*
I have used the stamped steel 2×4 climbers for years.
About ten years ago, I sprung for the Procter jacks. I’ve never regetted it. So much safer and I’ll even use them when I have plenty of man power if there is any wind that may cause the wall to keep going right on over.
I’ve also used a pair of 2×8 nailed into a cross with a Procter jack as the third leg of the tripod to lift beams into place.
I’m always working with less help than I need on my jobs and the Procter jacks allow me to keep going.
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I have used the stamped steel 2x4 climbers for years.
About ten years ago, I sprung for the Procter jacks. I've never regetted it. So much safer and I'll even use them when I have plenty of man power if there is any wind that may cause the wall to keep going right on over.
I've also used a pair of 2x8 nailed into a cross with a Procter jack as the third leg of the tripod to lift beams into place.
I'm always working with less help than I need on my jobs and the Procter jacks allow me to keep going.
*
Man, there sure are a lot of Proctor fans around.
Mike - when you mentioned OSHA regulations were you talkin' about wall jacks, or scaffold jacks? I sure hope you meant scaffold jacks, 'cause this piece is about wall jacks, and I don't want to reccomend anything unsafe. Thanks - Jim
*......wall jack, pump jack .....scuse me!Procter Walljacks....used em for 40' walls, two guys, and standing up 28' gable ends with all the trim on for Cape Cods, did the tripod thing too, snapping lines and keeping the shoe on line before sheathing was the big trick , once it was sheathed, it was either right or not..setting center beams was cool, frame a 4 pc. 2x10 in the basement and lift it into place with the wall jack..great tool..
*Jimbo,Proctorp.com is proctor wall jacks if you havent already checked it out. Whats going on with this thread? Missing posts, says you posted this today???
*well, I first asked in "Tools". But then thought maybe I should give it a try out here too. Thanks though.
*We have been using the old cast pump style for a long time. We have even used the to lift glue lam beams in place. However they are seeing the wear and tear and we have been thinking of replaacing them before this seasons "rush". However here in Oregon the Proctors sell for almost triple the price of the old pumps. So I am interested in your final results but won't be able to wait until the magazine article comes out unless it is in next months. Are you getting other reports direct to your e-mail that so not appear here ? Sure looks like those that switch to proctors stay with them. Have you used them, maybe someone will loan you a pair. Ive never seen them around here or know anyone that has one to try.
*Well Josh, no one has said anything in private they haven't said here. But, I haven't read that folks have SWITCHED to Proctors, just that those who use them like them. There's no way I'd be spendin' 700.00 for a pair of Proctors when I can get the others for 220.00. I have used those things to raise some huge walls and I trust them. You stick with what works and I just think those Proctor freaks started using them and stayed with 'em. Nothin' wrong with that. Heck, some folks even drive F*rds, if you can believe that.
*
JB,
At least now we know how come you're in the FHB "Breaktime"
discussion board section each issue :-)
MD
PS- Tell 'em how witty and informative I am, you know, what
with my journalism degree and all, okay?
TIA,
Your good friend Dog
**
*
Hey JB , F*rd is an acronim(sp) that is spelled backwards, It stands for driver returning on foot.
*Don, man, I just got another belly laugh from that one!
*Hey Jim, or do you prefer crazy legs? I think you are also out here in the Northwest. I am in the Willamette Valley (60 miles south of Portland.) Where can you get those Jacks for 220. that is about $50 cheeper then I can find them. ANd hey 50 bucks is a few good pizzas and beers. So if you got a source can you pass it on. Thanks
*jim, crazy legs, knothead, whatever...I just got a new catalog today from Tool Crib of The North 800-635-5140 - page 78 - "Wall Jack, Modell 2601Q, 109.99 ea. They sell them at our local yard too. I can check tomorrow if you want and if the price is right pass them along to JonC next time I see him. He lives in Scio, the cultural hub of the universe.
*thanks crazy legs, I get the catalog but never paid atention to the jacks because some of their prices I could beat, but not that price, thanks again
*I have been interested in the proctor jacks, as well as the cheapies for years. I almost bought the proctors on a few occassions. I don't frame exclusively but maybe 30,000 s.f. this year. I prefer to frame small houses (2500 s.f.) with two men pulling in an extra guy or two for the roof. This results in the lowest overall labor for me.My question is barring some balloon walls of oddball situations, where will these things increase my safety of efficiency? Two men can lift a sixteen foot section of 2x6 wall, sheathed in ply even. With a little forsight and a couple of splicing tricks, I seldom have any sheathing to nail from ladders. So for me its not the 700 bucks, its more why carry them on my truck and spend the time setting them up. I could see how they would be nice if you are a one man show, however.My thoughts,Tom
*tom buy a set of proctors and you can say goodbye to those splices,which should speed you up a bit,standing only one wall instead of three.You also can use them to raise beams, small gables ,long rafters,and just about anything else you can dream up with a little creativity.Also have used them to rack walls to plumb when a wall doesn't quite get squared right.Seems to me if you can figure a way to use them other than just an occasional ballon wall the 700 bucks becomes less of a bother.jim
*Hey! I went to the Proctor web site today and those things are only rated for 1000 lbs. ( As you telescope the poles, the capacity decreases) I was surprised. That's the same as those pump jacks I've been usin' are rated for.Tommy - you ever framed a house using wall jacks?
*Tommy, if the house that you frame are small enough, you will not need th jacks. But, I'd probably still prefer to put the jack on the sixteen foot 2x6 wall, especially if it's 9' tall. Then, i would crank it up alone.But we always have a 32' by 11' tall attached garage wall. These beasts usually have a huge double, sometimes triple 16" microlam built in. Add the cornice, and I can guarantee that two men will not raise it, without the jacks.With the jacks, I can still raise this wall alone. I have done it on several occasions. The trick is to keep it from going over. That "problem" is easily solved by attaching the outside braces prior to lifting. The wall then falls into place.I could frame this wall with a handsaw too, but I use the most modern tools that I can. The wall jack is one of these "modern" tools.Think about the saftey of your men's backs. Mine is screwed up because the foreman didn't like to hook up the jacks when I was young. I curse the bastard every day.I can hook up a jack in less than three minutes. Back pain lasts a lifetime.Use common sense, you will be too old soon to lift those walls.Blue
*Ok, so who sells the proctors online? I checked tool crib, and with that amazon BS, it's harder to use, but could not find them there. I don't mind the $700.00, but I would like to find a place who has them.Keith C
*Keith - I just received a list of all their distributers, nationwide. If you tell me where you're from, I can tell you the nearest to you. I'll tell you the truth though. I think the other jacks are a much better value. They are rated for the same lifting capacity and are much easier to carry around in your truck. Of course, I'm biased because that's the type I've always used, but I don't see how the Proctors are significantly better, and they are WAY more expensive.
*Hey Crazy....got you name in the FHB discussions again I see(got my issue in the mail today) My location is Canton, Ohio 60 miles south of Cleveland. Do the ones you use have the stops on them like the proctors that can be set to keep the wall from going past plumb? With the winds howling last week here and 5 of us trying to set a 40' wall with the wind at our backs, I would have felt alot more secure. That and we lost 2 of our crew for a half day when one put a 3-1/4" spike thru the first an middle finger, thru the gloves. Looked kinda cool, but hit only meat, no bone or important stuff. He was back to work by noon , embarrassed and feeling stupid.Rookies.... somehow we must try to keep them alive, as someone did for us once upon a time. Keith
*Blue et al., I am always up for doing a job safer and with less wear on the body, don't get me wrong there. Based on all your strong recommendations, I will definately try the things some day. The actual lifting of the wall is so short in duration that it is hardly measurable component in the wear and tear on our bodies that we endure. Although I have a herniated disk in my back and my neck, I think my knees are going to be the weak link.Tom
*Dude! There aren't any dealers in Ohio! All right, I'll get a map and try to figure out the nearest. That sounds like opportunity knockin' for a dealership in Ohio though. I don't know why the heck they keep puttin' my name in there, probably "...see? we even let idiots like this guy post there, you can too..." About blow over - what we always do is nail the braces that will brace the wall back to the deck on the ends of the wall before we lift it. "Start" a nail in the rim joist directly below the nail that fastens the brace to the wall and as you raise the wall, the brace slides along that nail until it is about 45 degrees when the wall is upright. It only takes a second for one carpenter to nail both end braces and that secures the wall long enough to get a few temporary braces up in the center of the wall.OK, I'm back. It looks like the nearest to you is "Builder's Equipment & Supply" in Pottstown PA (610)-323-3320. None in Western NY or WV, a whole slew of them in WI and MI. Hey, you comin' to the summer shin dig at Pete's?
*jim Kieth raises a valid argument for the proctors.As you know I own a set, with the wind blowing the stops are a real nice thing to have.A good gust could easily pull a wall out of the hands of even the strongest of us.I know you probably lost a little respect for me since I came out,(the Ford truck thing),however like I said the proctors can be used for more than just standing walls.The real nice thing about the stops is,if all your guys end up at the hospital with a nail through thier finger, once the wall is upright you have all day to brace it because it isn't going anywhere.Back to the nail throuhg the finger,ever see this one.New guy yells "Darn it that smarts!" you turn and look and he is pulling nail from index and middle finger and there is a nice diamond point puncture in his ring finger.I was amazed,16 years and I never saw that one,nothing but flesh was hurt. jim "king of the run on sentence" at greaat white
*Jimbo - do tell about about these stops.And seriously, just because you use Proctor jacks, AND those funny little skilsaws, AND drive a F*rd, I don't hold it against you man, 'cause I know you don't own anything but Senco guns...right? Am I right?
*jim the stops are fully adjustable little hooks that are attached to the boom of the jack.You just take your total wall hieght and multiply by 1.45,this can be done in your head,with a pencil and board,or if your mind ain't what it used to be with a calculater.Once you figure where to put them I suggest marking standard wall hieghts with a shot of spray paint.They will stop the wall from falling, blowing, or whatever past vertical once the wall is against them.You could probably apply this method to your old cast iron and 2x4 models by adding a stop block made from 2x6 or 2x8 at the distance you get by using the 1.45thing.This is assuming that the 2x4 is tight to the top of the wall when you start your lift.BTW how do you keep the bottom of the 2x4 from kicking out with those jacks,and can you use them for anything besides lifting walls?.Sad to say that the Ford carries only one Senco gun, a coil nailer that I use for nailing floors and nailing my plates together at the layout stage.All other guns are Paslode F350S Powermasters and Paslode staplers 3200S.Is it o.k. to have a Rol-air compressor? jim"destined to never agree on tool brands"at great white
*Now that sounds like a legitimate advantage to that type of jack.I always nail a block behind the base of the post to keep it from kicking out. I've been on jobs where guys toe nail it to the deck or don't do anything. There is so much weight on the base of the post that I guess friction does most of the work. I always block them though - I'm a little spooked about safety.I admit though, you guys got somethin' there about that stop. Have you ever seen a wall go over? I can't remember it ever bein' an issue. (Had a big one blow back down onto the deck over the weekend once) We toe nail the bottom plate to the framing line, you do that, don't you? That would take a hell of a wind to push a wall over, I don't think I'd be inclined to stand one in conditions like that. Still, you got a point.I have never seen them used for lifting beams, but I don't see why they wouldn't work for that. They have a cradlelike shape that goes under the plate when you lift a wall that you could rest at least a 5" gluelam on. Gonna have to give that a try.First gun I ever bought, 20 years ago, was a Paslode T nailer. Nothin' but a double firin', stiff triggered son of a gun. They must be better now, but I'm stickin' with Sencos. "Fool me once , shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."You know what a "Little Peavey" is?
*I see Tool Crib has your type for $109.00 a piece, they are the same brand an ol' timer had this week on a job next door to the condo we framed. He had a short piece of pipe to jack with, but had to get on a step ladder to get them to near vertical. That is not the place I would want to be on a breezy day, as we had. One gust either way and it will pull it out on you or worse yet push it back on you. What are the Michigan locations anyway?The only thing the kid complained about was that the point of the nail went thru and made the diamond cut on the knuckle of the ring finger(the only blood that was shed until they yanked the nail)I guess the nail bouncing against that knuckle made it real sore for a few days. Okay so I'll admit it now, I drive a Ford 350 4x4 crewcab, with the powerstroke diesel, I use skil 77's, and nothing else, and paslode 350's and 3200 staplers(hey at $3.40/m staples are cheaper and faster, less reload time) Keith
*Keith - Good thing you mentioned those "77s" or you'd be right under Jim "don't know squat about tools" at great white on the list.MI locations -Construction Fasteners in Flint (810) 232-5350Fasteners Inc. in Grand Rapids (616) 241-3448Fingerle Lumber in Ann Arbor (313) 663-0581National Ladder & Scaffold in Madison Hts (248) 399-0986Nations Rent in Traverse City (616) 947-4078and, ah, I guess I'll let that crack about "ol' timers" go...with a smile - jb
*jimbo "knows it all about tools"chicken legs blodgettyes I think I know what a "little peavy"is. It's kind of like a "big peavy" isn't it?You use it for pulling the bottom plate of a wall back into the house when it scoots past the line,right?I also know what an awl and squangle are.Sometimes when my bottom late scoots out I nail a 1x4 to the floor perpendicular to the plate,and nail it to the plate at the point where it is furthest out,but not to the floor.Then I pry from underneath with a stud,lifting th 1x off the floor and this pulls the plate right in to the line.Also yes we do toe-nail our plates to the line on the floor,and with larger stuff we add a couple of metal straps as well.jim"I may know less than I think"at great white
*Jim - the reason I asked about that "little peavey" is I use mine all the time when framing and think they are one of the best tools in my box. Well, mine was made by Proctor and when I went to their web site I didn't see any mention of them. So when I called to ask for litterature I asked about them and the gal told me they no longer make them because of a lawsuit of some type. I was really surprised. One time I went to work on a big Union crew and pulled out my peavy to pull a wall in, and the next thing I know the foreman has one of the guys who's handy with steel (I hate that stuff) makin' them for the whole crew. Great tool. And I hope you know I'm just funnin' about the "doesn't know squat" thing. I get joshin' online and all of a sudden I get the impression I've offended someone. I sure don't mean any of that stuff...after all, if you want to haul a bunch of junk tools around in a piece of crap truck, in that beautiful state you live in, that's your right...
*jim first time I saw a "little peavey"I too thought that they were pretty handy.The salesman who had it said it was his last one as they were no longer going to make them.That was about 5-10 years ago.I wish I would of bought that when I had the chance,the 1x4 thing works great but it takes a little more time.No offense taken jimbo p.s. never seen a wall go over while standing it,but, the idea that it is less likely sure makes me feel alot better.
*kieth where in michigan?that's where I grew up.Livonia just outside Detroit.fellow ford guy jim
*Can I just clear the air and tell you what I have against F*rds? Last year I sold the 1/2 ton 4X4 that Kathy and I took our first date in and rode home from our wedding in. Over 20 years I had that truck. Up in the field right this minutes sits the E300 van I drove every day for over 15 years, through two transmissions and two engines. That thing only lasted me 320,000 miles. I drove it to where it sits 5 years ago, and can't bear to part with it.And now, to top it all off, a couple guys around here drive those Powerstrokes that make my heart skip a beat when they rumble by.
*JIm, National Ladder & Scaffold in Madison Hts has the Mac wall jacks. They will send you a newspaper type catalogue too, if you ask them to put you on their mailing list. I've bought quite a bit of construction stuff (mostly ladders) from them.I nail a block on the Macs, to stop the walls from going over. Occasionally, I've had top heavy walls that would tend to go over. I then hook two Mac on it; one to raise it, and one to keep it from going over. It works quite nicely.To keep the bottom plate from kicking out, instead of relying on toenails, we use brick ties. We space them every four feet and they hold the wall nicely on the line. I just recently had a wall go over. It had been standing overnight, and the next day, it got quite windy. The north wind was whipping around the front wall, gathering steam, and exploding against the back wall. I went up stairs to check that the braces were still intact. There were six of them on a forty foot wall (8' tall). That seemed to be plenty.Wrong!I was down on the ground at the side of the house, when I heard the telltale noise, then the crash. Since the site had a walkout on the rear, the wall landed kinda funny. It broke one section off and rolled it about 15 feet. It was quite messed up. The siding exploded off of it, and the windows were history. Basically, it was trashed! We salvaged the headers and some studs.The reason that the six braces failed was the poor holding power of the osb decking material. Score one for plywood!We now nail 2x4 cleats first to the joists, and then nail our braces to the cleats. I'm still not that enamored of the holding power of the cleats, but life goes on.Anyways, check out the mac hoists. I think they are a little more versatile than the procter, and they can be stored in very small spaces.Blue
*I grew up in East Detroit, now kown as Eastpointe. I am currently living ne of Flint. I did a lot of work in the livonia area. I used to be a Stuperintendent for a firm that built a few buildings at 10 mile and haggerty, and 6 mile and 1-275.Different with my Dodge,blue
*Get rid of the junker, and use the scrap money as a down payment on a cummings!You'll hate the payments, but love to drive to work!blue
*
Ahhh the Powerstroke rumble.....god I love it. With the help of Gale Banks Engineering, and my powerstroke really screams. Gotta love a 1 ton 4 door 4x4 work truck loaded with tools that can smoke a set of BF Goodrich Mud Terrains.I can get out of trouble about as quick as I get in it( which is way to often) Keith.
Blue, where can I see these Macs? Is there a website or something?
*
Jim,
I am a bottom plate toe-nailer also ( I use some lumber banding instead of brick ties on the big walls - I try to stay away from the masons, about half are queer (hah!)), maybe twice a house do I need to pull the bottom plate in. I crown all my plates to the inside and toe-nail them out if need be. Same goes for top plates, makes plumbing and lining a one man job. Any of you guys do this?
Tom
*That's a good idea. So you know if the corners are plumb you'll be pushin' instead of pullin' the center to get it straight? I like that.
*Proctor doesn't make the peaveys anymore, but trojan does. Great time saver. It can be found athttp://www.mytoolstore.com/trojan/troj06.html greg in connecticut
*
yes I also crown plates in,usually the help looks at me funny when I tell them this,"Does it really matter that much,Jim?"They changr thier mind after a couple of plumb and lines though,"We hardly had to pull anything in this time, sure was easier that way!
jim
*
Hey crazy legs,
Thanks for your help the other day, and with the help of other friends here at breaktime I found a great site. Now to tools. I have used the jacks to lift glue-lams twice. It was fast and easy and we were able to overlift with floor joists above (it was a retrofit) to get blocking below to be real tite when we let the beam down. I do not know what kind of weight we were lifting when we lifted the last one it was approx 4"x10"x22'. Sure beat running out and renting a tool or rigging slinging or blowing out a back. It is one of the reasons we use jacks when we can, I believe in safety and long lived backs. I'm still waiting to order a new back for me. As far as the peaveys, great tool, we make our own and have made some for some friends. Trucks, currently driving a 89 gas chevy 3/4 ton extended cab long bed. good luck with the article , expect to see it soon and one like it in JLC
(see "spies"),Josh
*Ordered a set of proctors on monday $650.00 , great guys at a place in Cleveland area called Quicknail. They started talking about truss lock tools, and I've seen them in magazines. I may buy a few sets...anybody use them or have any experience? Keith
*congrats Kieth you will not regret it!ok jim "cl" b I saved this one for last,partially from embarassment, one time we had a 2story walkout house and we were putting on the 2nd floor.We thought that we would try stacking our TJ's on the floor next to the walls they went on and lift them with the proctors.We had a stack of 10 or so and hooked the cables to them and started cranking them up.My brother,the one that works at the Depot now, said I think you should take your end up ahead of mine.Well I said "duh O.K." and about 2-3 clicks all hell broke loose.The joist pile took a jump out the back of the house to the earth below,they also took one of the jacks with them.We both asked "you O.K?" and decided maybe we should try another method.We both survived unscathed as did the jack.Hope you guys were able to picture this from my limited narrative talents.Kieth let me know if you get a price on those trusslocks I've been dreaming about them for a while now.jim
*hehehehe, Hey! Maybe that brother of yours can get you a job! Hey Larry The Home Hack! You readin' this about your siblings? heheheheYou're a good man jim. Anyone who can laugh at themself is OK by me...hehe...man, I got a good one to tell about a 12 foot tall wall, maybe 50 feet long, with a few sliders and transoms above the sliders. Three young gunslingers workin' overlookin' the Narrows Bridge in Tacoma, and right about noon on the Friday before Labor Day we decided to "get something vertical" for the weekend boaters to see. We come saunterin' back to work Tuesday morning and found that bad boy had snapped the braces and was layin' back down on the deck! The only good thing was, it didn't go over into the ravine. Man, that was one bad day to be a gunslinger, I'll tell you. But there weren't many days like that. Goll, I miss those days...28oz. waffle faces, pick up trucks, peaveys, wall jacks, cut offs, packin' 2, 3 sheets of plywood, workin' like hell to out nail the guy on the opposite wall - with the local rock station blastin' away..."ROXANNE"...those were the days.
*Thanks, Greg. I wanted to refrence that tool in the article. Now I'll try to track down Trojan and see if they still make it. Great tool. I like it for pulling top plates together at corners and partitions too. - jb
*jim "cl" blodgettI was thinkin' about how you guys that use those cast iron jacks could hold the bottom of your jackpost in place a little safer. Here's what I thought might work.Go to the hardware store,maybe the depot to help out with my bros retirement fund, and buy a couple of strap hinges like you might use on a wooden gate. Then you just screw or bolt them to your post in a way that your pivot point is the same, and you can attach them to the floor in the same way that us more enlightened guys( read that proctor guys) do. With this method you could also apply the stop blocks I mentioned in the earlier post.Now with the bottom attached to the floor securely and the stop blocks in place once the wall is vertiical you can take a more relaxed approach to getting it braced, cuz it is less likely to go anywhere.jim"good thing I'm a good carpenter cuz I wouldn't make it as a writer" at great white
*jim "you don't really expect to get away with the big print e mail, do ya?" at great white - That's not a bad idea. I really like that stop block, and by securing the post to the deck, that block would actually be holding something. I just might give that a try.jim "so keep your head on a swivel" blodgett
*jim bf+s?buy Ford and savejim
*
Jim
I have used Proctor jacks for 15 years.
I do not know the jacks you are describing but they do NOT sound safe!!
As a gunslingerwe put up huge gables, in excess of 45 feet complete with bump-out bays, secondary gables, siding, cornice, the works.
On that one we broke a jack, the cable reel imploded(did that fishing once).
We had 6 other jacks in place so nothing bad happened.
You cannot get replacement parts for the jacks anymore,
you have to buy the entire ratchet assembly if something breaks or wears, including the cable.
We still impress the locals when they see 2 men lifting 40 foot gables completly sided.
I no longer nail the bottom plate to the deck, instead I use tin shingles(step flashing). It is easier to nail through than banding .
I shot myself in the leg once trying to gun nail through banding. I hand nail the tin shingles. Yes mom I can get learned.
I lost my peevee years ago but had an iron worker friend
build me his big brother. This one is actualy too big,it tends to punch holes in the deck if it is not above a joist
*
Woodi - I have done the type of thing you describe many times with these cast iron jacks. One of the biggest surprises I got while researching Proctor jacks was that both types are rated for lifting the same weight.
If these seem unsafe, it's gotta be because I haven't described the process very well. I am totally comfortable using them, as I'm sure anyone who has used them is. The 2X4 is, of course, the weak link. Hopefully, the article will make things much clearer as a picture (and a good editor) is worth a thousand words.
As for shooting yourself, glad to hear I'm not the only one to be known as "porcupine"! Later - jb
*
I am writing a short piece about wall jacks for FHB...OK, OK, get up off the floor now...I have been using the red cast iron ones that ride up a 2X4 for 20 years. I'd like to hear what anyone else has to say about them.
I am also lookin' for information about Proctor wall jacks, or any others anyone has used in the past, or still uses. Anything is fair game, really, brand names, the way they work, shortcomings, anecdotes about your experiences with them, shortcomings in the design...anything at all. The more information I get, the better. Thanks - Jim
*Jim....check the OSHA regs and recommendations for pole jacks and you'll probably get rid of your old ones....we wnet to Alum-a-pole about 3 years ago when OSHA got real testy around here...after the initial cost , I can't see why I would ever go backwith 24' scaffolds we can stage a 50' building from sill to cornice and start the roof with 3 poles...we've alos bot the work planks, and the safety net, ...if you're siding, everything goes up and stays up..incl. productionthe old standard around here was "wall brackets, both bolt on and nail on" and double plank with a scab nailed on with 8d common..painters do a lot of ladder jacks with 24' plankswe use our trestles a lot too, got a set of 8' and a set of 12' both home-madesold my Proctor Wall-jacks after we stopped doing new construction, but i wish I had 'em back...
*
jim
The labels are long gone from my oldest pair of proctors, but I would swear they were rated at 2000#. Maybe more than one lawsuit scared em. I also assume a 2x safety rating as in any lifting devise-i.e. a lifting stap will be rated at 2 ton and be designed to lift 4 ton, it is usually listed right on the label. And yes a picture would propably help.
Seems that those who have continue to use what is familiar.
If the other jacks have worked for you and others all these years, why change? No one has posted any serious accidents for either type, and I do not know of any myself.