Hey guys — haven’t played on Breaktime before (other than reading the exceprts in the mag). But figured this was the best forum I could think of to warn people about Knob Depot (www.knobdepot.com). I just placed an order for @ $80 in sample knobs and pulls; the website told me I was eligible for free shipping, and they sent me an e-mail confirming my purchase. When I went back to check the order status a few days later, I discovered they had added in almost $21 and never told me about it. When I complained, they first claimed that they would NEVER add additional charges to someone’s credit card without authorization. When I asked for a fax number so that I could show them my order printout, they changed their tune and told me it was because I wasn’t eligible for free shipping (because it was a sample order — of course, the website says “If you qualify for free shipping, that option will be shown as well”; it showed up, I clicked it, and they processed the order). When I tried to cancel the order, they told me that samples were nonreturnable. Ultimately, they agreed to allow me to return the pulls, but I’m still liable for shipping and a 25% restocking fee. So I’m still out @ $40, and now with nothing to show for it.
I’ve done a fair bit of on-line shopping and never had a merchant charge my card for more than I authorized, much less without even notifying me. So I figure the least I can do is put a word of warning out to folks in the industry — there are so many places that sell this stuff, there’s just no reason to use an unethical one.
Replies
file a complaint with your CC company.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Part of the value in your post is getting it off your chest. Done!
However, we need to have the other side of the story to draw a fair and just conclusion.
Woodway, you're absolutely right. Wish I could provide all of stuff. In an attempt to be fair, I will tell you that they told me that there is language on their website that says that samples are not eligible for free shipping. I have no reason to dispute that -- I know I didn't see it on their main page (which says "Free Shipping! on all orders over $75 in the Continental US") or on their shipping page, both of which I read before ordering, but I'm sure it's there somewhere. Their shipping page does say "Any additional shipping mentioned above will be added to your order if needed" -- but the rest of the page talks about extra costs for different locations, so that's what I thought they were referring to. What she told me on the phone was that some people go through the site and don't select any shipping option, so they don't get shipping charges added, so the company adds that in later to avoid fraud. But my confirmation e-mail says I chose UPS Ground (the "free" method), so that's not what happened here.
But then again, you don't know me from Adam, so yeah, you do need to take this all with a grain of salt. And yeah, I am very angry -- not just at the fact that their website is screwed up enough that let me place an order with no apparent shipping charges if I wasn't eligible for it (despite the statement on the shipping page that says free shipping only shows up if you're eligible for it), and that they then added on the shipping without telling me, but at their response. All they did was quote website language to justify the shipping charges; and when I complained about them adding it on after the fact, her initial response was "This CLEARLY showed up before you ordered" and "We would NEVER charge a card without this first being stated on our web site before placing an order." (caps hers). Only after I demanded a fax number to send them my printout did she come up with the, well, some people try to circumvent the shipping charges so we do add it on afterwards explanation.
But to be fair, they did make an exception to their "no returns on samples" policy. So instead of being out $80, I'm out $40. Which I guess is better. I'm just ticked that I could have spent $0 if they'd just notified me of the $$ change when they first noticed it (ie, by sending a modified version of the order confirmation they sent when I first made the order), so I could have cancelled the order before things had shipped.
It's a principal kinda thing. I get it.
It's like bring your lawyer with you if your gonna order from us.
I have been very happy with the control I get by using the discover card. When I get a problem/runaround I freeze the deal and get the list of documentation.
I say you should not pay anything 0$ and I would contest the charge.
What is fraud? what is a contract. If obfuscation is the way they want to play than make them spend some time to get paid.
I'm gonna take a look at their site and see what it looks like.
On the main page if you click on the "samples offer" It states about mid way down that free shipping does not apply to samples.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
Yeah -- unfortunately, I didn't go through the "samples offer" page (didn't see it), just went right to browsing the catalogs and checking the ones I wanted to see in person. I was smart enough to check out their shipping policy page before I ordered, and that didn't say anything about the samples issue, just that free shipping would pop up as an option if I qualified. So when it popped up, I selected it and didn't think twice about it. I guess maybe a pro would have known to look for a specific samples policy, but I didn't.
I certainly agree they have a right to their policy (when I think about it, it makes sense). It just seems to me that if it is their policy, their website should be set up to charge you the right amount up front, so you know what you're getting into. Or if they discover it after the fact, tell you about the error in time for you to cancel or modify it. (for ex., here, I only ordered one pull from one of the vendors -- I'd have happily cancelled that one if I'd known, because there's no sense in paying $6.95 shipping for a $4 pull. But that one arrived before I even knew they had changed the amount of my order, so I'm now on the hook for the shipping and restocking fee regardless).
BTW, thanks for the posts, guys. I'm actually impressed that y'all took the time to check out the site and all. :-)
So how do they determine if it's a sample order? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
> So how do they determine if it's a sample order? It doesn't get free shipping.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
oh ok, thanks for splaining <g>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
Most excellent, DanH.Scarecrow, I think their "sample" policy says if you just order one of each item, they consider it a "sample" order.
I guess if you had (be it - reluctently) paid the $21.00 shipping charge, you would only be out $21.00 and have the knobs, instead of being out $40.00 and have nothing.
Later, you could have sent them an email and told them you ordered the knobs from another company, becasue of their discourtesy.
Edited 3/1/2007 6:49 pm ET by txlandlord
What is the difference between ordering samples, or $80.00 of assorted knobs ?
according to their site it says(Any orders containing all single quantities will be deemed sample orders. Free shipping is not available on sample orders. )
You will be charged our regular low price for the samples at the time you place the order plus the appropriate shipping fee for each manufacturer.
Based upon the text from their 'samples' page, it appears that the manufacturers may be drop shipping the products. Otherwise, why would there be a shipping fee for each manufacturer? I guess that they are counting on 'real' orders going to a single manufacturer, thus minimizing their shipping costs.
If the shipping fee is higher for your location, you will see it before completing the checkout.
In any event, they imply that their cart software will accurately represent the shipping costs, and shipping charges should have been visible to the buyer prior to checkout. The bottom line is that knobdepot should be closing any 'loopholes' in their shopping cart software, and refunding the disputed shipping charges.
The seller had a chink in their armor by not covering the possibility that someone might bypass the samples page and order direct thus in that sense they are wrong even tho' it is clearly worded on that samples page.
In this respect the sellers blew it big time by not catering to the buyer as the reason they are there is to sell.
To take an isolated instance as this and not turn it into a selling opportunity is short sighted if that is the management position and not just the response of the individual salesperson manning the phone.
If this same situation truly happens enough to warrant going thru the complications of various charges, return mailing and refund procedures for an $80 sample purchase then the sellers are still at fault by not attending to their website to clarify the matter already.
It's a freaking sample package for their own knobs fer crying out loud and they are dancing for $21 shipping and handling charges with what at one time was a potential buyer of their merchandise? Roar!
Heck, carpet companies invite you to contact them for their free carpet samples no expenses at all and this company says they hope you turn on your friends with the samples when you are finished with them.
I thinking the phone personal involved here may solely be the culprit which may mean the management is at fault by not catching the issue in training.
In this issue IMHO it is a no brainer to say the seller gets the View Image .
I'm with you on that. Just think of all the x vertising they are getting for not being reasonable or correct.
I went to the site and it does show that(Any orders containing all single quantities will be deemed sample orders. Free shipping is not available on sample orders) But if as you say(When I asked for a fax number so that I could show them my order printout, they changed their tune and told me it was because I wasn't eligible for free shipping (because it was a sample order -- of course, the website says "If you qualify for free shipping, that option will be shown as well"; it showed up, I clicked it, and they processed the order)It appears they made a mistake and are now trying to recoup the mistake costs. Cause if your printout originally showed the charge you would not have ordered or tried to get some adjustment.
So it appears to me, by those facts to be their error.
I only like paying for my errors. Hey ya hear that GWB oops sorry different subject.
write the creditcard company you dispute the charges and don't pay anything until this absolutely cleared. In that case you are not out of any $ up til then.