OK,
In the time of a Stop Loss and a Reduction in Force all at once, I’ve stopped planning for After the Army and have decided to get something going now so that I have something else working.
Pre 9/11 I had a partner. Not so much for framing or trim or stairs, but to work on another project.
Small, well built affordable homes on ok size lots, in commute distance of a work area and other amenities, and at a price that would only buy you a townhouse 10-15 minutes closer to center city.
I’ve been doing Army stuff and he had some life changes ( Say divorce with me) but we are both back on some kind of track now. I can trust him to handle things if I’m away, but yes, I’ll get all the details hammered out in some kind of LLC or LLP.
Some stars have lined up as of late and I may never be this close to it again. So, we are going to look at some land on Saturday.
Now, after all that, here’s my question:
This is a line item list of costs. What am I missing? There simply won’t be a huge profit in this to cover big mistakes.
1. Land (to include closing costs and commisions if any)
2. Permits, hook up fees, inspection fees etc…………
3. Excavating/site work To include digging a foundation, installing a septic and well or making mechanical connections to existing public systems. Backfilling and grading. CUtting a driveway as needed
4. Foundation/ flat work to include sidewalks if needed.
5. Framing to include lumber costs
6. Roofing, Siding, Windows ,Doors, gutters and downspouts to include labor.
7. Rough and finish Electrical to include standard fixtures
8. Rough and finish Plumbing to include standard fixtures
9 Rough and finish heating and cooling
10. Insulation
11. Drywall
12. Interior trim to include Stairs and all cabinetry
13. Paint, prime finish and touch up.
14. Floor coverings
15. Any exterior decks, porches or patios.
16. Final grading, seeding or sod and landscaping.
17. paving of driveway if needed
18. Touch-up, punch list, pre closing cleaning.
19. Utility costs while home is on the market.
20. Closing costs/Commisions
21. Any carrying/ Construction loan costs.
22. Any Misc cost such as mid job clean up or over sights that might occur.
These are the costs I’ve pinned to the first and any subsequent units.
It should go without saying that the venture itself will have costs such as insurance and administrative costs.
Ok, Rip this apart and tell em what I’ve missed.
I don’t see this as a once and done deal. If it were possible for the two of us to build and sell twelve of these a year, it could be a comfortable living.
My goal would be to streamline things and hopefully become recognized enough locally to possibly option some land and pay for each lot as the unit sold instead of up front.
Replies
property tax?
.
BOB thinks I,m an idiot
And that's why I asked. I'm sure you won't be the only one who finds an omission.
Oops, I see you included insurance.
How about garage doors? Fireplace? B-vent?Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Left off fireplace of any kind. Garage doors is lumped in with windows and doors.
Good. Are you sure your HVAC contractor is including the flue? In the NE, that's usually a seperate contractor.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Engineering,
Surveying
Impact fees / Open space
Thanks.
It will be lot by lot at first so open space won't be an issue until later in the game.
Did miss surveying.
Thanks
Liability and builder's risk insurance.
Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
First thing we put on the job, & the last to Go (pun)
$800-$1000 in cost.
Once worked on a job where the lady nextdoor called the health department because she couldn't see the Porta-John and assumed it wasn't there.
Had the builder so Pi$$ed that he informed us that anyone caught taking a whizz anywhere but over the silt fence and into her yard would never work for him again.
Potra-john company came ever Tuesday and Friday and "emptied" an empty porta john
Here's a list.
The devil is in the details. :-)
Wow ,
that does cover every singlel ine item.
In the past when I've run jobs for others, I've used a system of modules like how I broke it down in my original post. Then, each module contained prices for items as they applied to the job.
Most of what you have listed would be included in one of them. OF course, before there was someone around to check my work. Not this time.
One thing I did see on your spreadsheet that I did not account for, and could be expensive: Bonding. Never even thought of that. That'll be a question for Monday after we look at this land.
I do like the "Sunday Work Permit" Line. Neevr seen that before.
Thank You.
How about design fees/expenses?Frank
All stock plans.
Thats about the only way it will work for this market.
That might need to be an Item for later on though.
My goal would be to streamline things and hopefully become recognized enough locally to possibly option some land and pay for each lot as the unit sold instead of up front.
Robert, if your goal is to option the land, I'd start with that as my first offer.
An alternative is to buy on a Land Contract, or Contract for Deed. It's done all the time around here in the big subs. The builders never really have a deed to the land until a half hour before they close with their buyers.
The owners of the land don't really risk anything by allowing you to buy on contract. When you start improving the land with a foundation and house, you solidify their security because of the improvements.
Around here it also typical to leave the interest payments on the land contract accrue, so essentially there is no montly payments on the properties. Some do it differently by making intermitent lump sum payments.
Anything is possible when dealing with raw land, so make sure your first offer leaves the door open for whatever your ultimate goal is. Don't feel compelled to lay out large lump sums of cash. The developers might not have that much cash layed out to do their entire development!
blue
I've been following your thread.
Gotta go see the land first. Don't know who owns it or what their situation is. Development is already done. Have to fish and see what they might be interested in.
If I can option the lots, and the numbers work, I might be able to bring in a family member for financing and do two at once.
Push come to shove, if it's the right deal, I could sign for one personally and carry the Loan/ Mortgage if need be. Not my first choice but the option is out there.
Talked to a friend who is in banking on the commercial side and often finances this kind of stuff. He says the banks are getting a little concerned about new inventory and might tighten things up a little in the near future.
Know more on Saturday.
Blue,
Went to see the land today. Not sure. I need to do two things at this point.
1. Carefully consider what will sell there
2. Check the Commute to Center City.
Gas prices are on the way up here again and I've got to think on how that effects my pricepoint and area selection.
I still think the SIngle Family starter is a homerun around here.
Gotta think on it. Not for too long.
Robert, those are the million dollar questions!
We looked at a lot of different things but continuously sought out land in areas that had a lot of competition. Competition means activity and activity is contageous.
blue
perc test?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Didn't catch that either.
The land were going to look at was recently prec'd and we'll get those results. In the future? Maybe not. Another item to add to the list.
Thing that kills me? I had all of these cost broken down for the plan I want use. I moved my home office two years ago to make room for my youngets and now I can't find the file. NOt a shred of paper, not one piece.
Worst of all, it wasn't just estimates, but actual prices given by the people who were gonna do the work. Oh well.
I'd suggest an explicit contingency fund. Also a factor for inflation. (Material costs, etc. will be higher towards the end of construction.) Also don't see anything for dump runs and disposal costs.
If you're obtaining financing, shouldn't you include supervision? Even if you're supervising things yourself, you should be paid for this out of a loan as a hard cost, rather than as "what's left over" when it gets sold. If you don't have a line item for it now, you might not be able to get it later.
Nice catch on the Disposal. I have to check on a dumpster for my house for the next project. I'll have to get some info.
Supervision is an issue as both of us will be splitting the responsibilities for it. Once it becomes more than one project, I'll have to look at that again.
I've been trying to come up with a fair way to figure Supervision costs and I'm stumped. It won't be a full time job for anyone. A percentage? A salary?
That's a problem for another day once I've made sure I've got a Complete job plan to supervise.
I've been trying to come up with a fair way to figure Supervision costs and I'm stumped. It won't be a full time job for anyone. A percentage? A salary?
Budget for supervision: 600hrs @ $35 = $21000
Track each officers super time
Robert = 2 hrs
Other = 398 hrs
Pay by % total hours worked as super
Robert = 2/400x21000= $9.050047
Easy. Fair ;)SamT
you missed #1:
#1 READ and STUDY the spec house from hell thread
Did it already.
Three times in fact. Timing is everything and it looks like unbeknownst to him, Boss's timing just wasn't right.
The plan is to get the whole thing as close to Finished as possible. Painted in a geneeric color, Cabinets in, might leave the carpet for them to choose.
Other than that, it is what it is. i'm trying to eliminate relying on luck as much as I can but sometimes, luck is stillabig part of it.
Appliances?
One thing not related to your question:
Are you sure you want / need a partnership?
I have been in a few related to a landscape / pool company I purchased , and would not recommend a partnership.
So what's the deal Robert?
I've had this book marked to check in on..............[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eric,
looked at the land and while it is a little farther away than I would like, it's still saleable.
Ordered a plan but haven't had much chance to look at it and start doing any take-offs.
I'm still gonna drive forward with it but a few things may delay or cause me to change course slightly.
First, I have no Kitchen right now. Been putting it off for too long and It really needs done. Floor will be in Next Friday, Countertops Monday the 22. Appliances on stand by.
Second, I got a letter from the IRS about a month ago. Someone I did work for in 2000 paid me the $1093.00 I billed them. I have a 1099 with that number on it from the company. the IRS shows a payment of $11093. Big difference. Almost $10K in tax, interest and penalties and such.
Since I'm not in business anymore, and neither is my old accountant, I had to find a new one. While resolving this issue, and checking for some other ones, the new accountant discovered that I had paid maybe $10K too much in taxes over a 4 year period. She also discovered a few discrepencies that could cost me big down the road. So, we're fixing them now. She's not charging me an arm and a leg but I do have to do some work myself. Dollar Wise? I'll break even she tells me.
My old accountant came reccomended to me by several friends who use him. Wonder how many might have the same issues I have?
Third, I've been helping the Teenager I let live in my house ( My son but some days I wonder) look at colleges.
Fourth, and this is the big one. New homes, any home sales for that matter, have slowed down pretty hard around here in the last two months. That actually encourages me as I believe it will create a market where people won't just be looking at " Can we get something" But rather " Is what we're getting worth it".
I did make an offer on the land but it was low. I'm going to wait a while and go back. Plenty of lots left.
If I get the land I'll start planning for an early spring 2007 ground breaking.
They way things have been going, major deployments are announced in the fall and the troops report in early January. So by January 15th I'll know if I'll be home in the spring of 2007 or not.
By the way, how far is Larchmont from you?
Hmmmmmmmmm.........lots going on.
Larchmont is about an hour south or so of Brewster (here), pobably about 40 miles.
What's there?
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Sister has a house there.
My son and I are going to help out for a weekend or two with some big stuff. She has a lot of little projects and her and all over her neighbors can't seem to find anyone interested in smaller projects.
No one wants to even come look at somethign under $20K.
Haven't been to her house yet but my son tells me $1Mil doesn't buy much there.
There is probably 1950's Capes in that area that are close to 1million depending on what street they are on.
We just started looking again around here, anything decent is mid 300 and up. With taxes at 7-10k and 4k of oil for heat we are not buying much..........for mid to low 200's we can buy a one or two room shack in a lake community full of failing septics and polluted wells.
I'm ready to committ my wife due to depression.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I feel your pain.
Pre-Qual says I can afford between $325K and $450K depending on what lender you ask. why such a big spread? I have no idea.
Anyway, $300 will get you a 30 year old Split or bi level that needs work. Or, a ten year old well built house on less than 1/8 of an acre.
$299K and down is town house or Twin.
We looked at a house that we could have bought ten years ago for $144K. it's listed for $347K.
That's one of the things that led to this idea.
I've come to the conclusion that I'll stay put until my son is out of College. That will free up an additional $1K per month. Maybe then I can afford something.
Eric,
Just a little update.
Ready to sit down with the bank at this point. Was bringing on a partner. He and I have been partners before and have no issues. But when I called to talk to him about it the other day, before I even brought it up, he told me how he just bought his new girlfriend a car and then found out he owed Uncle Sam $20K from last year and didn't put away a dime.
I smell backup withholding on his end and I don't need that hassle.
Pretty sure I can float it alone but I want to check.
I'm gonna continue to do some market research and plan for a first thaw groundbreak.
robert.. i'm confused.... are you on active duty or not.. still in the guards ?
next question... you comming to TipiFest ?
and what about you , Eric.. have you signed up yet ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Still stuck here. Turns out if you pass 12 yrs of service and are an SSG or above on active duty, you are in it for the long haul. My current seperation date is 20 Apr 2034 but I can retire at 20 years. Caught a bunch of us by surprise when we went to renew our ID cards for security reasons. Turns out a bunch of senior NCO's wanted Indef ID cards like officers get. Well, they got em. Turns out they aren't really happy with how they got em. The Army on the other hand is very happy.
In the grand scheme of things there is a huge grey area that surrounds guys like me. On active duty but assigned to a state command under Title 32. Maybe I can ETS when my original ETS was or maybe not.
I'm reluctant to push the issue at this point with little to fall back on and a kid starting college.
On the otherhand, if I could get this up off the ground and running, and I saw no deployments in my near future, I might push the issue. I wouldn't at this point skip out on a deployment. We've been on again off again for sometime now but all points to maybe 2010. If this is making money by end of year 2007 I might be willing to fight the fight.
I've got little incentive to fight it at this age so I can go build decks and install stairs and build rails.
Truth is the Army pays me the equivilant of about $85K a year or so and I've got kids and bills so stepping back to $35K a year for a few years isn't a realistic option.
I won't get PCS'd anywhere that I can't commute to from here unless I really pi$$ someone off. Although, i could find myself travelling up to 90 mins, my kids won't move or change schools.
It's awful hard to fight something that has been ingrained in you since you were 11. No matter how little sense it makes.
All of the above was the reason for a partner, but as you can see he's lost his mind. The power of pu...................... never mind.
When is Tipi fest?
39 days & a wakeup... (Aug. 17th - 20 th )
early birds roll in on Thursday... eat all Andy's food, drink all his beer..
leave on Sunday...
some only show up for the big day on Saturday
got a call from Mississippi yesterday... some dude wanted to know if i was me
turns out he was in my OCS class and he hunted me down..
he stayed in....got out... went back in.. retired as a Brigadier...
interesting how your past catches up with youMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Got something going on end of August. I'll have to check my calander at the office tomorrow.