Finally removed the guard on my Makita portable table saw; it interfered with storage, portability and line of sight. Although I enjoy the saw much more now, I can’t help wondering if this is a big mistake.
Do you guys keep the guard or toss it?
ten digits to date, Carl
Replies
--"Do you guys keep the guard or toss it?"
I keep mine...hanging on the wall in the shop. ; )
Then your one up on me cause I dont know where I left mine!
Doug
I'm gonna remove the splitter and anti-kickback pawls from the guard and use the guard upside down as a sinkbase tilt-out tray.
it's with mine...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
they come w/guards?? oh yeh.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 yep all ten fingers and no guard. Oh knock on wood just in case.
and I'm not gonna go into how many of us NEVER wear saftey glasses.
I'm guessing 1 in 10 do. Ear protection? Same guess......if that.
As for me...I never do. Not proud of it. Just never have, cept on a rare occasion.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
All my guards got tossed.
Glasses? EVERY time. Really. I had way too many close calls and it is a LONG ways to the Hosp. from here.
Ear protection? router=always, TS=depends on what I cutting. Miter saw, almost never. At the roof, hearing protection=almost never, even when I should, Glasses ALWAYS. Copper bits in the eyes really hurt. I saw gutter and downspout with a circsaw or a chop saw, slings copper bits like schrapnel.
My weakness is dust masks when sanding, I hate the things, Id rather have wood boogers than have that strapped to my face unless...it is a full day, then the resperator comes outtta the bag, cuz that means I will soon be spraying lacquer. The last time I sprayed w/o a mask, I was hungover ( bad) for two days, I can't handle lacquer any more.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
I wuz just talkin' woody's : ) not that they're any less dangerous...huh?..lol...metal shrapnel I always use eye protection but with wood..almost never I'm sorry to say. Must be the difference between a cabinet maker and remodeler. How often do you put on saftey glasses when you use your CS to cut a 2x4? On the hoe shows they always do.
They even put em' on when they paint...lol.
When I was cutting Advantech subfloor I wore them almost every time because that crap is as bad as shrapnel...Great stuff but real annoying to cut...god only knows what's in the glue that bonds it all together....eeeeeeeee. Saftey glasses, ear protection, dust mask...uhhhh...what else...armored chaps?
I'm livin' on borrowed time anyway...lol.
BE WELL!!
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Started my table saw once a few years ago and felt a sharp sting in the middle of my forehead. Turned the saw off to investigate and found that a carbide tooth had come off on startup and headed straight for my face. Scared the #*&% out of me.
I learned not to have any skinny pieces between the blade and the fence.
Years ago...a three foot 1/2 piece flew out and went right through the wall board behind me. It also taught me to never stand directly in front of the blade either.
I do have the guard on my DW SCMS. Its a great guard and never in my way.
I also hate when anyone that works for me puts a chunk of wood between the guard and the housing on my CS to keep the blade exposed. That's grounds to be fired after the're told one time.
And far as anyone that works for me...if they use my table saw I insist they use the eye protection that's always kept on my saw fence.
If I wanna be stupid and not use them...that's my prerogative. Sometimes I use em' but mostly I don't...to be honest here.
When people say they always use em' I tend to not believe most people.
Kinda like...I only had two beers...or I never drove after I drank.
Same safety thing...different weapon is all...lol
It only takes one time.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Didn't FB have an article on converting the mounting piece for the blade guard into a riving knife several months ago? I did that w/ my Bosch & it works great. I could see a difference in how it functioned immediately.Let's go beyond that. Safety glasses always - I wear them 24/7, less when I'm asleep. Respiratory protection, nearly always, unless cutting off a single piece of wood. But, OTOH, coming out of Uncle Sam's Army & etching a lot of glass, the mask is second nature to me. Hearing - always - already lost a significant amount of that. I'll go one step further. I bought a used flak jacket off e-bay. I have a pacemaker, & I have no desire to take a kickback shot in the chest. A direct hit on the PM would hurt beyond all belief & probably cost me another surgery. I've likewise seen that piece of lumber come out over my shoulder & go through wallboard; had my belt buckle once stop a kickback. Been lucky twice - not tempting fate any further.Table saws are dangeerous, but absolutely necessary. And those damnable guards are slightly less than worthless.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
It's fine to say you don't use the guard if you are the only one using it, it's your saw and you take full responsibility.I was the same way until I had others working for me. Now the guard is on and it better stay there unless the cut demands that it be off.Comp is high enough without a stupid accident like that.
Barry E-Remodeler
Barry
I'm with you, to a certain extent.
When the saws come with a decent guard then maybe more people will use them, the riving knife that I've seen made out of the guard is nice, saw it done by some menonite carps several years ago and did it to mine, works good, when I have it on!
The saftey glass thing though, dont know why anybody would cut with out them, not just for metal either. If I was running a shop and saw someone with out them I'd send em packing, wouldnt be any exceptions. I never understand not having them on.
Doug
Doug,I've seen the riving knife on Katz web site and was interested, but I don't see how it's going to save fingers in some situations. Anyone have some hands on experience?I do agree about the existing guards being crap, but multiple people, with different skill sets using a saw it still seems to be better than nothing.A local remodelor recently had one of his guys run his fingers thru the tablesaw, after 6 surgeries and a metal rod in his middle finger his trim days are over and the comp claim against my friend has the rest of the crew walking on eggs. From what the witness' say a guard would have avoided it easily.Saying all of that I still take the guard off when I'm alone and then neglect to put it back on. Maybe someday they will improve. Remember the first guards on chop saws? Now they rarely bother me at all. I do have an overhead guard on my shop saw and it doesn't bug me as bad as the portable table saw ones.
Barry E-Remodeler
What is the purpose of a riveing knife?
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
GunnerDoug would probably know more, but it basicly seems to be a splitter without the guard.I'd like some more info from users also.Here's the article about it:http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/RivingKnife.htm
Barry E-Remodeler
I've glanced over that article before. Doesn't look all that hard.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Nope, It just seems like there would be a few situations where it is not much safer than no guard? That blade is still sticking up there, seems like it could be a false sense of security at times
Barry E-Remodeler
A riving knife fits behind the blade. Ever rip a 2x4 and have the two cut pieces either splay apart or come back together (close the kerf) on themselves? The riving knife keeps the board you just cut from binding on the blade.
Thanks. I'm interested in them now that you mention that.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Someone else mentioned the Gary Katz article he did recently on table saw safety. He was showing on a Bosch table saw and he made his out of his guard. It was pretty cool. I've been meaning to pull my grinder out and make one for my saw.
Gunner
The riveing knife has a different purpose then the guard but I dont feel unconfortable with out the guard and on a big slider I dont use it without the riveing knife.
The riveing knife keeps the two pieces that you are cutting seperated. Ever cut wood that has stress relief in it where the board pinches back on itself?
Also the riveing knife will keep plywood/wood away from the trailing edge of the saw blade. If your running a sheet of ply through the saw sometimes the end will either get bumped into the blade or will vibarate into it in which case it can become a projectile!
I'm sure that this can be explained by someone more articulate then I but nobody here fits that bill so.....
I dont get my fingers near the saw blade, thats what push sticks are for. Not saying that I havent taken stupid chances in the past but not anymore, You can only play Russian Rullet so many times before you become Crazy Joe Bowwer!
Doug
Barry,I did the riving knife on my Makita 2703 saw 3 years ago, and on my dad's Bosch saw last year. It will not directly protect you from feeding your fingers into the blade, but it will help a lot with overall safety.The riving knife frees my attention from worrying about kickback issues, so I have more of my attention available to focus on safe technique. I always use a push stick for ripping thin stock. Life is too long to go through with <10 fingers.The big problem with most OEM guards sold in USA is that you cannot rip narrow stock easily or safely. The guard actually forces you to feed the work in an unsafe way, with your hand pressing at a weird angle to clear the guard. Another problem is that they stick above the table and get bent/broken easily when the saw is transported. My riving knife is a hair lower than the blade, so it disappears below the table when I lower the blade all the way. It always stays on the saw. The only times it would need to come off would be for plunge cuts, dado blades, or coving operations. The Makita is a pain to remove and replace the knife on, so I leave it always on. The Bosch is made so it is easy to remove and put back on the saw without making adjustments every time. Check out Gary Katz's article online. The modification is fast and easy, and free if you still have the factory guard.Bill
BillThanks for the review. I'll give it a try.
Barry E-Remodeler
Wise response Barry, I cringe everytime one of my guys use the Table saw. I lost half a thumb and tips of two fingers when I was young and stupid. Not even that old yet but have a healthy fear of the thing. The gaurd really makes what I do difficult (drop ins and scribing for finish carpentry). do it often. I just am reeeaaal careful. Also note that a wet table saw (from rain drops) makes the material move across the table in an unpredictable way. Best to avoid that situation. Be well guysJay"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
Fear is good. It seems the ones who get hurt are the newbys who don't know enough to fear the saw or guys who have been doing this for years and forget to fear,It's good to have a healty respect
Barry E-Remodeler
Have you tried the 3M dust mask with breathing valve? It's been great for me; big enough for my size XL nose and the check valve lets air out so my glasses don't fog up.
BruceT
I don't have the guard on either of my table saws (jobsite or shop) but recently, I have been thinking of installing a riving knife on the jobsite saw. (see Gary Kats website)
I have the Bosch and built the riving knife Gary designed. Works terrifically.
Webby
hfhcarp10
I removed mine and it cost me a broken arm.. a kick back of a small chunk of wood shattered my forearm.
Would the guard have prevented that injury, or in the absence of the riving knife were you assaulted by the stock? I can see I'm not alone in removing the guard from a table saw.In 30 plus years of using power tools, I have suffered only one serious injury: a severe cut across my free hand from a utility knife.Be careful out there!
Carl
Edited 11/19/2006 2:54 pm ET by hfhcarp10
hfhcarp10
I was forced to remove the guard because I was cutting too thin of stock and it would jam between the rieveing knifeand the antikick back tangs.
My basic mistake was to use too coarse of a toothed blade. Had I changed blades I doubt that it would have happened.
Funny you should ask. I have watched quite a few runs of "The New Yankee Workshop" with Norm Abram. At the beginning of every show he always says something to the effect, " Be sure to read and follow all the safety instructions and use guards on all your equipment" etc. etc. That's way off from a direct quote but he's obeyed the CYA rule just in case. Once I'd seen several shows however I bagan to notice that he hasn't used a guard or antikickback device on his shop table saw since the show started. The only thing I've seen attached to his saw on a regular basis is the fence!
"....and there's no more important safety rule than to wear these, safety glasses..."I believe Norm says something about the guard being removed for the clarity of demonstration. At last count, I recall Norm having all ten.Carl
Edited 11/19/2006 3:10 pm ET by hfhcarp10
you ever notice that the guy (i think his name was bob) on that bob vila show only had 8.5 fingers......wonder how
Bob Riley. I saw the episode just before and then the episodes just after,, it WAS a Table saw. I saw the operation he was doing ( I can't recall real clearly at the moment, but I know I saw it) and and thought to my self : "that sumbitch is gonna lose a finger doing that" and then , he was AWOL for a few shows, then back, with a gauzed up hand.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
i hear that! but still don't wanna put the guard on.....careful, careful
Duane
I saw that episode as well, thought the same damn thing!
I think on the following episode Vila asked him what happened to his hand and he responded with some crack about not using the guard or something!
Doug
Every once in a while he'll say something about how the guard is off the table saw for clarity of shots for the camera. Theres some convoluted logic, "we must be safe at all times, but the cameras here so nothing will happen".
Tsk tsk.
I work without a guard on my power saw and eeryone thinks I made a deal with the devil.
I'm a victim of dual standards.
blue
You work without the guard on your circular saw?
One of the guys I trimmed with jammed the guard permanently in the up position. Said it scratched the shelving.
I might have used a guard for about three weeks in the last 30 years or so. I cut the extended table (bladeside) off the saw too. I learned with a saw like this and have a hard time trying to figure out why anyone would want a powersaw with all those gadgets on it. Powersaws are just as ineffective with them on as table saws are. If it's okay to strip the table saw, it's far more safer to strip the power saw.
blue
I your hands, I'm sure that chopped saw does some amazing work.
I'd be bleeding profusely by noon.May neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.
Gord
I always wear glasses, and use the guards on everything except the table saw. It didn't come with one when my grandfather bought it, just before WWII. So far, my father nicked a finger once. I haven't used it on a daily basis in a very long time, so limited exposure is probably what's kept my hands intact.
Does anybody know of a good TS guard? I'd get one if I could find one that didn't do more harm than good.
-- J.S.
The BEST gaurd is is one that hovers over the blade on an arm attached to the aux table. But these are for shop set ups mostly, never a site saw AFAIK. They can also have dust colloecter hooked up, real nice.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
I used mine in the field and did a lot of resawing, so the guard came off. It's stayed off too.
Once it was set up to do a lot of ripping and I added Board Buddies, which were a real comfort for safety plus a much better rip.
I have two table saws and neither has its guard on it. All my other saws retain their guards and if there's a problem with them I take them out of service. For some reason a table saw just doesnt seem "right" with a guard on it (theres a logical thought).
I guess its kinda like a seatbelt, I always wear them in my car but when I drove semi I never wore one. With a truck that big I figured i'd either walk away from an accident or be scraped off the pavement regardless of the belt.
As far as glasses, I wear prescription which is kind of a bummer cause it turns into an excuse for not wearing safety glasses. I dont go near a router without hearing protection, and if were cutting MDF or Hardibacker we wear masks.
As far as glasses, I wear prescription which is kind of a bummer cause it turns into an excuse for not wearing safety glasses.
ya - I finally got a pair of presciption safety glasses made with a focal point close to arms length - otherwise I take my glasses off so I can see - real bad habit -
now, if I could just keep track of all my pairs of glasses....
"there's enough for everyone"
About 3 weeks ago I was breaking more than one safety rule wth my table saw (the first was no guard) and cut off the top of my middle finger, and sliced open my thumb and ring finger. I have another 4 weeks of physical therapy to go. I'm not suggesting everyone needs a guard, but respect the saw, use push sticks, don't take risks when you tired, etc.
I came up with an old inherited rockwell, no guard, 1/2 of the baseplate gone.
When I bought the new saw 8 years ago I took het guard off but left eth shoe intact.
When I startd this jib I have now, I brought out my saw and was told to remove it from the job. No guard can't be here. Someone will get hurt.
I feel very comfortable without a guard, people should leave my saw alone, it isn't theirs.
Guard is on, but often jammed open.
You are not alone!Friends help you move.
Real friends help you move bodies!
Interestingly bstcrpntr, I'd probably leave the guard on and cut off that extended baseplate if I only could do one or the other.
Removing that baseplate gives me access to withing 5/8" on a true vertical cut. By tipping the saw a bit, I can make flush cuts with my power saw in places that others need a sawzall.
The extended table will bind my saw when Im doing "creative" cuts with it. For me, it is a significant hazard and I"m sure I'd have damaged many digits over the years if I hadn't removed it. For me, it is a very serious impediment.
blue
After someone uses a table saw for a month or so, becomes somewhat familiar with the safety rules and factory installed guards, they should have a modest grip upon the rules for safe use of most table saws. With all the guards and splitters in place, the user is less likely to get in trouble but the danger still exists for the even the most careful of users. At some point expediency comes into play and the guards usually come off, the point has then been reached where the user should ramp up the common sense of what they are about to do and keep their minds focused upon the task in front of them. Stay out of the plane of the blade, the line of fire, go slow and steady, don't bind the work and use a push stick at all times. The greatest safety device is using your brain and listen to that little voice inside that speaks to you just before you begin doing something unsafe. If I had a buck from every table saw victim who told me that they had an uneasy feeling just before cutting off some part of their fingers or hands, I could take a couple of friends out for dinner on the house.Guards are a good thing but at times they can be in the way, try cutting off a short piece of wood with a circular saw and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Nail it to a work surface and use both hands you idiot!
I tossed mine right out of the box. In my opinion they are more dangerous to use on the saw, more stuff to get hung up on
mark