I just read several posts on wood stoves which were very interesting and informative however I have a particular problem so I decided to start a new discussion to try and deal with it.
I have a VC Encore stove that will be 3 years old this fall. I live just outside Buffalo NY and it can be brutal over the winter months. I have a 3k sq ft house that is open from one end to the other excetp for the area that houses the bedrooms etc. There is a loft above this area. Also the house is a mere 3 years old. When I built the house I installed radiant floor heating but because of the vast open area I also installed a wood stove. The Encore works great and in fact it heats the entire house with a little weakness in the bedroom areas due to circulation. The radiant system takes care of that. Now my problem.
I have been through 2 converters in two years and through misinformation from the firm I purchased the stove, the housing for the converter was also damaged and I had to purchase a second one. The dealer no longer has the franchise to sell VC stoves. I wonder why? The last time I asked for assistance he told me to simply remove the entire front of the stove and it would just slip in. Need I say more. My delima is how to install it. I am not what one would call a neophite in these matters. This is my second VC stove and I currently burn a stove in my shop as well as one in my cottage in northern Canada. The latter being about 100 years old. I might mention that the stove in my shop is a Majestic that cost me about 300 bucks, a lot different than the 2400 I paid for the Encore. It burns like a champ and the doors are always clear. Not the case with the Encore and to add to my woes, the door gaskets went to hell. Since Majestic bought VC it seems that all service has gone by the wayside.
I have called Majestic for assistance on several occassions, all to no avail. I even spoke with a district sales mgr who promised I would hear from someone who would help me. I am sure you can surmise the answer to that one. I have also called every dealer in the area and it seems that no one wants to touch the situation.” PATHETIC”.
Several years ago I was thinking about relocating to the far northeast. A” head hunter” from California called me to see if I would be interested in going to Vermont for an interview with VC for the firms customer service mgr. I had already taken a position with another firm so I declined. The very next day while reading the Wall Street Journal I came across an in depth article about the firm. It detailed the company’s success and how two engineers had developed their line of stoves based on an old European theory of wood heaters. The article emphasized what a great place it was to work. No ties etc. and such a very relaxed atomosphere to operate in. In retrospect, I wonder if I did not make a mistake. As everyone is aware, this is not the first time where BIG BUCKS have taken over a small successful firm, modified it, and in turn destroyed it while keeping the original logal.
Believe me, I am not looking for any freebies, just honest service and advice. Aparently since Majestic assumed VC there is a great void in the service area. Something no firm can be complacent with in this day and age. I believe that I should not have to go through this type of agrivation to obtain service. Right now I wouldnt reccomend a product from Majestic to anyone. Living in the country and considering the upcoming cost of natural gas many people are considering the wood alteranitive. I have spoken to many.
I would like to add that my post in no way should reflect on Breaktime. This is my opinion such as it may be. Breaktime may choose not to post it. I accept that.
To get back to my original problem, Does anyone know how to insert the housing for the converter in the Encore?
Mike
Edited 10/13/2005 7:07 pm ET by Satch
Replies
Mike, I have a VC Intrepid II, catalytic, yer scarin' me!...I was given this stove, but there is a great dealer here. I'll bet if you call during the week in the morning, and not collect<G>, they'd help you out.
http://www.fireplaceeditions.com/
Hey, if they help, maybe mention it here.
BiteMe
Thanks for the reply. I thought I lost everything when trying to use the spell checker. I dont post very often so I am a bit confused on the techs of the process. Aparently my note made the site but I have a problem bringing it back up. Somehow I connected with you. I sure hope there are others who see it and reply and I also hope I can bring the comments to the screen. 5 years ago when in the planning process of my home I posted a technical problem . Before I ended it there were 537 replies. It was wild and there were many personal and character atack responses as to the qualifications of the responders were. In short it became very vicious which was sad. This site is not for that. The webmaster had to intervene on a few ocassions. I was and and still am proud of being one of the 3 STOOGES. You can take it from there.
I am definately going to take note of the info you sent me and I thank you for your comments. I hope there are others, all I have to do is find them. I just bang these things out without thought of spelling or diction concerns, thinking the spell checker can correct them. Thats where I get into trouble. This time I am going to just post it and hope for the best. Well, here goes it.
Mike
Well...Followed Satch's "hint" on the three stooges thread. Only read part way thru, unbelievable. Will finish when I have a couple hours to kill.Kinda glad Taunton has changed the rules, that's bloody, x-rated material!Is Joe Fusco still around? Think I recognize the name from JLC board but not here. Curious...ToddEdit: Oops, sorry for the highjack, no offense intended.
Edited 10/14/2005 1:27 pm ET by todd
Todd, Just to get off topic for a moment. You are probably one of the few who remember that scenerio. I see you remember Joe. In the end, Ken Drake really gave me a lot of good advice that worked out just great.
Mike.
I have a 1979 version of a Resolute that still works fine. I rep[laced the fire irons about 10 years ago and they should last 3-5 years more.
A former employee and friend (now a certified fulltime master wood stove installer + sweep) tells me he's seen the quality of VC products go down in the last 5-7 years.
Yikes!! I installed a VC for a friend last year (I'm a certified master also but don't work in it fulltime)
Majestic just about went belly up last year and are virtually controlled by their largest stockholder- the Ontario Teachers' Union pension fund. AAAHHH!! Capitalism at its best!!!!!!! Hope they have some good turnaround people!!!
Good Luck on your problem.
In Arkansas we are often told to omit them when new .
I have had two cats and they dont function well. I ended taking one out and the other one I busted out . [the ceramic]
Gasket material you can buy at any "real" hardware store , not a stupid chain store.
I would not have been bothered in the least with your poroblem.
Tim
Mooney,
You are right, changing the cat is simple. All I did was remove the back plate and the fiber cover and it came right out. My problem is with the entire housing that the cat sits in. Right now I have none in the stove and was concerned if eventually it would damage the unit. when I tried to insert the housing it was too tall to slide up into place. As posted, I agree that the cats arent worth a dam. They seem to disinigrate after a seasons use. At least the two I had did and I saw a third that also did. The theory is great,ie, reburning the gases in a secondary burn. However I am really starting to have doubts about the overall quality of the product.
My main bitch is that I am unable to get any assistance from Majestic. Absolutley no one will talk to me. Their HQ is just a short distance into Canada from where I live. I would even be willing to drive up there if I could find someone who would talk to me. Such is life in the stove world. With the demand for wood burners off the wall this year I can only imagine what the quality is for those coming off the line today
Mike
Edited 10/14/2005 10:25 am ET by Satch
To change the cat is actually pretty easy on your stove. You need to go in from the rear. I can't recall specifically how to do it, only that it was pretty simple. The owners manual covered it pretty well.
FYI-Vermont Castings has been purchased by Majestic. With the transition, I have not heard a single good thing about the company. Your problem, unfortunately is quite typical.
Certified boat fetish.
Satch,
I read your post with great interest, as I bought an Encore 3 years ago (this is actually its fourth winter).
The Encore is my only source of heat (aside from the sun) so I've studied it thoroughly and keep everything in prime shape.
Let me see if I can answer your initial question about the material that houses the catalytic combustor. This is called the "refractory assembly" and is that delicate white stuff that the combustor sits in. Look at the exploded drawing in your manual (if you don't have it, download it here: http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/support/manuals.cfm?browse=product&productid=137). I assume you have the 2550 model? It should say on the back.
There are 2 parts, the refractory assembly, which is the big part that holds the combustor, and the refractory access panel, which is the part that fits snugly next to the front-facing side of the combustor (this is the piece you have to take out when removing the combustor). The assembly is held in by 4 screws around the perimeter. It shouldn't be a big deal to remove the old and install a new one--just handle it with kid gloves and screw it by hand gently. You will need to remove the fireback first (very easy--just tap out the two wedges on either side and gently lift it out). You can order a new refractory assembly from any Vermont Castings dealer (one option since your local dealer is gone is to order it online, for example, $120 from this shop in Connecticut: http://blackswanhome.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=7_8_12&products_id=140&osCsid=161d5b76e7cfee02309351e940f1058a)
Maybe you're not comfortable digging into your stove like this--but if you're the least bit mechanically inclined it's pretty straightforward.
By the way, I, too ruined a combustor after 2 years--appeared to be flame impinging on it. Not bad, but enough that I asked VC to replace it (did this through a local dealer, and to their credit VC sent a prorated new one--charged me $60 or something). Why did it happen? Most likely moderate overfiring, although I was operating the stove strictly within the guidelines specified in the manual. Since that happened I've been a little more cautious by not filling the firebox too much when the catalyst is engaged (for the most part).
Most often, premature catalyst failure is caused by overfiring. You definitely have to pay close attention and really learn how your stove runs. It's like a living, breathing being that responds subtly to your touch. It took me a couple seasons to really get intimate with my stove.
As for VC's lousy customer service, I'm really sorry to hear that they haven't responded well to you. And I don't understand why another dealer won't help you out--just because you didn't by the stove there isn't a good reason to leave you out in the cold. I understand from my local dealer that the company is going through some rough transitions just now.
As for the gaskets on the doors, I'd suggest ordering a complete Encore gasket kit when you order your refractory assembly. This includes everything you need to change all the gaskets (I just changed all of mine--after 3 years, not a bad idea--the doors and griddletop maybe even every other year, depending on how often you burn).
I hope this is useful for you. I really like the stove--but you have to maintain it, get to know it, operate it correctly, use good dry wood, etc. or you will have problems. Properly cared for, the catalyst should last 6 years or so. Admittedly it's not great having to spend $200 on a new one every 6 years, but on the other hand the combustor adds tremendous efficiency and keeps the emissions way down.
Good luck--let me know how you make out.
Edited 10/15/2005 11:40 pm ET by Megunticook
Edited 10/15/2005 11:46 pm ET by Megunticook
just curious - was it Sam S. that helped you?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sam be the man. He was very cool about it even though he didn't sell me the stove (got it from a local contractor's brother-in-law who works at the factory in Vermont).Interestingly, he was really going for the gas-fired market hard since that had been growing by leaps and bounds, but this fall people are beating his door down asking for wood burners. With the price of propane these days it's no wonder.
Thanks for the link to the product manuals. I have a Vigilant I bought in 1982. Haven't seen the manual for it in years. Other than a warped fireback I really haven't had any problems with my stove. It just keeps putting out the heat.I am sorry to hear that customer service at VC has gone by the wayside, it used to be excellent. That was one of the primary reasons why we bought the stove in the first place.
Did VC have manuals that old online? Handy thing to have.Vigilant really cranks out the heat, doesn't it? I thought about it briefly for my home but I would've been opening up windows! Actually, a local dealer (not Sam Smith) advised me to get the Vigilant, saying the Encore was too small for my space (about 1900 square feet). He was wrong.
Guys, thanks for the feedback. Now I at least seem to be getting somewhere. If those 4 screws will open the area for the refractory to be inserted I will forever be greatful. I have opened up the entire guts of the unit and another thing I found was that the cable that controls the air flow for the secondary combustion chamber was so loose that the coiled thermostat could have retracted into a solid piece and would still not had any effect on the damper located on the rear bottom back of the unit. This could have been a cause of excessive heat and the failure of the cats. Removing and reinstalling the rear fire wall was the main cause of damaging the refractory. I had to chip away some cement to remove and again to reinstall it. While doing this I hit the refractory and damaged it. Finaly I decided to just remove it thinking I could just pop another in. Very poor initial construction in my opinion. That dam thing is heavy and hard to manipulate to say the least.
I installed 2800 sq ft of in floor radiant heating in my house. It took me 5 months but works just great but can be a bit pricy to operate in my situation. The house is post and beam and is open from one end to the other. The Encore heats the entire place in the cold months. I just dont want to damage it by operating it in a different maner than it was designed for.
To say that Majestic has problems is an understatement at the least. That seems to be the overal consesus from the feedback I have received and it is not just a local issue. I dont know exactly what the coverage of Breaktime is but I do know that it is vast and I am sure your replies have come from just about everywhere in the US and Canada. That alone is a pretty strong mandate the company has to address, or face ultimate failure. VC was once unquestionably the best, but in my opinion it is no longer. I often wonder how many people there are out there who are facing similar situations and have nowhere to go.
Just to let up on VC for a moment I want to say I love the stove and it seems to do a great job as far as the BTU issue goes. BUT, it is not operating in the manner it was designed and I dont want to wake up some day and find I am faced with a useless mass of cast iron as a result of negligence on my part. If you reread my first post, I dont consider myself a "neophyte" in wood burners. I operate 3 of them, one over 100 years old and have had no problems other than with the VC.
So for the moment , lets see what happens. I sure am going to look for those 4 screws.
Mike
Mike,I might have misunderstood your earlier post--I thought you were still trying to remove the refractory assembly, but it sounds like you already have and the issue is getting the new one in. In which case my advice about those screws doesn't really apply. Hope I didn't get your hopes up for nothing. It was pretty late when I wrote that and I'd had a 14 hour day of firefighter training (in other words, I was completely fried!)I'm sure there's a solution. I'll check in with my local dealer (I'm in Maine) and see what they say about getting that piece in. I have to talk to them anyhow about a part I ordered.Any luck getting that gasket kit?The Encore is a little fussy, but my experience is that once you get a feel for it the thing's really reliable.Let us know how you make out.Ed
Ed, thanks for all your help. You are right, I have the old one out and my problem is how to get the new one in. I think our last two posts have crossed. will be in touch.
Mike
Ed,
Did you ever get a chance to talk to your dealer in refrence to my Refractory housing installation?
Mike
No, we traded messages last week. But I have to pick up a part (refractory access cover, as a matter of fact) on Monday and I'll ask then.
Talked to my dealer--she was a little hazy on the procedure (it had been a few years since she did one) but recalled that it involved taking fireback out, the sideplates off and then the bottom grate out. Then the refractory assembly can be carefully fit in.Make sense? Sounds like a long afternoon project!
Thanks for your input. I have previously done everything you mentioned except take the grate out.Today I also thought of that and did so. I have to replace the secondary air probe so I didnt try to replace the refractory till that is done which should be this weekend. That seems to be the only possible answer other than take the stove apart. While rereading the instructions for the umpteenth time I found contradictory instructions on where the air controll handle should be for a low, med or hot burn. The illustration is completely opposite the writen text. I remember I found this when I first got the stove but forgot about it till now. I guess technical comprehension is so very important. I wonder how many people got stung with this one.
Ill let you know how I make out.
Mike
Well you're certainly getting downright intimate with your stove! That's a good thing, as the more you know what makes it tick the better you'll be able to operate it with finesse.You're sure right about the documentation. I too was thrown by the mistake in the manual regarding the air intake. You'd think they'd have taken the time to fix that.When I sent back my original combustor because of what looked like flame impingement (the honeycomb was starting to disintegrate around the center area of the combustor), I wrote a letter explaining that I'd followed the manual instructions to a T (I've probably read the thing a dozen times through) so felt that having the combustor deteriorate after only 2 seasons was a warranty issue. My local dealer said she thought the manual was inaccurate in the temperature guidelines for safe operation--her opinion is that after closing the damper and letting the combustor "light off" at a fairly high temp., the stove should then be run with a griddletop temp. of 300-500 and not much more. But the manual says 450 minimum for the catalyst and up to 700 is safe. I often ran at 600 or so those first 2 years, as that seemed to be the temperature the stove liked to level off at for long-term burns. Now I tend to be a little more conservative, more like 450-575. But I think in my case the issue may have just been loading up the firebox too much, having a strong draft going, and having flames get sucked too far under the "hood" shielding the combustor. I had a chat with a pretty knowledgeable V.C. rep. on the phone who explained that he saw instances where people crammed the firebox full of wood and the stoves weren't designed for that (of course you wouldn't know it from reading the manual). I've seen some stoves where people overfired them to the point of warping the cast iron plates.For all the company's shortcomings (which seem to be worse lately), I still think the Encore is a terrific product and I think the combustor technology has a lot of benefits. Somebody should write a definitive guide to the Encore--would be very useful!Keep us posted on how you make out. Bet you're ready to start using the thing by now!
Ed, I just wrote you a detailed post on the Encore. Somehow I pressed a wrong key and lost everything. Too frustrated now to do it over at this time. Be back to you in a day or so.
Mike
Dang. . .hate it when that happens. I hope the news was good. Give me the report when you have a minute.
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ED, I have been having a terrible time getting on the site when I have time to write. Here is the scoop on the Encore.
As I mentioned before I found a new dealer in the area last year however when I contacted him he said they were too new to undertake my project. I again contacted him a couple of montha ago and to my amzement they were doing a total rebuild on an Encore that was just a year old. It seems the screw that holds the secondary damper in place was missing and the damper was just dangeling there. This meant the secondary chamber was burning full bore at all times. After a lot of conversation this is what we came up with.
After the fire back and the sides were removed there is an additional step necessary to get access so the refractory can be replaced. There are two screws on the upper outside back of the stove. They secure the upper firebrick. After removing them I thought the firebrick would just drop out. However much to my dismay I found the part was slso cemented in place. After about 45minutes of chipping and tapping it finally came loose and there was this big cavity into which I merely sat the refractory unit. Reassembly was something else. I had to clean off all the old cement and recement it before I could even attempt to reset the upper firebrick. It took two of us to do this. Alignment of the bolts was especially difficult. It is all back together now with 2 new thermostats as well as a new refractory and converter. All in all it cost me about 450 bucks and a lot of frustration. When the secondary burn kicks in I get a nice even red burn in the main chamber. I presume this is how it should be.
I completely agree with the burn info you provided. You cant overload the unit and you have to be careful not to block the air flow to the extent that the flames become captive and discharge under the hood when in the primary burn mode. From all the input I have received I came to the conclusion that you could load it to the top and leave it with the internal thermostats taking over. However in reality this does not seem to be the case. My stove is in a corner and there is no way I can get behind it to see if the internal thermo kicks in as needed. I have my doubts about this function. As you mentioned the unit seems to level off at about 600 degrees in the secondary mode. This is well within the specs in the manual which is very confusing at the least. I dont start the second burn till I reach about 600 on my external thermo. This is because my wood is a bit damp. At 600 you can burn just about anything.
I disagree with the gent from Arkansas who mentioned that down there they are advised at times to remove the converter. Why would anyone want to spend about 2500 for a stove and then remove the main feature of the unit. I dont understand how one of these units would be functional in a room with 8 ft ceilings unless you burn one log at a time. My home is completely open at one end and the ridge beam is about 20 ft high. About 1200 Sq ft. At the other end there is an open loft with about 900 sq ft. Under the loft there is another 1200 ft that houses the bedrooms etc. That is a lot of area and the stove does it all. In a flash it can be 75 downstairs and almost unbearable in the loft. I often have to open the window in the loft. The bedrooms level off at 65-68 degrees. It is a new home I built and is very tight with a r-52 in the ceilings. I used 10 inch thermo panels for the roof. I live in the country in the Buffalo NY area. In a smaller more enclosed home, where would all these btu's go?
Now that everything is working again I am very pleased with the stove. They have a real learning curve tho and are not for everyone. The one problem that seems to remain is that there in no definitive manual on how to properly operate them. It seems to be experience through trial and error.
I hope this info is healpful to the Encore users out there.
Mike
Glad you got everything back together again. Sounds like it wasn't a lot of fun!Just to clarify, when I mentioned flames getting up under the hood and potentially impinging on the catalyst, I meant when the damper is closed. I haven't seen this happen with the damper open, since the heat and gases are venting out through the wide open damper.Like yours, my house is also extremely well-insulated. After some research I decided to install a direct outside air inlet to the stove (VC sells a special fitting for this) so the stove doesn't create any negative pressure in the house interior (also, a fire like that consumes a lot of oxygen and can start to lower the oxygen level in a tight house). While the outside air supply for tight homes is accepted wisdom in most circles, with a lot of supporting research, there's a number of people who don't agree with it (a local VC dealer even warned me about the possibility of a house fire from a downdraft reversing the airflow so that flame is directed out the intake--I have not been able to find a single case of this happening anywhere, though, and intuitively it seems highly unlikely).I agree that the thing can overheat the space if you're not careful. We generally close bedroom doors upstairs. Personally I don't mind hanging out in short sleeves downstairs when it's -10 outside--especially when I know it's not costing my anything!So how often do you take off the doors and use the screen? It makes for nice atmosphere, although a lot less efficient! I've only done it 3-4 times in the 3 years I've had the thing.Anyway, enjoy the stove! Hope you can get a good supply of dry wood for next year...makes all the difference.
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Ed,
Thanks for the reply. What I meant about flames getting under the hood has happened to me a couple of times when I aparently overloaded the stove to the point where the fuel acts like a damper. I was alerted to this when I heard a roaring sound like a blowtorch. When I raised the lid I found a real barn burner at the bottom back of the chamber and it was discharging under the hood and through the converter. and in fact the hood was cherry red. This in my opinion was due to having damp wood stacked tightly in the chamber and in turn there was not sufficient air flow up through the main damper. Once I rearanged the wood everything immediately settled down. I am very careful now how I load the stove. I am very aware of the importance of dry wood. I have a bit from last year and one can really see the difference when I use it. As in my case I am very sure the reason for damp wood is procrastination. Who wants to think about firewood in the middle of July.
Keep me posted if you come across any more info about these little jewels.
Mike
Ed,
Another question you mentioned was about the doors and screen. I use the screen quite often, especially when it starts to get too warm . The asthetics are just beautiful. I have never seen another stove that provides that kind of charm.
Mike
Just saw that VC has come out this year with a non-catalytic version of the eEncore. It has some other secondary combustion technology called "Everburn." I'm curious about the specifics, but of course their website doesn't seem to say much except the usual "new! improved!" stuff.Did note in the specs. that the new version has less than half the EPA emissions rating (.7 g/hr. vs. 1.6 g/hr.). But the catalytic Encore is more efficient (76% vs. 70%). You heard anything about this?
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Ed,
No I have not heard anything, however when I was at the dealer recently I did see something and found out another. It seems that the Defiant stove is going to be discontinued. With the BTU's the Encore puts out who really would want a Defiant unless they were trying to heat an arena. The second thing is that when I was there I looked at some of the VC stoves on display. I dont recall the particular models however the interior of a couple of the fire boxes was completely different than ours. Possibly this is what you were talking about?
The converter system has been around for a long time now and in a way it is somewhat of a pain in the neck to control and maintain, especially considering what I went through. The use and learning curve is too vast in my opinion. Maybe it is time for a change but as you mentioned, our stove is still more efficient providing it is operated efficiently. I am sure with the return to wood stoves the EPA will once again become more involved in emissions from these stoves. Isnt that the reason why VC became so popular in the first place a long time ago?
Keep me posted as will I
Mike
Megunticook, [thats one hell of a handle, where did it come from?]
After I signed off last hour I began to recall the 4 screws you mentioned and looked at the replacement unit I have had for 1 1/2 years.The housing I now have has 3 screws holding the face plate to the body but it is also cemented in place and if I removed the screws and tried to separate it I would probably destroy the unit. [I dont mean the cover to the cat itself.] This thing just seems to get more complicated every minute but if there is anyplace I can solve my problem, its here.
Just to refresh those that are interested, my problem is how to slip the refractory unit into the cavity that houses it. It is just too tall and the one solution I have thought of for some time is to pull the fire grate so I can drop it down and slip it up and in place. However I am not to enthused about that idea as the schematic doesn't show any way of removing it other than chip the cement away. I had enough problems with that scenario when I removed the back plate just to clean the stove. Another thought was to cut the refractory unit in half with a band saw and put it in place as two separate pieces?
I guess my topic is starting to narrow down in interest to VC enthusiasts. I think, no matter what the ultimate outcome may be, we will all learn something about this subject and especially the value of Breaktime.
One thing I am going to do is make a copy of all the posts, with all names removed with the exception of myself, and send it to Majestic/ VC. This just might help to give them a sense of what their responsibility is to the public. Probably not tho. Thats why I left BIG BUSINESS 25 years ago.
Look forward to hearing from you!
Mike
old thread on VC wood burner
new to this forum but doing some research. too bad about VC. I have had 2 enchores. one non cat one cat. both have been very good stoves. on the cat stove, I replaced the refractory twice, cat 4 times, upper fireback once in the 22 years of burnig. primary heater in 2500 sq ft house. far nor cal. lower teens in winter is normal. 3-4 cords/year dry season hardwood -oak.
the refractory comes out the top- no probelm. lower fireback out, two side panels out. stove top out (one screw in center front, two nuts on studs ether side in upper corners- off she comes. then, two 1/4 bolts off the upper rear housing(outside). these hold the upper fireback. out it comes. refractory lifts out. new one in. reverse assemply with cement and gaskets as needed. walla! with cleaning and reassemply- about two hours tops.
this is a very good (though finicky) stove. it take a little finess to operate. I have a tendency to over-fire from time to time. especially when stove is not up to temp (primary thermo has not heated yet) on first firing for year about first week of November. lack of patients on my part. not stove's fault. I love this thing. yes, it is espensive to maintain but as with much of the posts, you have some control with proper care/operation to minimize maint costs. Parts still seem to be easy to get. I would buy another VC (pre-majestic) anytime.
I forgot to to mension- this last time I replaced refractory, I installed two water heating coils. Works great!! these were installed on ether side of refractory where the metal heat shields are on side of the secondary burn chamber. -works awsome. family of six 100% DHW needs met. this heats 100gal water to 110-130 overnight-well stove burns all day around the clock actually. no noticable heat loss from stove as these hot gasses are on thier way up the flue when the heat is extracted from them. no loss of combustion efficiency in primary or secondary burn chamber. the heat is recovered from stream as it leaves the secondary burn chamber and exits the stove. Cooler flue temps yes. cooler stove -no. still only clean stove pipe once per year!!
these coils were custom made from SS tubing. operated in parallel and gravity fed (thermo-syphoned) to DHW storage tank. this was an idea I got servicing the stove over the years and finally got to put it togetehr. It does requier drilling 4 holes (two for each water coil) into the back of the stove for the 3/4 piping to enter/exit this "hot-spot" in the stove. sealed with gasketed locknuts no leaks. still an airtight stove.
I figured this mod cost me about 150 bucks and saves me about 400-500 bucks per year in propane. I already had the passive solar for DHW so it was simple to tie this in. -These soon to be teenage girls use a lot of hot water!!
Not meaning to be snippy, but do you realize that until you posted your message, this thread was over six years old? The people involved in the tread have likely moved on. Better to start a new one.