My 9 yr old 40 gal LP gas water heater just died. The pilot light won’t stay lit …..when I try to relight it, the flame goes out as soon as I let up on the button. So there’s no hot water and we need to do something asap. The easiest route is a trip up to HD for a replacement 40 gal tank heater. A new one will slip into the same footprint and I can plumb it up quickly…….but I can’t help wondering about the tankless heaters. They look to be about 4x the price of a tank once you buy all the exhaust venting. I imagine they pay for themselves in energy savings after a few years. Other than price are there downsides? Any issues with hard water? Thanks for any insight.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The FHB Podcast crew takes a closer look at an interesting roof.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Tommy,
I would replace the themocoupler before buying a new tank. I would wait for it to spring a leak before buying a new one. Maybe this will buy you some time to do a good analysis on a tankless system.
Michael
I'm all for simple and cheap solutions.....what exactly is the thermocoupler and where would I pick one up? Yes, I'm holding the button down for several minutes, and the pilot won't stay lit.
Re: our water use profile, 2 adults with the kids grown and only home on break from college. So a couple of showers and a washer load per day. I think we could see some energy savings with a tankless heater if they are otherwise reliable.
You will have a hard time finding a "thermocoupler" look for a thermocouple instead.
Here is an example. it screws into the control box and the tip sets in the pilot flame on conventional ones. It has to be hot (making sure pilot is lit) before it opens main gas valve.
http://www.waterheaterparts.net/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?keywords=tcouple&search=action
Thanks for the web-site of the thermocouple. I have a similar prolem. I do not want to buy the tankless because it is very expensive. I think the tank gas type is much better. This discussion group is great. Thanks again. I was looking for information about the thermocouple.
The first thing would be to replace the thermocouple. Simple and cheap.
If that is not the problem then yes, you need to replace it.
Afar as replacing it with a tankless use the advanced search in the upper left. (NOT the Red search under the FHB banner). Been discussed many times.
The amount of savings is based on the usage patterns. If you have a large family and often using HW then the savings are often not enough to pay for the extra equipment cost.
On the otherhand if you single and only take a quick shower once a day and maybe 1-2 loads of clothes and dishes a week you will save a lot more in fuel.
And you need to figure your max flow rate and temp of your incoming water to see what kind of tempature rise that you need in the heater.
And the tankless might be a 150-225,000 BTU burner and needs larger gas supply than a 40,000 tank type.
Also venting can be expensive.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I don't think usage has a thing to do with the payback on a tankless. I don't think a tankless uses any less fuel to "heat" the water. It is all about stand-by losses, which have nothing to do with usage. Correct me if I am wrong.
My greatest value received from a tankless is the space opened.
My utility room is now a full room, not a closet.
I did some googling about the thermocouple and it really does seem likey that is the culprit. I gather that it's a fairly generic part, the variable being the length needed? Thanks for all the advice.....if this works, you've saved me some dough and kept a perfectly servicable tank out of the landfill.
Word of warning:
The aluminum tubing carrying the gas from the valve to the pilot light is quite fragile. It passes through the sealed plate on "newer" water heaters with the flame suppression built in- all of these models have perforated sides at the bottom, a sight window and a pushbutton spark ignitor.
You will need to undo this tubing to replace the thermocouple.
I suggest exercising extreme caution when removing it.
It kinks quite easily, and it may have unique flares. Use of copper tubing is against code.
If you damage it, you are SOL as far as a quick and easy repair goes.
As far as length goes, just neatly coil up the excess without kinking it.
"I don't think a tankless uses any less fuel to "heat" the water. It is all about stand-by losses, which have nothing to do with usage. Correct me if I am wrong."That is all true.In fact I think that I was wrong.The dollar about of the losses to the ambinet (althrough for part of the year they might not be losses) is a fixed dollar amount. But as a percent of the bill they are less, the higher the usage hot water..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
No, you were right in your first post.
The cost factor does depend on usage, it is standby loss that you waste energy/money.
If you use enough to eliminate standby loss then you get more bang for your buck.
Using more will not save you money of course.
Most tankless WH's are more efficient than tanks in heating the water, but paying for itself is not going to happen in most situations.
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” —Albert Einstein
No, for a given size tank, insulation, and water tempature you will have #### BTU's being lost per hour.You still have that same BTU loss/hr regardless if HW is being used or not (assuming that you don't use up all of the HW and drop the tempature a lot)..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That comes down to "lost" or "used".
If the tank is reheating water that cooled down from standby that is a "loss" if it is heating new water that is being used for _______ purpose then you are "using" the BTU's that you are paying for.
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” —Albert Einstein
It is both lost and used, not either.You have a tank, say 130 degrees. Assume that you don't know what is in the tank or any changes that might be happening within that tank. But you measure the heat energy that the tank gives off to the room. It gives off the same amount of heat 24x7 becuase the tank stays at 130.Now being a WH that tank may actually go from 125 to 135 as the water heats and cools, but that only causes minor changes in the amount of heat lost.Now lets say someone uses HW so the temp drops to 125 and the burner fires.These are all just made up number.So the burner is putting out 40,000 btu's. 5,000 are going up the flue, and 500 btu's are being lost from the tank.So the tank is getting 34,500 btu's to heat the water back up.If there where no losses from the tank you would have 35,000 btu's to heat the water. So that it would heat faster and use less gas..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Let's go back to the post that started this.
The amount of savings is based on the usage patterns. If you have a large family and often using HW then the savings are often not enough to pay for the extra equipment cost.
Doright answered with ----" I don't think usage has a thing to do with the payback on a tankless. I don't think a tankless uses any less fuel to "heat" the water. It is all about stand-by losses, which have nothing to do with usage. Correct me if I am wrong."
Then you agreed with him.
Where you lose on the tank is REheating water that is cooling due to idle conditions.
If you pull hot water from tank & replace with cold water & use BTU's to heat that water that is not a loss, that is a use---- efficiency is another thing. We are just talking about standby loss which is reheating water that wasn't used right?
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” —Albert Einstein
"Where you lose on the tank is REheating water that is cooling due to idle conditions."What you are paying for is heat losses through the tank.Those heat losses occure 24x7.When you use water you have to both heat the cold water, but you still have losses from the tank as the tank is still hot.Go back and look at the tank as a "black box" (that means that you don't know what is going on inside it, you can only know what is going on from the outside.) You measure that the tanks is hot and has certain insulation. Basic on that alone you can figure the BTU/hr lost to the ambinent.You don't know what is going on inside the tank. So you don't when water is being used or not. Just that you need to keep feeding it X BTU/hr to keep the tank hot..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
OK I think we're arguing minutia.
Yes you do pay for heat loss through the tank.
The only point I was trying to make which I thought you made in your first post was stand by loss.
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” —Albert Einstein
The comment got me to thinking, too. I think you are right, but you looking at the comment differently. Usage plays a role in the standby loss. I.e. If the heater isn't used at all, the standby loss on a tank is high. The tank keeps going through the heating/cooling/heating cycles just to keep the tank up to temperature and ready to deliver. The standby loss on the tankless is nothing since the heater didn't run. As usage increases, the cost to heat the water in the two would tend to get closer together. At least that is how I took it and it seems to make sense.
As mentioned, the problem is probably the thermocoupler. (Are you holding the bypass down long enough for it to war?)
I disagree with the view of waiting until it leaks before replacing it, at least for those folks who don't drain it regularly to remove sediment.
1/2" of sediment will cost you, in increased energy, for a "typical" family of four, about the price of a new water heater at current prices.
I've been told by plumbers to anticipate about 1/10" per year, although I don't know how accurate that figure is or how local.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
"1/2" of sediment will cost you, in increased energy, for a "typical" family of four, about the price of a new water heater at current prices."How long does it have to operate with the sediment to have extra energy cost to equal the cost of a new tank?.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Well, if the 1/10" /per year holds up, and if you remember high school math, you could probaly figure it - the key lesson is to flush the thing every year or 6 months (depending on your water quality.)
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
"and if you remember high school math, you could probaly figure it"Well If this was in the tavern I would make a snarky comment about how if one had 5th grade reading comprehension one would understand that your reply had nothing to do with my quesiont.But since this is not the tavern I won't make such remarks.> 100353.6 in reply to 100353.4 "1/2" of sediment will cost you, in increased energy, for a "typical" family of four, about the price of a new water heater at current prices."How long does it have to operate with the sediment to have extra energy cost to equal the cost of a new tank?<.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic: I can't remember the high school math for this either, and was just trying to say "if you can remember it [where I can't]...." Sorry for expressing myself badly.End of year 1: 1/10th inch = some extra costs (Come to think of it, I think we'd need calculus for this)End of year 2: 2/10th inch = even more extra costs to be added to year one'sEtc.I just don't know at what point it adds up to that cost.But I've calculated that with the cost of gas in my area, the projected extra gas needed in year 10 alone, at the EPA's projected hot water usage for a family of 4, equals about $280-300,Presumably, year 5 alone would be half, so with year 5 and year 6 together (without adding the increased costs of years 1-4) we'de exceed the cost in those 2 years.1
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
"But I've calculated that with the cost of gas in my area, the projected extra gas needed in year 10 alone, at the EPA's projected hot water usage for a family of 4, equals about $280-300,'That is the missing part. You had not given any indication of the extra cost with the added disposites.But where does this number come from?.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
2" of sediment doesn't cost me anything. Just reduces the amount of water in my Electric HW heater tank. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"But since this is not the tavern I won't make such remarks."
YOu just did. Hmm, nice try. A bit like Huckabe (spelling), "I made this attack ad, then decided it was not who I am, but I know you won't beleive me that I even made such an ad, SO LET ME SHOW IT TO YOU".
You have to understand that Bill and I have been poking each other and laughing with (at?<G>) each other for years. I believe there was an element of, say, snarky humor in his comments.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
OK, THEN IT IS EVEN MORE IRONIC given my Huckabe jib. Bill should have used Huckabe instead of the Tavern. Good inside joke.
Now, Bill will likely ripe me one in a future post. But incase he reads your post and then mine, I will apologize.
4x?
My new tankless cost $3300 installed. And it was a relatively easy install.
But I got a $300 energy rebate credit!
Edited 2/1/2008 12:01 pm ET by peteshlagor
Edited 2/1/2008 12:27 pm ET by peteshlagor
>> My new tankless cost $3300 installed. And it was a relatively easy install. <<
In another thread we were discussing tankless Water Heaters (TWHs). I was interested, among other things, in pricing. Someone in that thread said he got a Bosch TWH for $600... I was really kinda wondering what one would really get for $600?
Care to comment on that?
8 - 9 years ago I bought a Bosch Aquastar from HD for about $650. Installation took about 10 hours @ 60 per. Not counting the carp work I had done to accommodate the unit.
Googling tankless heaters will give you some sites about choosing which one. Study this issue carefully. Learn what each measurement really means to the user.
For me, the low flow was most important. There's only two of us and only one shower is running at a time, so I don't need to heat a YMCA. Therefore, high flows were unimportant to me. (Salespeople are taught to size based on bathrooms.) Warranty was important, as was efficiency. These charts led me to the Tagachi T3.
On line, one could get it for a bit over $1,000. The permit is $125. Although I had an easy installation site, it still required a 25' SS flue liner and cap to vent the new machine. The piping, gas lines, and expansion tank was not part of that $1,000 on line. Disposal of the old two tanks was included. And he fixed my humidifier at the same time at n/c. Took him all day to do the install.
I think I got a fair price.
Those claims of $600 are the lowest one can get. And a DIY install, not factoring in other parts and materials.
Don't buy these based on fuel savings unless -... One buys them for the open space that results.
I wasn't questioning what you had bought... More just wondering if you thought a decent unit could actually be had for as little as $650?
Also, you said >> Don't buy these based on fuel savings unless -... One buys them for the open space that results. << Now I'm really confused... I thought the main reason to buy one was to have lower fuel bills.... and that the space savings was just a little bonus????
From an experienced user, I do save gas. But that's because I now use cold water to quickly wash my hands, which is frequently. Prior to the tankless, I would use hot even though it wouldn't get hot in that short period of time. I recognize that the intense flame for a short period of time is wasteful, so I'm now developing a new habit.
But I would't expect most people to do so - unless they were paying the gas bill. Therefore, I question the savings in such applications.
My statement was intended to better put the issues in perspective. The savings will be over a long, long time and involves some behavioral changes. The space savings is immediate as well as overwhelming.
Yes, I think one could get a unit for that low price. But that someone should be prepared to thoroughly study the instructions, consult with his BI, and be excessively anal about running the pipes most efficiently - himself. Ain't nothing that screams, "I did it myself" than a goofy installtion of a new highly visible appliance. And all your buddies will want to see it.
I cannot ever emphasize enuff the importance of proper venting of these units. Run those plans by the BI first. That's where you'll get screwed up the quickest.
Edited 2/1/2008 11:56 pm ET by peteshlagor
Pete's mention above of the BI and water heater installations and discussion of the efficiency of WHs reminds me of a few other things:
The Plumbing Inspector for a particular area I was building in came up with this idea:
Put a timer and a switch over-ride on an electric tanked water heater. Somewhat the same idea as a programmable thermostat. The idea would be that the water heater turned on at say 5:00 AM off at 9:00 AM, etc etc. Then the over-ride switch could be used on days one decided to stay home from work, etc. Sounds somewhat inconvenient to me... Maybe some variant of the plan might work better.
And another thought entirely: In the houses I've been building in past years I've always installed gas WHs if gas was available, most often direct vent models. Part of my "sales pitch" to the home buyer would be "faster recovery time than electric with lower fuel bills". Now a days, with the price of natural gas steadily going up, I'm hearing from some respected sources - like for example a building scientist who does energy star stuff I deal with, that electric might well operate for the same price as gas.
Anyone have thoughts on either of those items?
"Put a timer and a switch over-ride on an electric tanked water heater. Somewhat the same idea as a programmable thermostat. The idea would be that the water heater turned on at say 5:00 AM off at 9:00 AM, etc etc."Those where popular in the 70' "energy crises" and used to see the timers in the hardware store.The "best" performace is when the heater is turned off just as the last of the hot water is used. And turns on just in time so that the WH reaches tempature just when the HW is needed in the evening.Because of the practical limitations the timer will be set long enough so that after the last HW is used the tank will be reheated, THEN the timer turns off so for the rest of the day the tank is giving off energy.Now with an poorly insulated tank the tank would hav quickly cooled off and had to be reheated several times during the day. So the timer will save some in that case.With modern insulation the tank will cool off much, much slower. So it will require fewer, if any (don't really have any idea of how quick electrics cool off) reheats before the timer has to turn on again for the evening use. So the energy saved is limited if any."Now a days, with the price of natural gas steadily going up, I'm hearing from some respected sources - like for example a building scientist who does energy star stuff I deal with, that electric might well operate for the same price as gas. "MIGHT WELL is nothing, but pure ####.I might well get in my car and fly over the highways, ala Jetsons. But today I can't.The problem is that gas and electric rates vary drastically.Where I am I pay 5 cent/k Wh INCREMENT for high usage during the 8 winter months. And about 10 c during the summer.Other peopl pay over 20.Now there is less varance in gas rates, but some. Our purchased gas rates is $0.79/CCF. A 3-5 years ago it did top out about 1.29 IIRC and at that time I figured for a furnace straight electric heat would have been comparable to gas.Now that purchased gas is not what they pay for gas at anytime. It is a computed number based on fixed price agreements, summer gas purchased and stored, stop market prices, and hedging. It is updated a couple of time during the year if needed.And one can't just take the bill and divide it by the gas/electric usage. Becuase our electric is based on usage you need to look at what increment that you are on.And our gas used to have a per usage rate for the cost of the gas, a per usage rate for the supplying and maintaning the pipes, and a fixed rate for the office, meter reading and the like. Now they eliminated the usage rate for the pipes and added that to a the fixed rate.So there is less "cost" in using a ccf of gas.And a fair percentage of electricity comes from gas and oil so it is going to increas as those fuels increase. IIRC it is 30% on the average, but will vary a lot depending on the part of the country..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Does anyone have any experience with the Whirlpool "energy smart" water heaters at Lowes"? Our church 30 gal 7-8 yr old 30 gal sprung a leak. Other trustees thought it was a gasket around one element but must have been tank. Short of unslinning it I could find no gasket or joint leak. I put one of these in, it has a panel with 4 modes.
One supposedly monitors the patterns adjusts to useage. One is vacation mode. Also has trouble indicator lights for element failures. It also has 3" foam insulation and 12 yr warranty. Unfortunately the warrranty is for "single family residences". I guess it a single church family (;-). Guarantee it will have less useage that a home.
It does seem to be pretty efficient. I used the Weld -on "flowguard Gold" cpvc cement that says it needs a 6 hr cure for hot or high pressure. I had my last joint in a slight bind and rushed the fill/heat. After about 30 min I went back to check before I left and as I was standing their that last joint blew off.
Twenty seconds later I would have been in the van heading off. The water was already warm after about 30 min. Reglued, adjusted pipe clamps and left it till the next day. Turned water on and ran it was still a little warm
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=188413-135-EE3J40RD045V&lpage=none
>>One is vacation mode. There is some growing concern that keeping your water heater too low can contribute to bacterial growth.In fact, the cutting edge now recommends keeping the water at 140 and tempering at each point of use.I haven't formed an opinion yet, myself.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
I am with you. First they say you will scald kids above 120 but now poison them with bacteria if below 140. Who is this flip flopper?
There's a 240 timer made for hot tubs that fits the bill.
I put one on our old tank-type water heater in the previous house. I couldn't tell you if it saved us $ or not. I suspect the energy required to re-heat the water in the tank after the 'off' period might have been near equal to what it would have taken to keep it a constant 'hot.'
The thing about electric water heaters is that you can get standby losses to just about zero. With gas it's pretty difficult to cut standby losses below a certain level. So electric becomes more attractive as standby becomes a bigger issue.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
>>The thing about electric water heaters is that you can get standby losses to just about zero. With gas it's pretty difficult to cut standby losses below a certain level. How so? The interior flue and the "chimney effect?"
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
Yeah. It's pretty hard to insulate the heat exchanger. One could build a gas unit with a condensing design that reduced standby losses an order of magnitude or so over conventional, but I guess the market isn't there.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
http://www.hotwater.com/products/residential/rg-vertex.htmlhttp://polariswaterheaters.com/support/specifications.aspx
.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yeah, that polaris unit is pretty close. To minimize standby losses the flue needs to exit near the bottom. The thing I'd change is to partition the tank so that the lower half is a tempering tank with limited mixing between the two.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
DanH
The other factor which everyone dismisses is heat losses thru the roof with gas water heaters.. Most water heaters are on the ground floor and a lot of gas water heaters simply burn available air and send the waste up the exhaust flue.. 24/7/365
That loss of warm air must be replaced and since mother nature abhores a vacum it causes cold un heated air to be drawn indoors.. to replace what went up the flue..
DanH, you say you can get standby losses near zero with electric? Standard electric heaters or the tankless electric? Which are you referring?
Tommymc
Replace the thermocouple as others have said.. Then........
Don't automatically assume a replacement LP unit is the best. I looked into it carefully and found that there was a benefit to going to electric with the potential of greater rewards down the road..
Not all locations is that a good solution, nor is tankless automatically superior. It's a factor of costs, usuage, and a large variety of other factors.. Those judgements shouldn't simply look at today's costs but attempt to forcast future trends as well.
I have a 60 gallon water heater. The cost stand-by water heating is about $15/month, or $180/ year. That might help with the pay-back calculations. If a tankless is four times the cost, that is a fairly lenghty pay-back.
as other posters have said, the problem may well be with the thermocouple.
what i would like to add is that the first thing to try before you head out and buy a new one is simply to tighten the old one where it screws into the valve.
a thermocouple is made up of strands of dissimilar metals that when heated produce a small amount of electricity. about 18 millivolts for a good one. when the valve does not sense this current, the valve then determines that the pilot is out, and will not send gas to the main burners when the thermostat "calls for heat". this is the "safety" in a gas burning appliance. in the old days before this wonderful system, big bada boom.
you may also want to clean the pilot burner orofice, and then adjust the pilot flame that heats the thermocouple, especially in a LP unit because it is about 1/3 of the size of a natural gas orofice.
the whole burner assembly will come out of the water heater when you remove all those little doors (pain in the rear) and unscrew the main valve nut, pilot burner nut, and thermocouple nut from the bottom of the main valve. try to notice if the thermocouple seems loose when you take it apart. you can then remove the whole thing and take it apart and clean it.
when you put it back together make sure you get everything tight and after you get it working test all connections with a solution of soapy water for leaks. a small soldering flux brush work well for reaching into the burner assembly compartment and testing the connections to the pilot burner that you undid to clean the orofice. MAKE SURE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY LEAKS! be patient and very thorough here.
also, if that doesn't work you can measure the thermocouple and get a good look at it, so you will know what you are looking for when you go to the store to buy a new one.
after cleaning and tightening, step one, then replacing thermocouple, step two, if the main burner wont come on after pilot is lit (not your problem i know, just trying to be thorough) and you are sure that you have turned the knob from "pilot" or "light" to "main" and thermostat is turned up enough to call for heat try smacking the valve with the handle of a screwdriver. frequently a good rap on a bad or sticky valve will get it to come on that one last time, and then you get to change out the valve, which you can easily get for free from one of the water heaters that were replaced just because of a bad thermocouple or dirty pilot orofice.
I want to thank you all for the help and info....the problem was indeed the thermocouple. I picked one up at the local True Value for $12 on the way home from work and that did the trick. Soapy water to leak test the pilot tube and a hot shower soon after. :)
A small bit of advice when buying a new water heater would be to have the contractor install a brass ball valve for drainage instead of the cheap plastic valve that comes standard with almost all water heaters. This way, you can periodically drain out sediment without a worry that the cheap plastic valve won't one day cease to close (or open) properly. Small insurance. I first learned of this in a FHB issue a decade or so ago.
They look to be about 4x the price of a tank once you buy all the exhaust venting.
FWIW, I just replaced my hwh with a tankless. The tankless was about $600 by the time I got all the venting, etc. but with the $300 energy rebate, that brought it below the cost of a new gas hwh.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING (IMHO) about a tankless is to get one that is large enough for your needs. They are rated by temperature rise and water volume. You want one that will raise the coldest water temperature in your area to at least the minimum temperature you find comfortable with the max volume you will use simultaneously.
We always had a gas WH, now we have electric. Thought it would be way expensive to operate, but it's about the same. Once, I turned it off to do some plumbing work- forgot to turn it back on. Took a shower a week later (save the humor, we were away) and although I noticed the temp was low, there was plenty of hot water- amazing. It recovers (50 gal tank) in around 20 minutes. It's a high-efficiency (well insulated) unit, AND I have a WH blanket on it.Bill
You walk into a movie theater, where do you sit? Down below where you're looking up -- if that's what you like. Or maybe way above, because you like looking down. Or maybe in the middle because you like looking straight ahead. Every time I've been to a movie, I and others have filled in the straight ahead sections first. TVs should always be at a comfortable eye level. Saves the neck.