is stabila that much better than empire?
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Stabila is a lot more expensive and I can't see that it's any better. In fact, I like the configuration of the Empire True Blue much better - much more ergonomic.
e80 Series Heavy-Duty Aluminum Level
Empire Level E80 series heavy duty level, vari-pitch vial reads from level to 1/2-inch pitch in 1/8-inch increments True Blue vial equipped. True Blue vials accurate to within 0.00050 in. per inch in all 10 level & plumb working positions. Heavy-duty 6061 aircraft aluminum chassis. 300-degree view top-reading level vial. Solid block acyrlic vials won't break leak or fog. Milled edges for accuracy. Dual molded rubber endcaps for extreme shock resistance Solid Heavy-Duty I-beam "gunmetal" aluminum frame
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Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
what are you a sales rep for empire? I don't know that much about any tool I own. ;-)"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
what are you a sales rep for empire?
No, but that's the level I recently ordered and I just cut and pasted the blurb from Amazon.com where I got it.
I don't like box levels. I-beams have many handholds.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 3/25/2008 10:45 pm ET by Riversong
Not to jump on you but I looked at them and I do like to see where things are made.
It's a big factor on discretionary purchases.
I don't think I'll change the world with trying to not support the PRC. But I will feel a little better with who I see in the mirror.
And when it comes to looking in the mirror I need all the help I can get.
I always prefer to buy as locally as possible.
But, for manufactured goods, there's little left that is not at least in part made or assembled in some distant land, even though an American corporation has their logo on it.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
I think the Johnson box beam is hard to beat for accuracy and price.
Stabila comes with a price tag, is accurate and labels the owner with competence.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
I had a 4' Stabila magnetic level that I felt was not quite right, took it to a local dealer and had a new one in a week.
How come it took a week?Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
The thing about Stabila levels IMO is not their accuracy but their precision. I can detect a sub 32nd out of plumb with my 6'-8.
That level of precision is not really necessary a lot of times IMO. Sure, if you are building the queen's jewelry box it's one thing, but framing a house, how close to level do you have to be?
I think anything with solid acrylic vials is about as good as they get. The empire is fatter than the stabilla. On the one hand, it takes up more room and doesn't fit is as tight of a space. On the other hand, it seems less likely to bend. But when it comes down to it, I don't think one is more level than the other. I have the stabilla, but if I was buying one today I'd get the empire and save myself aboutr $50.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
I think the yellow Johnson is made in Austria. Who knows, it might be made in the same plant that makes Stabila's. I think it's got the same lifetime guarantee. It's cheaper. I've got Stabilas but if I was buying new, I might consider the yellow box beam Johnsons.
it's still hard to beat the stabili
Like mostcarp. I have dropped most every brand.
Unlike most brands the stabili still reads proper.
I admit I don't have any of the other look a likes, I'm kind of partial to
one I know I can trust.
I like stabila because I know it is accurate every time, and I don't need to check it. The extra money is a small price vs. fixing something that is off and already finished. Also, the lifetime guarantee is only worth what the company says it is. 80% of the companies will find some way to weasel out of the replacement, I know stabila will not. I'm surprised that the other poster needed a week to get a replacement, if I go to my local dealer, they'll give me one right away.
Stabila levels are expensive. However, I bought two about ten years ago. A 6'6" and a 4'. I have abused the heck out of both. The 4' level has gotten out of whack twice, but it has been replaced for free twice. The 6' er is still great! well worth it.
I have three stabilas that I use regularly, a 2', 4', and a 6 to 10'-6 plate level. I haven't used empires, but Stabilas are definitely the best I have used. The plate level btw was pricey, but makes framing much easier, and I've found countless other uses for it too. It is heavy though.
SMD
Lee Valley Tools is selling a limited number of Johnson levels right now for C$18.50. Unbeatable deal. Act fast.
The first time I took my Johnson level out on the job site I used it to tell a guy his Stabila was wrong. And too expensive.
Ron
>>The first time I took my Johnson level out on the job site I used it to tell a guy his Stabila was wrong. And too expensive.<<
Stabila was wrong... How do ya know? Stabila wrong - Johnson right or vice versa?
Too expensive - maybe.
I have 4 Stabila levels - every now and then I will level the longest one with shims or whatever, then pile the other three on top of it - assuming all 4 match, I turn the pile end for end and see if they all still match. So far they have always matched both ways.
If one day, one level does not match the other three, I take it back and get a new one for free. Can you do that with a Johnson?
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
jtc1
How do I know a level is right or wrong? I hardly know how to answer that without sounding condescending.
Even saying that is a trifle condescending for which I hope you don't take offence.
You want another Stabila? Lee Valley also has a Stabila 10" torpedo level at some phenomenally low price like around C$24.
Ron
>>How do I know a level is right or wrong? I hardly know how to answer that without sounding condescending.<<
Try me, I promise not to be offended.
My simple test, as described in my OP, of blocking to read level in one orientation; then reversing the level and seeing if it still reads level is one check.
Since gravity always works, checking the plumb vials against a plumb bob is reliable.
I suppose you could check against a water level - another gravity reliant system.
My real question was, and still is, "How did you know your new Johnson level was right and the other guy's Stabila was wrong?"
My point is, if you lay two levels (a Johnson and a Stabila) on the same surface and get two different results there are three possibilities a) Stabila is wrong; b) Johnson is wrong, or c) both levels are wrong. So how did you narrow the field to answer "a) Stabila is wrong"?
Edumicate me.
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
jtc1
I checked it in the store much the same way you describe, by setting it on a surface, reading it, then reversing it, then doing the same for the plumb vials.
I also checked it at home in exactly the way you describe before taking it to work. The Johnson and the Stabila are sensitive enough to read the difference you can make by adding a playing card under one end.
So I knew which one was right.
Ron
Ron,
Thanks. Just checking to see if you knew some trick / test that I did not know.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I checked 5 of those $19 yellow box beam 48" Johnsons in Lee Valley and none of them were a off by a hair, I cut mine down to 3'.
I always wanted a decent 3 footer.
The 1' vertical that got cut off, I could part with if you're interested.
Also grabbed the $9.95 intersecting self leveling laser, I'm sure I'll need it for something.
In store only I believe."Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
I scored the Stabila deal on Amazon, 4' and 18" for $33 or so. Love them.
So did I, although I think it was $38 - still a great deal.I really like them, although itg seems like they would be more likely to be misread cause there's such a large space in between the lines that the bubble isn't large enough to be centered and still fill the gap. Sounds like bullpucky that you could discern a sub-32nd inch off of level with one, besides, who would ever need to?I just recently picked up an Empire 6 footer. Mainly wanted it it for use as a straight edge reference for aligning my Festool rails and drawing cut lines on sheetgoods and layout lines on floors.As much as I wanted to, I could not bring myself to spend $130 or so when I could get the empire for $44.I didn't buy the "Pro" empire cause it doesn't have it's long edges square, so you can't use it for drawing lines. I bought the lighter weight "best" version - still has a lifetime warranty.JT
It was $38, I grabbed those too.
I like my Smart Levels. I have two - a 48" and a 24". The module on the 24" can be removed so it can be used as a torpedo level. Maybe I am a digital kind of guy, but it is nice to see 0.0 pop up when things are on the level rather than having to squint at the bubble and guess if it really is exactly between marks. It is also handy for getting the exact pitch of a roof or measuring the slope of a ramp. I have a couple of Empire levels, but reach for the Smart Level when I want things really accurate.
I went back and checked, mine was 36.16. It was bouncing around on the price.
Yeah, they change prices by the minute sometimes. I bought two sets, one as a gift and one for me. I think one was $38.08 or something and the other $36.16 I still don't know why they were that low but you can't pass that up.
I'm still using the 4' and 2' Empire levels I bought in 1981. As accurate as ever.
I replaced the vials in the early 90's because the liquid inside turned clear and that made it harder to read.
About 5 years ago needed to do it again but no one had these old model vials in stock.
Called Empire on a Friday afternoon and asked if they could help me locate some.
They say "no problem, we have them, how many you want?" I need 7 vials and could use 2 new windows.
They refused to let me pay for them, and Wednesday after work they were in my mailbox when I got home.
Customer service 20 plus years after the sale and a quality product.
That's as much as I hope for in a company...buic
Have you checked out the Austrian made red Sola levels? They are my new favorite levels, super easy to read, and are really cool cause none of your colleagues will have one. They are a little hard to find, but but really nice. From their website:
http://www.sola.us/1824_EN.0
1 - Easy to clean powder coated profile
2 - Fibreglass-reinforced tension bar presses vial-block in profile
to compensate shock and temperature
3 - 2-component thermoplastic-block to hold vial
4 - Vial ultrasonically fixed in housing
5 - Plastic cover to avoid dust or cement ingress
Unfortunately, I needed a 36 inch level recently and the only one my tool guy had in stock was a Starrett I-beam vial level. I guess 36" isn't that popular, I really miss the top mounted block vial.
dropprd a4' stabila off a scissor lift hit concrete floor 12' below bounced and fell down into the basement another 15'. when we checked it for plumb it was perfect. i tend to stick with stabila.