How do you determine the value of a used tool or piece of equipment?
For instance, if I were to sell a used table saw, what would be a fair price? (I’m not selling one, this is just an example). Should the price be whatever the market will bear? Should it be how much I think it is worth? Maybe a percentage of the price of a new one?
When I purchase things, I don’t have any problem. I will pay whatever I feel the item is worth to me. Selling something is a different story–especially something used.
The deal is, I sold some used boating equipment today and a friend gave me a hard time about how much I sold it for. He things I sold it for too much. I suppose I’m feeling a little guilty and wonder how others determine prices.
Replies
If you sold it too cheap he'd be giving you a hard time also.
It's worth what someone is willing to pay.
I think you are right. As this was good-natured ribbing, he would have given me a hard time no matter what.
Used tools in good condition I figure 50-60% of new cost, although some items would be more and some less. You might be able to get closer to 75-80% for stuff like Festool, Lie Nielsen planes, etc. Also, stuff that really doesn't wear out might go for better than 60%... an example being a heavy duty Werner fiberglass ladder used but not sun-bleached.
Bottom line, if someone bought for your price it was worth that much. It might be worth more depending on whether you are willing to wait for the right buyer. The only way you ever really know is to sell stuff that sells frequently within an accepted price range. I used to buy and sell a lot of Hasselblad camera gear on eBay and thru usenet and there were very standard prices for most pieces in a given condition. Anyway, you must have had something your friend wanted.
Did I mention my mower is running really well? I did not mess with the crankshaft seal but I probably will after the season. I need to dig up the other thread and thank everyone for their advice.
Glad to hear about your mower--was wondering how you made out with it.
You can check out prices on Craig's List and at the local pawn shop. Of course, pawn shops almost always seem to overprice by about 20-30% (I assume they expect you to bargain), and listings on Craig's List may be high or low depending on how anxious the seller is to unload the stuff, but you at least get a ballpark.
I know what you mean about pawn shops. Sometimes they price their stuff at the same price or even higher than new--dickering is part of the deal.
I'll probably catch it for saying this, but I have bought a lot of tools from pawn shops and gotten some really good deals on like-new tools. Usually pay 40% to 50% of new price if the tool is like new and has all required parts and accessories.
The best way to determine the 'right' price is the market. If you're happy, and the buyer is happy, then all is well.
Now, "the market" is an abstract thing. There's a world of difference between, say, two '65 Chevys with 220,000 miles on them. One may be in great shape, the other a rolling wreck. One may be original, the other 90% Chinese replacement parts. Moreover, that car is worth more to a Chevy lover than it is to, say, someone who just wants basic transportation.
What is important is that you be honest, not misrepresenting the item, or concealing defects. I'd go even further, and say you have a duty to disclose any 'material' imperfections.
For example, I would consider it unethical to sell the car with new tires, while failing to disclose that the reason for the new tires is to conceal the fact the car can no longer be aligned.
As for others' opinions ... well, too bad. They're not in the drivers' seat.
> For example, I would consider it unethical to sell the car with new tires, while failing to disclose that the reason for the new tires is to conceal the fact the car can no longer be aligned.I don't see the problem, assuming you know that the engine will blow up before the tires need replacing.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
If you're happy, and the buyer is happy, then all is well.
Not if the buyer is too happy. ;)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
You can always use Ebay. If you have an account, click on advanced search and indicate you only want to view closed sales. type in your item description and ...there you go. You can probably add something for being face to face with the seller so he can examine the item.
Ebay is an amazing tool for this purpose. How many times as a kid did I look in a book to find out what my penny collection was worth...just to find out the prices were all artificial. Now an amazing aray of prices are available at the click of a mouse.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Interesting point with used vehicles. Do I really have a DUTY to disclose imperfections?
I certainly have the moral obligation to be truthful. But am I to voluntarily disclose every defect known about a used car I am selling? I keep my vehicles for a long time, do all my own maintenance and repairs and after a hundred thousand miles or two, I know the vehicles intimately.
Last car I sold was a 240 Volvo wagon with 300,000 miles on it. It was a great vehicle. I would not have hesitated to drive it across the country at the time I sold it. (Of course I would have taken the title in case it died along the way I had to get rid of it at a junk yard.)
A guy showed up and was interested in buying the car. He kicked the tires, looked at the engine and asked a few questions. I told him the AC didn't work, the rear window washer didn't work, one of the door locks didn't automatically unlock... I could have gone on and on about all the things I thought might become an issue in the future. I didn't. I didn't lie or "conceal defects". I let the vehicle speak for itself.
The guy liked the car and bought it. I felt like we made a fair bargain. Funny thing is, he bought the car without even test driving it.
Note: This guy was not a young kid, he was a middle-aged man looking for an around-town type of work vehicle.
I said "material imperfections" for a reason. It would be unreasonable for you to highlight every nick and scratch ..... however, if the flaw has a direct effect on the utility or value of the vehicle, you have a duty to disclose it.
Now, there is precious little 'legal' obligation for you to do your 'duty.' We're talking ethics here, not law - and, of course, there's plenty of room for debate and personal opinions.
Yet, I submit that if you were to follow the writings of various noted philosophers - going back thousands of years - you would find they outline this position as well. The issue isn't new; even potters were known to conceal cracks in their wares.
Standing by and playing dumb, saying nothing, does not meet the level of honesty that I expect. Or, to put it another way ... if I did that, my heart would tell me I was wrong.
The principle applies in the opposite situation as well. I once has a co-worker tell how he knew a neighbors' car needed but a minor repair - but sounded as if it would fly apart any moment. He bragged how he had talked them into selling the car for a pittance ... which he quickly fixed ... and sold it himself at a handy profit. IMO, this guy was a crook. He deliberately exaggerated the flaw to his benefit ... and you can be sure he did not boast of his cleverness to potential buyers. Personally, I find such people distasteful.
It's not about the talents of the customer - it's about your own moral compass.
Ah yes, we are talking ethics here--also semantics. What is a "material imperfection"? Would not any nick or scratch effect the value of a vehicle? As to the "utility of a vehicle" wouldn't that would be any condition causing the vehicle to be in less than new condition.
I'm not talking about standing by and playing dumb, so much as I'm talking about being a mechanic and knowing every nuance of a machine--nuances that would fall more in the category of "to be expected of for the age and condition of the vehicle." These issues taken as a whole put the vehicle in a category and price range.
We are talking about a mechanically sound, 20 year old car with 300,000 miles sold in the $500-$750 range (can't remember exactly).
That was more my point in responding to you. As a somewhat perfectionistic person with a mechanical background, I pick up on the most minute details. I get into any vehicle or piece of equipment and in short order I can come up with a list of "flaws". It amazes (and at times confounds) my wife. For me, it is sometimes difficult to know at what point to draw the line.
Another case in point. My wife had a single lady friend who wanted my help picking out a pre-owned car. I talked to her about the practicality of vehicle models based on her lifestyle, maintenance costs, fuel consumption, overall cost per mile and so forth. Information overload. She just wanted someone to help her choose a decent car with a pretty color.
Interesting point with used vehicles. Do I really have a DUTY to disclose imperfections?
In most states, yes. If I buy a car from you and discover a defect you did not disclose in writing, I can sue and will likely win.
Some people will always gripe about the price. It is the way they were brought up.
If equipment is in good shape and well used they are getting a good deal.
If it was abused they are getting something that won't last.
Buyer beware!
Will Rogers
The definition of the fair market value is: That price a willing buyer gives a willing seller.
So you obviously were at the fair market value for what you sold, provided you weren't twisting the seller's arm somehow.
I agree with David above. 50-60% of retail is usually a good starting point. Great condition? Maybe 70% Worn condition starts moving it down the ladder. I always check ebay, traderonline etc. to check prices in case the item is a "hot" item and will sell for more. If buying I want to of course find it for less. DanT
value is established by the least the seller is willing to accept and the most a buyer is willing to pay. It has nothing to do with the opinion of a bystander.
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Unless the bystander is an IRS agent.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
value is established by the least the seller is willing to accept and the most a buyer is willing to pay. It has nothing to do with the opinion of a bystander.
Tell that to the state departments of revenue in states that have started charging buyers taxes on the Bluebook price of a vehicle.....even if it sold for less.
In life...there are people like my mother in law............If you bought it you paid too much...if you sold it you didn't get enough.
And then again.........people liek your friend who probably sold something similar but didn't get near enough.
Either way? Used equipment prices might be 50% or 60% of new..............or, during a downturn 10% of new.
Either way.....had you asked too much? You'd still have it.
Is he giving you guff because he bought it and feels he paid too much? DON'T feel guilty, charge what the market will bear.
Mike
Thanks to all for the replies. The consensus appears to be that the market sets the price on used equipment.
I also had insight into why my friend was giving me a hard time. He and I have been boating, crabbing, shrimping together for 20 years, during which time we both had boats. I sold my boat last winter, but just now sold my shrimping gear (hence this thread).
Well, my buddy had lost a shrimp pot and I wanted to "give" him one of mine, but there is no way he would take it for free, so I sold it to him for practically nothing. I think when he found out how much I sold the other stuff for, he couldn't deal with how little I had charged him. He is a bit older (and now handicapped) and won't let me do anything to help him without paying me for it.
We are complicated creatures. Either that, or I'm out to lunch and he was just giving me a ration. Who knows?
Anyway, thanks to all for the input.
levelone
"When I purchase things, I don't have any problem. I will pay whatever I feel the item is worth to me."
I think you answered your own ???. You put a value that you would pay & the buyer
paid what he/she thought was fair for the item sounds like a win win. By the way
there's no such thing as selling for too much the fair market price is up to the buyer
Zeeya
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What things sell for has as much to do with the motivations of the seller as anything else, especially in this economy.I've had people give me #### for buying things at ridiculously low prices. My feeling is that if someone wants/needs to sell something right away, i can help them out by buying it.Now, I'm not talking about situations like a widow selling her husband's tools at un-informed prices - I'd step in and correct or inform a person in that situation.And I've been a seller motivated to get rid of something quick too, so I know how it goes.Tell your friend to worry about some other problem that isn't there.JT
Yeah, I unloaded a virtually new tile saw at 1/2 new price. Sold quickly (on Craig's List), which was my goal, since I didn't want to store it.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
My level is 10% of new, with certain lowball prices for certain items.
90% of what I buy anymore is garage sales, estate sales, etc.
Craigslist is way overpriced, so often will simply leave an e-mail with an offer. I've left a guy an e-mail on vehicles simply telling them if they were not able to sell their '92 ex cab S-10 with 150K and 'busted' tranny for the $1K they were asking, my buying price for such was $246. 6 months later the guy calls and days come get it - cash for cars 'dealers' were offering him $50 or to haul it free.
Sears 10" RAS and 'bad bearing' 10" TS can be had a few a year for $40. I do always tell the guy how he can get $100 for the RAS, few want to bother.
If the deal is too good to be true and does not look like robbery items, will offer what is asked, e.g. - garage sale at multi-million $$ house, couple moving, selling off houshold items - heavy duty Werner fiberglass ladder - a 40 footer, was bought for $20 asked as the folks just wanted it gone NOW and nobody else had yet come by with a truck able to load it.
Pays to garage sale in richer neighborhoods, guy had a 4HP ingersol compressor sitting on the drive, no price on it, said it don't run. Asked the price, guy said to please just haul it off, so I did - loose wire nut was all that was wrong - went back and told the guy, he says not worth it to him to have tried to have anybody fix it.
I've read a number of your posts and would love to see what could only be described as an amazing array of assorted tools, vehicles and equipment stashed at your place.
I'm stuck in Brest, FR this week (more problems trying to get the last few pieces of equiment qualified for 787 first flight) and gotta spend the first 2 weeks of May in UK, but will take some pix of the 'back yard' and do a post when I have time. There is a post in the archives with pix of about 12 of my 'sheds' ...... have another 200 sq ft 'no-permit needed' shed in the works...
We had a missing child in the neighborhood (3 houses away) last week, helicopter and all out searching - turns out there just was a misunderstanding and the kid never got picked up from school, school district called local police vs. county sherrif wher kid lives about no pickup.
Anyway, DW had me haul off about 10 old cars last year when scrap prices were $200/ton, thought I gotten most. We did a thorough search of the back yard last week along with a couple of the other neighbors and a their dog, just in case a cougar or something dragged the kid off -
every story has a 'silver lining' - since the blackberries are not in full bloom yet, found a '65 datsun I forgot I had <G>
PS: I'm just outside Renton above Maple valley highway, if you are in the area sometime drop by and take a 'tour" <G>
Edited 4/20/2009 4:30 pm ET by junkhound
DW had me haul off about 10 old cars last year when scrap prices were $200/ton, thought I gotten most
found a '65 datsun I forgot I had
That's funny!
Look on eBay for the item, that will give you some idea of its value.