What’s your preference, assuming that the building doesn’t fit at my standard of 24 x 36 @ 1/4″:1′:
Bigger Paper: Arch E (36 x 48) @ 1/4″:1′
Smaller Scale: Arch D (24 x 36) @ 1/8″:1′
Awkward-er Scale: Arch D (24 x 36) @ 3/16″:1′
Thanks.
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Replies
My vote would be for the 3/16 scale. The unusual scale isn't a big deal for me.
I definitely wouldn't want 36X48 paper. Just doesn't fit on my desk, and definitely doesn't fit in my plan cabinets. Hard to carry and/or work with.
And the 1/8" scale is small enough that I don't like working from it.
Although actually having a scaled drawing would be better 'n some of the prints I work from. (-:
cloud, I actually prefer 11 x 17 though it's not listed as an option. Makes it easy to carry and lay down in a crowded workspace, with scales set from 1:10 to 1:50. I have to work in metric sometimes, dagnabbit.
36X48?
hmmm - - where do you get dinner napkins that big?
Chucky Cheese?
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I`m with Boss.....3/16" is a comfortable scale......1/4" would be nice, but them pages are just too big....1/8" aint terrible though.
ATTENTION FELLOW BREAKTIME MEMBERS:
If you`d like to discuss topics other than home building, come on down to the Woodshed Tavern. Great bunch of guys and gals letting off a little steam about everything and anything. Its not a special club, but.....as of Monday, March 14, the Tavern folder will go behind an access wall. Only those who request access to this folder by contacting [email protected] will be able to view and participate in discussions there.
I use 24x36" for main sheets and a separate 11x17" B-Size for all details. This works great since you can have your main sheet open and look at details at the same time. B-Size is inexpensive if you have a large laser and can be photocopied at regular office repro houses. I hate flipping a stack of sheets back and forth to see how the detail integrates.
If the structure's too big to fit at typical scale on that paper, do you use larger paper or smaller scale or something else? And do you choose a scale that'll be easy to measure with a tape on-site (sure, I dimension everything, but someone always pulls a tape to draw something or measure something else) or not worry about that?
Jim,
can't you just tape an uninflated ballon to the paper, and have them blow it up when they want to see what it looks like?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I'd definately prefer 1/4":1'. It's what those of us out in the mud and the blood are most used to seeeing. There will be many people, with varrying ammounts of caffiene in them, working off these plans - easy enough to measure with a tape measure and multiply when it's 1/4" scale, be a lot harder in 3/16". 1/8" is just too small for any accurate detailing.
I have a screw together tube of ABS I carry current plans around in, so paper size is just not that inconvienient.
My vote is for 1/4". No question about it.
I was gonna offer your line of reasoning, but figured I'd be accused of not properly dimensioning my drawings if a guy in the field has to pull out his tape. :)Seriously, I'm trying to be considerate of the builder. Honest! (But a builder hasn't yet been selected, so I gotta ask y'all as his proxy!)
easy enough to measure with a tape measure and multiply when it's 1/4" scale, be a lot harder in 3/16".
EXACTLY!!! Did you forget you were speaking to a designer? You just made the best argument for 3/16" in the entire thread! <G>
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
Yeah, I see your point. Maybe if I preferred 1/4" scale, I should ask for anything BUT, right? Kinda of like what David Doud told me about training pigs? "If you want them to go right, you herd them to the left" (or something like that).
"If the structure's too big to fit at typical scale on that paper, do you use larger paper or smaller scale or something else?"
Depends, but generally I will split the drawing into multiple sheets unless overall dimensions are required. In that case, I show a smaller scale drawing with overall dimensions and larger scale drawings with detailed dimensions.
"And do you choose a scale that'll be easy to measure with a tape on-site (sure, I dimension everything, but someone always pulls a tape to draw something or measure something else) or not worry about that?"
I put DO NOT SCALE DRAWING in my title block. Since I am the owner/designer/builder, I go back to the CAD file and plot a sheet with the needed dimensions or check the file on a laptop. I always use a standard scales, but not so someone can use their beat up tape measure to scale a dimension in the field. Remember, 1/8"=1' is 1:96. A print often shrinks 2% and you are lucky if a field dimension is within 1/32". Guessing at a dimension with a 100x error factor is not my idea of a good practice.
3/16" scale.. about the best trade off..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
What's your preference, assuming that the building doesn't fit at my standard of 24 x 36 @ 1/4":1':"
Cloud,
Just a cut and paste, and I had to send it to someone.......
IMO, despite the fact I can (at work) print up to 60" x infinte length prints, I prefer to work off a stack of "A" size (8.5" x 11") prints, when I work off of prints at all.
"The United States, Canada, and in part Mexico, are today the only industrialized nations in which the ISO standard paper sizes are not yet widely used. In U.S. office applications, the paper formats "Letter" (216 × 279 mm or 8.5"x11" ), "Legal" (216 × 356 mm or 8.5"X14"), "Executive" (190 × 254 mm or 7.5"X10"), "Ledger/Tabloid" (279 × 432 mm or 11"X17") and "Foolscap" (344X432 or 13.5"X17") are widely used today."
link:http://www.paperonweb.com/size.htm
Jon
Jim,
We prefer a 22"x34" sheet because it reduces proportionally for the 11x17" half sized sets. We sometimes do buildings that take up some real acreage. When that happens we do an overall plan at whatever scale is required to get it on a single sheet (just did one @ 1:480) and then break it down on several sheets of enlarged plans with match lines showing where the next area connects. Each match line is labeled with the drawing number that connects there.
Each enlarged plan also has a miniature drawing key in the lower right corner showing the outline of the entire building with the area covered on that plan shaded in. That way it's easy to get all the detail in there at the right scale without loosing your place in the overall scheme of things on any given sheet.
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
I've seen that, Kevin. In this case, instead of the building fitting at 1/4":1' on my normal 24x36, it'd need 26x36. For those two inches, I'd hate to end up with a multi-page set when one page would do it. With a slightly different page size or scale, I can keep the air form to one page, and the foundation to one, and the interior to one, and plumbing, hvac, electrical. This is soooooo close to fitting that I hate to bust it up. I think I'll do 3/16 and let the builder ask for different if they really want other.
Good plan - Now that I've read your dillema a little closer that's exactly what I would do. Make sure you practice your scowl just in case your builder mentions that it's difficult to scale that size in the field. <G>
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
Draw it ¼=1 on the oversize paper, but with a ¼x¼ light-gray grid printed in the background. Then photo-reduce it to fit on your 24x36 sheets when you have the copies made. Make sure the grid shows up faintly in the prints. Head each drawing with a large notice: One Box = 1 Sq. Ft.
That's the way I do all my hand-drawn plans. (Of course, I'm the builder, so I don't need the notice.) But now that I'm slowly converting to ACAD (I get outta practice each winter, dammit!) I've gotta remember how to scale those little boxes eggzakly the way I want 'em....
Think outside the 'Box'. (Ouch! Sorry...too tempting; I couldn't resist....)Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Actually, since you're doing domes, maybe you should use little circles instead o' little boxes....
(PAX! I'll stop!!)Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
"... but with a ¼x¼ light-gray grid printed in the background. "
You know, I got a print sorta like that once, and it was a mess.
The archy had drawn a 4' X 4' grid on the paper, and there were NO DIMENSIONS. Everything had to be counted and/or scaled.
Probably one of the worst ideas I've ever seen.
My wife says if I go fishing one more time, she's going to leave me. I'm going to miss her.
If there were no dimensions, I can understand how that would drive ya nuts. But I put the dimensions on, too.
For instance, every structural piece in a roof is calculated mathematically at the design phase, and the length, cut angle, and all that are put on the drawings. I can stand there at the chop saw with a pile of 2x behind me and the drawings pinned up on the wall in front of me and cut an entire roof without climbing a ladder once. Then I go put it together. Or, if there's more than one of us, by the time the cutting is finished, the roof is almost assembled. Works well.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
1:1
-zen
good for stairs and then art.
In large civil works we use 22 x 34 sheets so an 11 x 17 is an exact half-sized print (always include a bar scale). Scaling is tricky, so we supply the winning bidder with the electronic copies of the plans. The contractors can use these plans to generate shop drawings, staging plans, etc....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Cloud, I like 1/4" scale and 24x36" prints, but in a pinch 3/16" is fine too. The plans I'm drafting right now just barely don't make it onto D size at 1/4", so I'm doing them at 3/16". I like to include a little scale on the drawing title, especially for sizes other than 1/4". It makes it much easier for the guys in the field.
No way would I do what Dinosaur suggested, and label it one scale and reduce the size so it prints out at another scale. Surefire way to make the guys onsite VERY angry.
Mike
In my engineering office we most often do our CAD drawings at 22x34, but depending on the situation sometimes do them at 24x36. More and more often we also print a 11x17 set since they're handy to carry around. Anything bigger than 24x36 is a pain in the neck.
On drawings that are going to be reduced, instead of marking the drawing 1/4" = 1'-0" or whatever, we'll print a little scale right on the drawing. Also, sometimes we put a little one inch line on the drawing next to the title block with a note that has words to the effect of, "If this line is not one inch long the drawing has been reduced."
Edited 4/14/2005 9:13 pm ET by Stuart
"let the builder ask for different if they really want other."Yes, I was just thing that.There is really not need to cast this in stone or concrete <G>.Use the 3/16 and tell them for another 100 bucks they can have it to any scale they want.
Thought you might like to see this. I get about one print a week like this.
Absurdity, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. [Ambrose Bierce]
All THAT one is missing are the coffee stains.
Looks like a Frank Ghery plan. How do you make those sguiggly trusses anyway?
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
The thing that bugs me most about that drawing is where the guy put "Need Elev." in the upper right hand corner. Like he's too cheap to even have a floor plan drawn, but expects me to do an elevation and 3D drawing for him. For free, of course.I figure if he's not gonna put forth any effort, I'm not either. I do as little as I can get away with in situations like this.
You don't know what pressure is until you play for five bucks with only two in your pocket. [Lee Trevino]
I saw that request for elevation and assumed it was asking you to establish the elevation of wall top plate or something. You're telling me they wanted you to do an elevation drawing of the house?!
I think I would have designed something absolutely ludicrous and sent it back to them. I'm picturing a three gable structure with a tall tower sitting between the the first and second gable. Nothing like a clear and concise elevation drawing articulating your unique interpretation of their request for information. :-)>
Have you ever labled a drawing "Truss This!?"
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
"ou're telling me they wanted you to do an elevation drawing of the house?!"
Yup. And 3D perspectives.
I think a lot of folks assume we do truss design in AutoCAD, and can just kick out anything they want by hitting a couple of buttons.
"I think I would have designed something absolutely ludicrous and sent it back to them. "
Probably would have gotten me in trouble with the boss. I don't need any more trouble at the moment.
"Have you ever labled a drawing 'Truss This!?'"
No, but -
We often have areas in a layout that have to be stick framed in the field. I've often wanted to write "stick it" on my layouts.
(-:
Q: Did you hear about the cannibal who was expelled from school?
A: He was buttering up his teacher.
Yep - cakewalk...
Please pull up to the second window for your house design. Would you like a fly by animation with those fries?
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
"Would you like a fly by animation with those fries?"
Actually, we can do animated truss layout thingies in VRML. (Virtual Reality Modeling Language)
But none of our customers are set up with the software to view the files yet.
Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?
Industry standard for residential here is A3 ( 11x17) at 1:100. Although I wear readers, this size is OK for reading on site without them. We hate larger plans. Too unweildy and on the rare occassion we have to deal with a set of A0's we get them reduced to a more manageable size.
On a new site, first job is glue the floor plan and bracing plan to a piece of ply cut to same size ( one each side)
We rarely have to scale as our designers have been yelled at often enough that they now dimension fully.
regards
Mark
http://www.quittintime.com
I believe that both the 1/8" scale and larger paper with 1/4" scale appeal to us. We use the smaller scale for many of our subs. However construction detailing needs larger scale. So for the subs that need to look for details the bigger scale is appropriate. When we get to actual construction we provide both to the jobsite. Smaller drawings are more portable and can sometimes fit on 11" x 17" which allows us to copy in house.
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3/16ths is not that awkward and not uncommon. I always have a triangular architect scale on hand to verify dimensions. As long as the drawing or detail is labled with a specific scale then there is no problem. Anyone who has been using the plans and knows them well, will have a scale on hand to use if needed. Using a tape is more conveniant but if you can't fit the drawing on the page then I would understand. No problem.
Client gave me the name of the probably builder. I gave him the same choices as y'all, and his preference is...oops, phone's ringing...gotta get back to y'all later...###Later...builder requested 1/4":1'Looks like everyone has different preferences.
Edited 4/19/2005 6:49 am ET by Cloud Hidden