much say about what kind of job you're dispatched to, unless you have a friend supervising on a union work crew who can call the hall and request you specifically. Was working bridges for 5 years, saw 2 different finish carpenters dispatched to those jobs who walked off after the first day. (dirty, hard work wasn't to their liking) In which case, you go back on the books for ? more weeks.
Good health benefits, some retirement credits, disability insurance (covered by that for the last 4 months of my pregnancy, guess they didn't want me climbing up 20 foot walls when I could'nt see my feet)
He will have to work hard (despite what guys say about union workers) and will be expected to have a pretty good, if not excellent, knowledge of the work being done...
Every carp should have at least 1 union job. Unless they already have a sweet set up with a successful co that takes care of their workers, (not always easy to find)
Been Union for almost 20yrs(Chicago)
You can work or not work where ever you chose.What I mean is ,it's not a closed union.You can walk on a job and ask if they are hiring and go to work on the spot (as long as it's union).If you don't like the job or Co. you can leave and look for another job.You don't need to get your jobs from the Hall.
Con:If the Plumbers or Electricians or any other Union contractor pickets the job you are working on ,the Carpenters will not cross their line so you stay home or if you are lucky Co. will send you to another job.
Pro: Good Insurance.Just my prescription coverage alone has saved me thousands.
As far as your friend is concerned, he has nothing to loose trying out the Union (except maybe a few hundred bucks to join).
Sure he will have to hump.Union or not carpentry is 80% labor and time is money on any job.
Failure is not a sin.Not trying is a tragedy!
I was a union carpenter..and I can say that the outfit I worked for was top notch. Good steady work...very safety conscious. I am very indendent however...and I told the BA at the local..that if they ever wanted me to strike...I would not walk a picket line that was interfering with a non union guy trying to feed his family.
This raised a few eyebrows....I never was asked to picket. I did get layed off once....the only time in my life..and I went to my stairshop and havent looked back since.
I have been a union carpenter for the last few years and have actually had to go out on my own to keep working. We make really good money here in northern Ohio as long as you work. Most of the jobs are interesting. My local is midway between Toledo and Cleveland so we wind up driving to one or the other. The benefits are good and you don't miss anything from your wages for dues. They are $20 per month for my local.The union has great training programs for commercial work--thats all we have an agreement for in this area--so if you want to work residential, you have to work non union and you will work all the time. I guess that's the trade off.If your guy wants to work just commercial than he will probably enjoy it.
Union carpenters is an oximoran.
You got one response from a union carpenter building bridges? What's that about.
Union carpenters around here only need tin snips to show up for a job. It may pay well but the only wood these guys see is concrete forms and what's between their legs. Let it go because this ones after the quick bucks and not willing to lean a trade. The title carpenter and union shouldn't be allowed in the same sentence.
________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
Mad dog,
I visit hundreds of jobs sites a month. both union and non-union..
Union Good points here.
you retire at age 55 with full benefits.. full pay..
great health and benefits.
In eleven years the only ones sitting on the bench didn't want to work. (and said so)
You will be asked if you can do something before sent to a job, thus if you don't like trim work tell 'em you can't..or form work etc.
Job security isn't as important as union security.. since you can work a non-union job (scab) and still retain your union membership, you increase your chances of work.
Bad Union points,
It's difficult to develope the same personal relationshhips that some have with their boss with the union structure.
Rules are a big deal.. but it works both ways.. if you obey the rules and pay your dues it's difficult for a employer to can you for unjustified reasons.
There is a formal structure in skill levels, you will need to attend classes whenever the weather shuts down the job site to get a promotion..
Thanks everyone. Interesting how different some of the responses have been, though most seem to be toward the positive.
I really care about this guy. He put in some hard hours with me, and I can't keep him working steadily right now, so if this is a good path for him, I'm glad to get some confirmation here.
Keep 'em coming,
MD
I think the union is good for the union. Giant bureaucracy sucking up mega$$$. Very socialistic by nature.
Can you imagine them charging a young single carpenter almost 3 bucks an hour for health insurance? Give me a break already!
Edited 3/14/2003 1:24:05 PM ET by ALLENSCHELL2
Just curious where you got that figure of costing a young single carpenter $3 per hour for health insurance.
The only thing I pay is .83 a day for dues. ( $75 a quarter)
Its part of our health and welfare package. The stamps that we get are about 7$ per hour and it breaksdown to about 3$ an hour for health insurance.
Thanks for the reply Allen.
I haven't heard of these "stamps" could you fill me in on how they work?
Is it a regional thing ? I'm out of 1889 Dupage county Ill.
Must be benny(a regional thing) I've not heard of stamps.
558 Elmhurst IL
Stamps are the bennies package that the contractor pays to the union. In N.Y. we bet $36 an hour in the paycheck & $22 -$25 an hour in "stamps". In some locals you get a 35 hour stamp {or whatever hours you worked} that goes in a quarterly stampbook and you send it in every 3 months - most now do it over the computer and you just get a statement with your paycheck stating ABC Co. has paid 35 hours in stamps to the hall.
The stamps cover medical,pension, annuity, $1 to the union,vacation,training fund for apprentices,etc.
I am not, and have never been a union carpenter.
Having said that, when I was living in Chicago I observed that it's probably in the employee's best interests to go union, if he doesn't have self employment aspirations. The starting pay for an apprentice is about $18 (as far as I can remember). They top out around $30. Plus good benefits. Seems pretty good to me.
Now Allen, the reason I replied to you is I think that a new carpenter making $18 with benefits (even if he has to pay for them a little) is a great deal. So many experienced guys are making that amount with no benefits, and on top of that they supply truck and tools.
Jon Blakemore
Jon, I couldn't agree with you more especially for a young guy. I'm a 51 yr. old stair builder and for me its a pain, I don't want to be limited by what they tell me I should make but for a young man its a good deal.
went to hall in 82 at 1pm cause of recession waited for business agent to come back from lunch at 2pm(nice lunch) who knows when he left... he said come here at 7am i'll pick your brain. nobody picks my brain.i went to work next day building million dollar(multi nowadays) homes in saddle river nj been on the carosel of life ever since. just dont step off. hard work is good
Mad Dog:
We do reisdential rough-in, in Kansas City. I hired a union guy temporarily. He was laid off by the union. I've got to say, no disrespect to you union guys, but I think unions have outlived their need. In the old days when guys were getting killed because of unsafe working conditions, and getting paid peanuts to do it, they needed the union. Now days, with OSHA and all the other agencies regulating us and watching out for our safety, I dont think they are needed. We have a Ford auto plant nearby. I know alot of the line workers are stoned out of their minds getting paid $25 an hour to put three screws in a door as it goes by. No wonder cars are so damned expensive. I've gotten off track, anyway he started out OK enough. We are in the middle of raising a wall, and he is talking about taking his morning break. He told me a story about how they were trying to get some trenching done. There was a stack of about 15 pieces of conduit in their way. They sat there for three hours waiting for a union electrician to move the conduit. "It aint my job." It took maybe five minutes. I cant deal with that. My guys get great pay, great benefits, safe conditions, respect, steady work, and lots of appreciation. We dont need to be union. You couldnt get them to go union. You need people that want to get the "job" done. Not just their small portion. Like I said, no disrespect intended to you union guys, maybe your situation in your state is different.
Mike
Hi Mike,
There are a few people in my local union just like the guy you hired, who are more concerned with work rules than getting the job done.They don't work much unless work is booming.For the most part they're control freaks and malcontents,a very small minority these days.
As to the point someone made about charging a young guy 3 bucks an hour for health insurance;that's not out of his check,but in addition to his cash per hour.You wouldn't ask how they can charge him 10% for a pension benefit either,because it's an employer paid part of the benefit package.
Because of my screen name I get pegged as being super pro union,but I'm not.I don't go to union meetings anymore because of my disgust with local and international leadership,but as far as the guy working with the tools,there isn't a much better way to provide for your family.I just use my union's initials in my name just as an "in your face" dig for the rabidly anti-union people here.Like GEOB21 who shouldn't use the word "oxymoron" unless he can spell it.
There are pro & con with everything. I'm not pro or anti union - I'm pro making a living. I work half the year union & the other half I work for myself{fully licensed & insured}. I don't get the rabid union guys or the extreme non-union attitudes. Both have there place - but both are not perfect.
To All,
What I want to know is.....how can young kid that doesn't know how to use a router or have very little knowledge of the building trades get into the union before a skilled carpenter with 10 years experience can? I've unsuccessfully tried 3 times to get in but with no call backs. My father....a union laborer for 22 years says its politics within the union. Any one care to fire the first shot?
Mike,
the highest accident rate in the industry is by indepentant contractors. much lower in union jobs.. The higher standard of wages paid today is because union guys refused to work for unfair wages.
Nobody willever tell you that the union is perfect, however if you are trying to get a fair deal from some (repeat some) contractors you don't have as much clout as the union does..
If you've ever been fired for some unfair reason, you'll appreciate the power of the union behind you.. I once worked for a boss who wanted to give the job to his brother-in-law. He did everything possible to fire me. If there had been a union the issue would have been over.. It got so bad that finally his boss ordered him to transfer me to another's territory.
I work in a industry not represented by unions.. As a result every time a manager is fired I know my job is on the line.. new managers want employees loyal to them not to their predecesor.
It does not matter how my performance has been.. In most cases I was either the top producer or near the top when terminated..
You provide Retirement, full medical and a hall that will find you a job if you get laid off? Plus a host of other benefits.You miss 100% of the shots you never take." Wayne Greztky