Replies

1. 
   hammer1 | Sep 21, 2004 05:34am | #1

   I'm sure you have read the user tips with this product. The substrate is important and I've never tried to veneer 1/4" luan if that is what you have. Contact cement can be applied with a brush or roller, not only with spray. Contact is available non flammable. Did you contact the supplier? I'd try a practice piece first.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   davidmeiland | Sep 21, 2004 07:26am | #2

   Spraying will get you the flattest application of contact cement. Why not mask the surrounding finishes off with blue tape and painter's plastic and use 3M90 or similar?

1. 
   Bruce | Sep 21, 2004 04:32pm | #3

   "Surrounding finishes" means most of the house ... hardwood floors, granite slabs, lots of windows.  Totally impractical and, given that I would also have to somehow acquire and learn how to use the spray equipment, not really a possibility.  It comes down to what's the best roller type, rollable glue, sequence, possible slip sheeting, etc?The High Desert Group LLC

1. 
   davidmeiland | Sep 22, 2004 03:00am | #13

   Bruce, 3M90 comes in a can and has virtually no overspray. You could easily do what you want with it or a similar product, and only mask the adjacent surfaces within a few inches. I've used it indoors in finished homes during remodels many times. You're imagining huge clouds of explosive glue and vapor wafting thru all of the rooms... ain't gonna happen.

1. 
   Bruce | Sep 22, 2004 06:48am | #14

   OK, I'm getting the picture now, spray adhesive in an aerosol can.  What kind of coverage do you get?  I'm talking about 70 sq. ft. of veneer, and I see that the stuff goes for a small fortune.  If I buy it locally, we're talking full retail.The High Desert Group LLC

1. 
   davidmeiland | Sep 22, 2004 08:12am | #15

   I guess you'd need a few cans... but foot or foot it can't be a whole lot more than the liquid. I'd try some experiments in the shop first.

2. 
   billyg | Sep 22, 2004 06:19pm | #16

   Don't forget to use a wooden veneer roller to press it down tight.  Don't use a J-roller.

   Billy

3. 
   BArnold | Sep 21, 2004 04:50pm | #4

   Bruce,

   My comments may get raised eyebrows, but I've seen it work in a commercial shop.

   We had to veneer the curved back of a settee for a motor yacht.  The assembly was impractical to vacuum bag.  Overall size was about 10' long and 2' high.  The adhesive used is Titbond I.  The assembly was marked for a full 48" width of veneer centered side-to-side; the two side pieces were cut to grain match.

   Glue was rolled onto both the substrate and the back of the veneer and allowed to dry to the point it was transparent but not completely dry.  Next, another coat of glue was rolled onto the substrate one section at a time and allowed to partially dry -- this coat has to be partly liquid.  The center section was then matched to its marks and rubbed onto the glued substrate with hardwood burnishing tools (cherry with a rounded end and a handle).  The end sections were attached in the same manner.

   Regards,

   Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

   ---

4. 
   parrothead | Sep 21, 2004 04:57pm | #5

   Bruce, you might take a look at pressure sensitive veneers. Here is a link for some that Rockler carries.

   http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=2213

   We are the people our parents warned us about. J. Buffett
5. 
   PeterJ | Sep 21, 2004 05:48pm | #6

   If I had to use contact ...3M 30-NF, fine nap roller.

   Strips of laminate, welding rod or dowel as slip. Maybe taped on outside of glued area to keep vertical.

   BArnold has an interesting suggestion. I've used a similar technique, but replaced the burnisher with a clothes iron on entire surface. Best to practice first but can work really well.

   Id skip the self adhesive veneer, it's temporary at best.

   PJ

    

    Whatever you can do or dream you can,

   Begin it

   Boldness has genius, power  and magic in it.                           Goethe

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 22, 2004 01:14am | #10

   "I've used a similar technique, but replaced the burnisher with a clothes iron on entire surface."

   Peter,

   My oops!  Failed to mention this was a concave surface, difficult to use an iron.  Had it been a convex structure, we would have used an iron to supply pressure and heat.

   Regards,

   Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

6. 
   aleae | Sep 21, 2004 05:56pm | #7

   i've never used this product, but it seems to me that the best method of attachment would be glue and clamp.  troiuble is, you probably have no good way to evenly clamp the curved surface of your fronts.  if your 'sanded 1/4 inch' substrate is veneer core plywood, you are adhering to a less than optimal substrate.  try this thought, if you can spare a 1/4 inch.  down in the shop, set up a couple of quick jigs of slightly smaller radius to your cabinet fronts.  glue and clamp two sheets of 1/8 inch mdf together using the jigs to establish the curve.  when this sets up, the sheets will hold their curve.  after checking for fit, you can glue up the veneer to this new substrate down in the shop, then attach the whole assembly at once with titebond, clamps, and brads.  the slightly smaller radius will ensure a snug fit, with much more control and less mess.  you'll have to fill the brad holes.

7. 
   billyg | Sep 21, 2004 10:16pm | #8

   There is installation info on the manufacturer's website.  Go there first.  Call them and ask for advice -- it's their product and they know best.

    

   Installation guide:

   http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/tips/oakwood.pdf

    

   PVA glue method:

   http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/tips/ironon.html

    

   Or get yourself over to Constantines:

    

   Tools (you WILL need a veneer roller):

   http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=104

    

   Adhesives (but you will find a better selection elsewhere.  While I like to use solvent-based contact cement, you should be fine with the latex version.  Use two thin coats on your substrate.  See the current FHB article on building laminate counters.)

   http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=3

    

   There's lots of info on veneering here, but it sounds like what you need is quick advice to finish a job:

   http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=199

    

   Billy
1. 
   Sphere | Sep 21, 2004 11:33pm | #9

   don't use contact cement, period.

   yellow or white glue, put it on with a paint roller. Make a caul from more bendy ply wood, use strap clamps or what ever you can cobble up (even reverse radii cut out 2x12's)  a few well placed pins, out of sight.

   Contact will bubble on ya..garunteed..I have a vacuum set up, and from the MANU. it says in BOLD   "DO NOT USE CONTACT CEMENT FOR VENEERING!!!" 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

1. 
   billyg | Sep 22, 2004 01:22am | #11

   Hi Sphere,

   I agree with you that white or yellow glue is the best way to attach veneer, but I don't agree that a contact cement job will definitely bubble up.  I have some large loudspeakers that I built 20 years ago, and I veneered them using solvent-based contact cement and teak veneer.  Teak is an oily wood, but the veneer shows no signs of bubbling after 20 years and many climate changes (and with lots of different music :-) ).

   Anyway, the manufacturer's installation guide states that white/yellow glue is best but that a high solids solvent based contact cement can be used.

   http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/tips/oakwood.pdf

   I will back away from the recommendation on latex based contact cement on a luan substrate.  I haven't found it to be as good as the solvent based cement.

   In all fairness, my speakers were built from MDF which is a good substrate, and it sounds like the bar substrate is luan, which is much less stable.  Plus it is curved so there is likely to be more stress.

   One of the the beauties of a vacuum setup is that you can glue irregular and curved shapes easily.  But I wouldn't use it for contact cement either.

   Billy

   Edited 9/21/2004 6:24 pm ET by Billy

1. 
   Sphere | Sep 22, 2004 01:31am | #12

   I remember that the reasoning behind the NO CC  statement is that in SOME cases,  a solvent based finish can penetrate the veneer and loosen it's bond.  Probably just them CYA's. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.