Hi everyone. I read about the wax-free toilet gaskets in FH #168 and what timing. My wax ring has been leaking. So now that I’m in the process of fixing the mess. I like the idea of the wax-free gasket, but was wondering what people thought of it. One of the major plumbing supply places in Seattle, WA uses the FluidMaster, and they say it’s fine. A person in plumbing at Home Depot told me that the plumbers are worried about the gasket that seals the horn drying out. Does anyone have advise? They can both leak, but I’m not sure the wax-free has been out long enough to know how well it compares to wax gaskets. Any input is appreciated.
Thanks!
Ryan
Replies
Keep in mind that a wax ring won't leak unless something's moving. Whichever you use, you need to make sure the toilet doesn't move.
" One of the major plumbing supply places in Seattle, WA uses the FluidMaster, and they say it's fine. A person in plumbing at Home Depot told me that the plumbers are worried about the gasket that seals the horn drying out. Does anyone have advise?"
Well, I have no experience with the FluidMaster, but...
If I had conflicting advice from a major plumbing supply place and "a person in plumbing at Home Depot", I would be inclined to listen to the plumbing supply place.
On the other hand, I've never had a problem with the wax ring. As already posted, if installed right and the toilet doesn't move, it isn't going to leak.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
I put one in. Works well enough. Paid dividends when I had to remove and reinstall toilet multiple times to keep bathroom going during remodel.
I think they may be too new for a verdict on long-term durability. The theory seems sound though. Bet most of us can attest to the longevity of rubber 'hubless' connectors for waste. There is no reason why the seal material cannot be designed to not dry out. We have the technology...
The counter-argument is that cheap wax rings actually work very well unless something else fails, and the bowl gets loose.
One application that will have legs is with radiant floor heating. Many say the temps are generally too low to matter, but I suspect few are willing to take this gamble given the relative cost of a waxless.
Also check out Predco:
http://www.plumb-bob.com/ultraseals.html
what causes the ultraseal to continue to press up on the bottom of the toilet?
Can it float down and open the seal to the toilet?
"what causes the ultraseal to continue to press up on the bottom of the toilet?Can it float down and open the seal to the toilet?"
Just friction, but set right, it's not going anywhere. The horn of the toilet sets into the top of the Ultra Seal very well. As you tighten the bolts, it squashes into the seal just right, so it remains under positive pressure forever. Better than wax in this regard.
One other problem with wax rings besides the movement thing is if someone uses a potable radiant heater in the bathroom. Happened to someone I know. Over time it melted the wax ring. After hearing about that I decided that in the future I'll use the waxless rings. I'll still seal around the floor flange with wax though.
Well it appears that my wax ring failed after about 3 months, and I'm betting that the radiant floor mat is part of the problem. I'll post back after the plumber has come next week.ps I have a gut feeling that the plumber re-positioned the drain AFTER I had sent in the layout to Nu-Heat for the radiant floor mat.
Fluidmaster has a good product. Use it with confidence. Especially good with RFH.
I have used the toilet seal made by Fernco, and will never use a wax ring again. It appears to be made of the same rubber as their couplings. So - should last forever. It adheres to the bottom of the toilet with a strong adhesive that sticks. In removing a toilet a couple of times, it has never come off. In fact, the imprint of the toilet flange was on the underside of it. Of course, if the toilet flange is not on top of the flooring, you will not have that. But, as tight as it fits in either a 3" or 4" pipe, it does not come off of the toilet when being removed.
As far as the Fluidmaster waxless seal - used it once. Didn't like it. Won't use it again.
Bryan
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Anyone else use the gasket made by Fernco?
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
talk about timing just tonight i pulled my toliet that had a fluidmaster waxless. i have been pretty sold on these when there are some problems,like finish floor is a 1/4 low . so i had used it on mine. but every once in a while my toliet backs up .i keep plunging it but today i said thats it ,i'm going to replace the toliet. when i pulled the toilet the fluidmaster stayed in place.first reaction was great!no wax ring to dig off. but the i got to looking at it a noticed that [sorry this isn't good if your eating] but that the 3"long tube had "skid" marks on it. i'm not sure if this was causing some restriction and sometimes things were getting caught or not. but i went and got a wax ring when i put it back together. by the way the trap in the old toliet was clear,and the line is new 4" plastic.so i really don't know what to think,but i will try to limit my use of waxlessto problem toliets.i'll let you know if tomorrow my toliet backs up!!!! larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
That's great that it was securely seated on the horn. I was concerned about the narrowness of the pipe too, but the most narrow part of the whole system is the horn of the toilet. But I imagine since the pipe is narrower than 3" and about 4-5" long it could cause some problems. Definately let me know if you have the same problem with the new wax ring.
Ryan
Ask the guy in Home Depot if he actually ever plumbed anything. I'll put a Tim Hortons Double Double on the line that the only plumbing he has ever done is getting his butt plumb over the toilet seat before he released his sphincter!
My wittless remark is now concluded. I used the fluid master once. I won't again unless a customer begs for it. However for about 3 bucks Canadian you can buy a wax ring with a 3 inch plastic sleeve that extends down into the pipe below the top level of the toilet flange. I never had a problem with these.
Have a good day
Cliffy
you would think the toilet makers would have solved this one years ago -
maybe by having a pipe extension for an inch or two off the bottom of the toilet.wax rings are really stupid.A problem waiting for a solutionwhat do they do in europe?
I recall seeing toilets in Norway where the horn was positioned farther back -- like on a standard commercial toilet if you had the gooseneck continue straight down, rather than twisting back to center inside the flange.The horn was sort of external, and, close as I can recall, extended down maybe an inch below floor level. The horn fit into a hub with a rubber gasket, vs wax ring, etc. The rubber gasket could handle a lot of flex without failing, and the toilet could just be bolted down, vs relying on the flange for mounting.Yeah, the American design is really a royal mess, and someone needs to come up with a new standard. Of course, getting a new standard accepted is incredibly difficult.
seems like if part of thetoilet (discharge horn) went into the flange below the level of the top of the flange, that alone would go a long way toward stopping leaks
Yeah, basically you have to try pretty hard to get the current configuration to leak, even if there is a bad ring. Often when you get a leak it's because the toilet has physically shifted enough that it's no longer centered over the flange.
I don't know if they use the gasket for the floor connection. I visited my brother in Holland and his toilet used about a quart per flush.
Have a good day
Cliffy