Replies

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Apr 08, 2003 03:38am | #1

   When was the last time (if ever) the system was entirely drained? It is possible that the plumbing is waterlogged. ie. the (I don't know exactly what they are called) lengths of vertical pipe that are located near your valves and that are supposed to hold air and act as a shock absorber against the inertia of the incoming water are filled with water. Or... a DIY didn't know any better, and didn't install any. I have heard that pro's almost always install copper, and that cpvc is more often than not DIY. At least that is what I've been told out here (WI).

   Jon

   
   

   ---

   Edited 4/7/2003 8:42:37 PM ET by WorkshopJon

1. 
   Milt | Apr 08, 2003 08:28am | #4

   I haven't drained my system yet.  This home was built in 1999 and I bought it from the owner contractor in July 2000.  I think it's called an air chamber which I don't think was installed since the contractor who is a carpenter did the plumbing.  Since warmer weather is coming here in southwest Washington State, I will soon go into my crawl space to see if any was installed.

   Sincerely, Milt

1. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 08, 2003 03:26pm | #7

   If the air chambers where used you won't see them from the craw space.

   The should have been installed by the valves. Instead of running a pipe into a ell and then into the valve a T is used and the pipe continues up an inch or 2 and is capped off.

   HOWEVER, as someone else suggested the trapped air does not last long. In a few weeks to a few months the air is asborbed into the water.

   To have a lasting hammer arrestor you need to use a sealed unit. They either have a sealed piston or a small shere with a bladder in them.

   They run about $10 each.

1. 
   bobtim | Apr 08, 2003 06:29pm | #8

   Hey Bill

   I always wondered how long the sealed units last. Do you have any idea? And when they fail (I assume the bladder fails) do they revert to being a regular old air chamber?

   Enquiring minds want to know

1. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 08, 2003 06:54pm | #9

   I don't have any real ideal.

2. 
   Milt | Apr 08, 2003 08:55pm | #10

   Thanks for all the good information guys.  I think the first thing I'm going to do is install a pressure reducing valve and bring my water pressure down to about 70#.  Hope it works.  As for the location, should I install the pr valve as it enters the crawl space of my home?  This location would be about 2' after the shut off valve.  My shut off valve is located in handhole on my front porch concrete floor.

   Milt

1. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 08, 2003 09:14pm | #11

   I am not sure that it makes too much difference, but I would put as close to the shut off as is practical. And don't forget about freezing.

   Also you should but an expansion tank in. With the pressure reducer water can't flow "backwards" and when the water heater heats up cold water the water will expand. Without the expansion tank it often causes water to flow from the safety valve.

2. 
   NickNukeEm | Apr 08, 2003 10:34pm | #12

   Excellent point about the expansion tank.  I think he should have one anyway, it would allow the PR valve more time to react to rapid changes in pressure, such as a toilet flushing with the shower in use.  Pressure in the system would decline more slowly as the volume in the exp. tank expels into the system, allowing more time for the PR valve to compensate for the increased demand.

   I never met a tool I didn't like!

3. 
   Milt | Apr 08, 2003 10:41pm | #13

   Thank you very much.  I appreciate all the advise I've got in Breaktime.  I signed on with the Taunton Press Breaktime only a few days ago.  I've read FineHomebuilding for many years and finally had the guts to sign on and ask for advise.  I'm impressed with the results.  You guys are the best!

   Sincerely, Milt from southwest Washington State

4. 
   GoldenWreckedAngle | Apr 08, 2003 10:48pm | #14

   Well Milt, welcome to Breaktime. Drop by the Woodshed Tavern some time and have Pi put the beverage of your choice on my tab. Do be careful- there's been a little more ruckus in there than usual lately.

   Glad to have you on board!Kevin Halliburton

   "One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-

5. 
   Milt | Apr 09, 2003 12:38am | #15

   Thanks! =)

   milt

2. 
   artbarjax | Apr 08, 2003 04:00am | #2

   I'm not an expert but i've always heard you should keep the water pressure below 80 psi so the pressure reducing valve may not be a bad idea.  Draining the system like the other poster suggested is also a good start.  I've  always wondered if those home made water hammer arresters stayed dry for longer than a week.  Just a side note but here in balmy Jacksonville, FL cpvc pipe is used almost exclusively in residential construction.  It's not just for DIY'ers!

1. 
   Milt | Apr 08, 2003 08:36am | #5

   Thanks for your comments.  Yes I think draining the system out and installing a pressure reducing valve would a good start.  Also good to hear that other states use cpvc pipes.

   Sincerely, Milt from southwest Washington State

3. 
   NickNukeEm | Apr 08, 2003 04:41am | #3

   100# is high, maybe too much so. 

   You neglected to state what your source is, but I assume it's city water.  Also, how many stories (or feet) from when the source enters your house to the high point of your system?  Water pressure is lost .466 psi per foot.  For my house, from the bottom of the basement to the shower head on the 2nd floor, is about 26 feet, so I lose ~13psi; water at 60 psi in the basement is 45 psi at the shower.

   Consequently, I had to increase my pressure to achieve adequate flow in the showers.  I currently run at about 75# when my well pump cycles off.  My point is, unless you have a third story you're trying to supply, 100# is way overkill.  Depending on your house, you may only need 50-60 psi.

   The previous post recommendation to install a regulator would be a good place to start if draining to reactivate the 'shock absorbers' doesn't work (if in fact you have one, which may be doubtful.)  And with cpvc, it shouldn't be very difficult to do, either.

   I never met a tool I didn't like!
1. 
   Milt | Apr 08, 2003 08:42am | #6

   The city provides my water.  I agree with you that 100# is too high.  My home is single level ranch type.  70' from the city valve is my shut off valve.  From my valve the kitchen and bath faucets are approximately 30'.  Kitchen, laundry and both baths are grouped in one location.

   Sincerely, Milt