I know NOTHING about welding but I have the need to learn how. Many times I would like to build somthing out of steel rather than lumber.
I would like to know what type of welder I need to buy. For instance, I woul dlike to build my own micro trailer to pull behind my riding mower. Or, I have an idea for a narrow wheelborrow I would like to build. Also, repair work on my property. What type of welder best suits my needs?….and how much will it cost me?
thanks
Replies
How about taking a welding course first? At the course you can find out about the different machines available, and pick the brain of the instructor. You'll also find out if you will really like welding and have the ability to pick it up to your satisfaction.
What Wayne said.
Gas welding is easiest on the pocket, you need a nozzle, some hose, and then the bottled gas. Depending on how close you are to a gass supply place will define how expensive.inexpensive that is. And, for cutting, there's not much to beat gas.
Next step up is electrical resistance welding. This gets you to Lincoln, bobcat and the like welders. You then have to decide on whether or not you want a genset combined with the welder of not.
Good news there, is that you can select units that will TiG or MIG as well as stick weld. Bad news is that these are often not light units--InverTec V350 is 81# not including a genny.
Ok, just looked, Miller Bobcat 225 is only 520# and with a new MSRP of $4k.
And, it's never just the welder, you need a rack for hoses and/or cables, a bin for nozzles/holders, another for rods, and a spot for stuf like spark igniters and such. Oh, and a toolbox/ holder for a grinder. If you are a part-time user, you should include a spot for the shoulder cape, gloves, and your mask. Oh, and a healthy-size ABC fire extinguisher is cheap insurance.
Do not scrimp on the mask. And figure to have 2-3 pair of gloves.
Any of that help any?
For that type of use, a small(110v) MIG would be fine. If you're going to be welding 3/16"+ a 220v MIG would be better suited. If you'll be doing the welding indoors, then the gas shielding kit is worth it, if mostly outside just use flux-core wire. -The gas shielding gives a much cleaner result, but the gas can be blown around outside. Flux core wire leaves an awful mess behind it, but you can weld in the wind.
And...you can run flux core wire through a gas setup if you need to for occasional outdoor welding.
Brand-wise, Miller is outstanding but can be pricey for occasional use. Lincoln Electric is very good and a bit more affordable. Try to stay away from the no-names at PepBoys, JCWhitney, etc. There's a lot more to a properly functioning welder than the specs on the box.("Welds up to 1/4 inch steel!" -Yeah, if you want to spend 2 hours stitching instead of 2 minutes running a perfect bead.)
It's far better money spent for $200 on a lightly used Lincoln on Craigslist, then on a new POS.
point taken, and delivered well! Lincoln it is!
I second the vote for a 120V MIG welder - love my two little used ones (Miller Cricket and a Schumacher). I can build a whole car with them.
Forrest
There are several web sites that literally hold your hand if you jump into the welding world.
Start here:
http://smartflix.com/store/video/6222/Welder-University
The Lincoln 225 is a nice machine to start arc welding , reasonably cheap ($250) .
with machine and the outfit will run you about 600-700 new. Used about half that Craigslist comes to mind but forget about immediacy.
Someone mentioned gas welding, The big difference between gas and arc , the arc weld is more brittle. Where is gas weld or braze is more pliable and has less restrictions in expansion and contraction. There a lot more then that, but that's a very basic description of the two. Google again is your friend.
another vote for finding a class somewhere and starting out with a gas torch, learn technique, coordination, material prep, and also how not to grab stuff with your bare hand
I was lucky enough to use lots of different machines in various conditions, some good, some lousy, but the cutest welding machine had to be the suitcase sized Miller Maxstar. it's only for stick though, but there is a combo rig for a few hondo more
it does have some limits to the length of the welding leads, because you can't make them longer, but it is small and will work on either 110 or 220
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Mild hijack.The local Votech used to offer adult education courses in a range of subjects like this: welding, auto body, masonry, etc. with a basic intro class and then a range of advanced specialized forms. It was a great place to get the basics of a skillset that you always wanted to know but didn't want to make a career of. It all got swept away in budget cuts a few years back.Sigh.=====Zippy=====
that's damn shame, and folks wonder why some of us can't change a light bulbI went to a HS that had 2 curriculums, Technical, And Architectural. and was also all boys
I chose Tech, because the Archys had to take 4 years of Math, and 4 years of Drafting
I only had 3 and 2
but all of us had to take Shop, pick any four
Wood,
Electric,
Print, we made our own yearbooks...
Machine,
Foundry,
Welding,
Auto,
and..Aviation, those dudes rebuilt a Cessna
most of those classes are gone now, replaced by computer labs, robotics, or A/V labs
and they have girls in there too.........
.
.. . . . . . . .
the best welder out there for beginning is the lincoln ac-dc 225. want learn to weld get a box of 50 lb 7018 weld in dc at about 120 amps. dont come out till you run out of rods
everybody want to mig weld because its the in thing now, but mig is not easy. stick is hundred percent easier. with mig everything needs to be clean and prep. stick you just weld.
Edited 5/4/2009 11:52 am by brownbagg
Plus you can make a stick welder out of a couple of car batteries and a winding if you really want to: http://www.lcool.org/technical/80_series/bat_weld/battery_welding.htmlMy little brother was a maritime engineer and told me about the countless hours he spent welding new deck plates on his ship. Only stick would work in those conditions and he'd go through boxes of sticks in a day. Z
One summer I was chief mate on this old beater of a tug down in Norfolk, Virginia, and was constantly having to weld the thing back together. I'm not much more than a stick-it-together welder, but the chief engineer on one of the company's other boats was a shipfitter out of one of the big Norfolk shipyards; he'd spent more time welding in a week than I've spent in my whole life. He edumacated me some, thank bog.
According to him: Best stick welder in the world was the old Lincoln Red Head because it contained its own DC generator. DC is smoother and easier especially for klutzes like me. (At that time--early 90s--MIG and TIG were only found in high-end welding shops and shipyards; nobody sold them for DIYers.) So he taught me it was worth the trouble to go and get the Red Head and hand-truck it down to the dock instead of using the cheap shop welder in the engine room.
He also told me: "Just take it one puddle at a time." And, "Give me a dime to start with and enough welding rods, and I'll build you a whole tugboat."
He and I went 'up the street' for a few brews one afternoon, and on the way he wanted to stop by the home of this kid he knew from the shipyard. Said he had a problem with the steel on his boat cracking and couldn't get good welds on it. This surprised me quite a bit as I thought my bud was the best welder I'd ever seen.
So we went by to see this skinny, 18-y-o black kid who listened to my bud's tale, scratched his head for a moment or two, then replied: "Ah'll bet that ol' boat is one o' them WWII surplus tugs they built on contract in '42. They used this special steel called 'MIL-spec' an' the stuff had too little carbon content so it cracked. Y'all gotta use a special rod to weld that stuff..." and he named the rod and specified how many amps and....
My head was spinning before he got halfway thru his explanation, but everything he said turned out to be right. And that boat was built 30 years before that kid was even born....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 5/6/2009 3:46 pm ET by Dinosaur
Great story. I welded a tiny bit back in college, but have always had a desire to pick it up again to do some artsy fartsy stuff and to have around for small stuff. I just may look for that Lincoln red-head on E-bay & find a class at the local vo-tech school. Just 'cause I'm curious.
I just may look for that Lincoln red-head on E-bay
Good luck. Lincoln stopped making them sometime in the 60s or early 70s from what I understood. That machine was already old when I was using it back in the late 80s; my shipfitter buddy told me they were fairly rare even then and that the one on the dock had been there since his father had worked there 20 years earlier.
If you find one, it looks kinda like a fireplug with a rounded top. That domed top was painted red, hence the name 'Red Head'.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Is there anything on the market today that's comparable?
lincoln pipeliner
Thanks Brownie
A lot of people don't want to learn to be a welder. But they do want to learn enough to be able to weld a few pieces of steel together. Enough to make a cart or a garden gate, etc. I've taught many of them how to mig in about ten minutes. They still need some supervision, but they are off and running with their project. Trying to develop the skill to make a neat weld using smaw (stick) takes hours of practice for most everyone. And it's a skill that needs refreshing. For the novice who has no aspirations to be a pipeliner or structural welder... mig wins the day everytime.That said, I love my little 120volt Miller DC tig/smaw machine. It's portable and burns very clean and smooth. And it doesn't need a bottled gas for smaw. I've never liked dual shield wire for mig.
I got the miller mig too, but once you learn on a stick you can weld anything
Stick welding is, of course, important to a welder. But I think the discussion at hand has to do more with the occasional worker than the full timer or even, part timer for that matter. As far as being able to weld anything... I think one can't approach the ability to weld everything until tig has been added to the bag o' tricks. And for that, I will admit, a foundation in oxy/acet is a very handy thing to have. But I'd never advocate the gas process for the weekender welder to use on trailer fabrication. For the record... I've got all these processes in my shop and I'm passable at them all. But if I could only have one (in my shop)... I'll keep my mig machine with its cumbersome bottles of gas. Mig allows me to weld far thinner metal than I've ever been able to do with stick... and my work calls for thin steel (16 ga. or so) much of the time.
if you go in and burn 50lb of rod,be sure tio wear a long sleeve shirt. if not you'll be as red as a lobster..................YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
rare is the day I don't weld something... today we finished up the awning frames for my patio condo units...
I don't know how people build anything without being able to weld it's that much a part of my everyday life... i build a tool 2-3x a month... this week i welded up a pole that fit in the reciever hitch of my forester and extended out so i could carry 16ft baseboard on the roof rack... 26pc to be exact... took me less than 15min to weld it up...
all that said... my vote would be for a 110v hobart 130... very nice little machine that i turn to when my big miller isn't around... i have a nice air products stick machine that lays a very nice bead.. far better than most stick welders for some reason... and a ranger8 thats a gas powered stick machine... that more often i use for a generator to run my mig when i'm away from power... unless i need the 200ft of lead for the stick...
I believe you can read about and play with welding and you can become pretty good... better if someone shows you... I'm not a huge fan of flux core wire... if you get the mig get the gas... I use CO2 vs an argon mix... it's far cheaper and for me welds just as well...
if money is an object... then i'd hunt for a used Hobart or miller on craigs list vs a new no name machine...
northern tool sells hobart and often has sales and 10% off if you open an account...
good luck...
BTW about everyone who has ever worked around me i have given welding lessons to... about 15min of hands on instruction and i turn em loose on scrap... most are make'n good welds on flat clean steel in less than 30 min
P:)
Whatever you decide to get look in Craigslist. There are a fair number of used welders in there.
Will Rogers
Sounds like i am in the same boat as you, always wanted to build with metal but didn't know where to start. This winter I had the opportunity to weld with a friend who has an old lincoln stick and a hobart mig. First used the 220 stick, went well but not that great. Then tried out the mig with flux core, machine only 110, much easier for me than the stick. After borrowing for a couple weeks broke down and got my own. I decided on miller 211 which is 110/220, also picked up a bottle of argon/co2. My new miller blows the little hobart away, so glad i bought the bigger machine. Found it on ebay for 945 with free shipping and miller has a $75 rebate. From everything i read 1st time welders biggest regret was buying to small a machine. Good luck.
900 is double..Almost triple what I want to pay. I can see maybe 450. Today I wanted to redo my wooden gate that I meticulously half-lapped and polyurethan glued together last year. ...it sagged. Conclusion: a welded gate would never sag....need to learn to weld.
Built an onion rack last year and it cost my client $450,...(it was a really nice onion rack :) ) Realized how much better it would have been on a welded frame......Need to learn how to weld.
buy any welder you want as long as it lincoln, hobart or miller, stay away from the rest. i would not even buy a century. Miller had some 135 mig around $600. any welder from harbor freight dont even think about.
Edited 5/8/2009 6:43 am by brownbagg
Our local community colleges offers courses in welding. I didn't see anything geared towards non-career courses but you might be able to find something in your area. Looks like about $330 per course and you'd need one "general" welding plus whatever type of welding you'd like to learn.
Some years ago I had a friend who had a ornamental iron shop and from time to time I've give him a hand. I can tell you that TIG is a whole heck of a lot easier to learn than stick. Of course, the set up costs a lot more too. Just depends on your budget.
The auto-darkening shield's beat the heck out of flipping your head a just the right second too.
Good luck!
"Repair work on my property"
Well, that will dictate your choices more than anything.
Outside of oxy/acetylene setyps, welding machines need power. Some welding machines have a built in generator and range from small $$$ to big $$$$.
Anything over around 140A of output is going to be a 220v machine, inverter or not.
Do you own a generator? How big is it? Can it supply 220V?
140A of output sounds like a lot, but it isn't. That machine on 120V AC is going to draw every bit of 20A. Use of an extension cord is not suggested at all unless you own a 10ga cord. Maximum steel capacity is going to be 3/16" to 1/4". The 120V machines do not put out enough to get good penetration on thicker metals- even though it "looks" good.
I would strongly suggest running a flux core wire on a 110V machine. There are much fewer shielding gas issues in windy conditions and the polarity is different, so the weld is hotter, resulting in better penetration. Drawback is appearance and a little more slag. Initial cost is lower, as you will not need a gas bottle or regulator to start welding steel.
You can add a gas bottle and regulator to many 110V machines. Some even take a spool gun, allowing the MIG welding of aluminum.
Stepping up to 220V will get you 180A to 225A of output on a 30A to 50A circuit... but you lose portability. P=I x E, so 220 x 50 means you need a generator capable of at least 11,000 watts to run it at a full 225A weld output.
Lincoln makes a nice little 140A, 120V machine. According to their competitor comparison page on their website, it is built better than the Blue models. You can pick one up brand new at the Blue or Orange box store for around $550. Online may be a bit less, but you will probably get better service from your LWS than the other 3 options if you need it.
Stick welding has a learning curve to it, but an even lower entry price. A new Lincoln AC/DC tombstone will run just north of $200, but it is a 220V machine.
Multiprocess inverters are well into the 4 figure range.
Just a thought: Before you buy anything why don't you take a welding course at a local BOCES school or community college. In this case alittle knowledge will go a long way.
When it was time to upgrade from gas(oxy-acetylene) to TIG I went to a welding shop, not Home Depot or Lowes, they spent the afternoon, actually most of the day, with me to select and learn the machine. I may have spent a little extra but the experience and relationship was well worth it. They actually talked me out of some expensive extras.