Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 30, 2008 01:13am | #1

   Good stuff - but the Delta dimplemat is just part of an overall system. It provides draiange plane while it should still be applied over a water proofing on the wall itself

    

    

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1. 
   toycept | Mar 30, 2008 01:29am | #2

   Thanks for the reply.... I had asked that specific question..."Is is necessary for the dimpled product (the Delta MS") be applied over a waterproofing covering that is applied directly to the concrete.... and the answer was "no"... it wasn't necessary.... the only other component necessary was this extruded strip to cap off the Delta product on the top seam (just below the grade).... why do you feel it's necessary to still use a covering on concrete wall? Thanks for the help.

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 30, 2008 02:02am | #3

   Because any water that gets over the top or through this material will still be trouble. 

    

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2. 
   splintergroupie | Mar 30, 2008 05:03am | #4

   I've uses the Delta product on both a concrete foundation and a wood foundation with no waterproofing adhered to the wall, which according to instructions is not necessary. The theory is that any water that MIGHT penetrate the membrane, which is extremely tough, would fall down the open space created by the dimples rather than be forced into the walls; the path of least resistance for water is not through the wall, but falling to your footing drain, which is definitely necessary.

   I've tried to tear the Delta membrane and can't do it, but it should still be protected from sharp rocks in backfill. There is a tendence of the backfill to catch the dimples and pull the membrane down a little as it is compacted. I solved this problem on the second install by using a slip sheep of some discarded 1/8" paneling over the dimples.

   It's light, it's tough, it's cheap, it works, and it's fast and easy to install by even a blonde girl. What's not to love?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/29/2008 10:04 pm by splintergroupie

1. 
   toycept | Mar 30, 2008 01:54pm | #5

   Splintergroupie,thanks for the reply. I do remember (now) the rep mentioning why no coating on the wall was required... as you stated, any water making its way past the Delta, will just weep down the wall and make its way to the french drain configuration.I'm interested about your technique of using a "1/8" slip sheet" of paneling. Could you please be more specific about what you do with that. Do you remove the paneling somehow as you're backfilling? Thanks

1. 
   Marson | Mar 30, 2008 03:31pm | #6

   My two cents. If the manufacturer says you don't need additional dampproofing behind the dimple sheet, you are probably OK. However, you might consider that another layer is cheap insurance. For example, what if your drain tiles become plugged or overwhelmed? Warranties on products like this are pretty much useless--no manufacturer is going to come and dig up your foundation for you if it leaks, so you want to get it right no matter what they say. I can't speak for the other poster, but I would think the thin plywood is to prevent rocks from tearing the membrane, both as they are dumped in and as the fill settles. You would have to leave it in there. Whether you need something like this against the membrane depends on what you backfill with. Here we use screened sand (which by the way functions similar to your dimple membrane by providing a drainage layer against the foundation). Local conditions vary.

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 30, 2008 11:46pm | #10

   Good points. I tend to ba a cheap insurance overkill kind of guy anyways, but I wonder if anyone noticed that the lifespan given for this stuff is 25 years? 

    

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1. 
   jonblakemore | Apr 01, 2008 01:17am | #11

   The web page says >25 years, the brochure says "an expected service life of more than 50 years", and the technical specs on page 4 of the brochure say "the life of the structure".I've seen samples but we've never used it on a project. I've always thought plastics, if kept away from UV exposure, will probably outlive most other building materials.Do you think the HDPE will disintegrate in less than 50 years? 

   Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2008 02:09am | #12

   Realistically, I think it will last and perform as intended a good hundred years which is longer than most drain systems last before silting up.But I do not think the seams will last that long.
   nor the top seal strip. After twenty years, most places have the ground near the house heaped up 8-12" higher, or settled and eroded 8'12" down lower leading rain to the foundation instead of graded away...I lioek the insurance of the coating on the wall.I have used an outfit here who installs the Delta over a spray on coating. They provide a warranteed job backed by a bond/insurance. maybe it is just a pretty piece of paper, but the work itself impresses me enough to feel confident I could lose the paper.... 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   jonblakemore | Apr 01, 2008 05:17am | #13

   Is the spray on just the typical emulsified asphalt (at least that's what I think the stuff is) or something higher grade?I struggle with basement water proofing. The tendency is to go crazy, but I'm not sure that three different types is the best use of funds. We did a Superior Walls job last year and used asphalt even though a lot of people say it's unnecessary. 

   Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

4. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2008 08:05pm | #14

   Back when I was roofing, we also did a lot of sub-grade water control, commercial and residential.NO water control job is ever complete until you have redundant systems working together. Anytime you rely on only one part or one membrane, you are being foolish, IMO. Sooner or later, it can and will fail.What I mentioned earlier sprayed on was emulsified asphalt product.The other side of the coin is the guys who say "Heck, it's a basement - It's supposed to leak!";) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   splintergroupie | Mar 30, 2008 07:32pm | #7

   On the first house i used Delta, on a concrete foundation that had leaked like a sieve, i backfilled with 1-1/4" minus drain rock. I had no way to use a whacker-packer in the narrow trench i dug by hand to get to the wall on that house, so there was some compaction afterward that pulled the membrane down and strained its attachment with the term bar, though it never completely pulled loose; it just wasn't smooth and purty. My theory was that the backfill caught in the dimples and pulled it down as it settled.Therefore, when i did the second house, the wood foundation, i had a bunch of nasty paneling i'd pulled out of that remodel that i used as a slip sleet: after the Delta was hung and the drain placed, i simply laid pieces of paneling on their long sides (i was burying the foundation only to 4-5' deep) as i backfilled. The fill (sand) compacted without getting in the dimples and pulling down the Delta. I suspect the paneling has rotted now that it's served its purpose, but the Delta remained firmly and evenly attached to the wall at the top, where it was merely tacked before i covered it with Hardie paneling.However, if you live in a place were termites abound, it's not a good idea to bury untreated wood products alongside your foundation. I looked at your profile and don't see a location for you; this information is useful to fill out as it pertains to regional differences in best practices.There's no doubt a better and more expensive method for achieving the same effect, but i was trashing the paneling anyway so it was serendipitous to have that perfect last use of it. It's most likely worth a chat to your rep to find out what a REAL contractor would do, but that worked perfectly for me.

   Edited 3/30/2008 12:33 pm by splintergroupie

2. 
   frenchy | Mar 30, 2008 08:18pm | #8

   splintergroupie,

      Welcome back.  Nice to hear from you again.   I hope you've recovered from your fall.

1. 
   splintergroupie | Mar 30, 2008 08:28pm | #9

   Not recovered, just ambulatory. I got over-excited about getting out of bed last week and suffered a setback, so i'm being a good girl now, currently undergoing chocolate therapy and reading all the Outwater catalogs.