*
I think another problem is that a lot of people don’t know
quality from crap when they see it. They are so consumed by
space, “extras” and foofy details that they are lost in a
daze and don’t realize the house they’re buying is flimsy,
overrated and probably overpriced as well. It may show up
in finish detail or more commonly in every hidden area of
framing and in construction elements that are low quality or
missing, though they won’t know until it’s too late.
Of course, the things mentioned in the other posts are out
there as well.
MD
****
Replies
* look under "Silicon Valley" "Cover: Broken Homebuyers Valley residents complain that their brand-new homes are crooked and falling apart." When I first moved to California 15 years ago I was impressed with the quality of construction that I saw here compared to what I saw in North Carolina. Where I was from in NC, permits were rarely required and licenses for most contractors did not exist. I am a contractor here in Silicon Valley and have heard rumors of such workmanship but hoped that it was not as wide spread as this article suggests. I thought the process the state put me through to get my license here in California was to prevent such problems. I have gone behind other builders before and fixed there mistakes but usually they were not licensed and typically got the job because of family ties. What concerns me most is that our young are not learning the correct way to build. For some their only experience is with large corporate builders whose only concern is speed and corporate profits we end up with very few skilled carpenters and many unhappy clients. Does anyone else share my concern?
I just read an article in my local newspaper that made me wonder what has happened to all the good builders in this valley. The article is on the web at
*David - I used to come down to the Bay area 3 or 4 times a year. Every time I'd look at the Business section of the newspaper, all they were talkin' about was "housing boom this" and "housing shortage that". You know better than I, but I guess there are so many "instant millionaires" created by the growth of the software industry there, that the demand for upscale housing has created an unprecedented seller's market. It seems like a ripe environment for unqualified folks to take advantage of. The good thing is, there will also always be folks that ARE qualified, and give a damn about their profession. Those carpet baggers you are competing with won't be around for long and they only make you look that much better by comparrison. Hang in there. Good work stands the test of time.
*I think that it's like that all over; however, some areas of the country are probably worse than others. I'm from the Abilene Tx area and if someone builds outside of the city limits there are no inspections, no governing codes or guidelines that a builder must follow. I did some trim work for a GC that didn't give a rats ass about anyone except himself. This guy would tell a customer that he would build their house for cost plus and then would add extra on to whatever sub contracted work was done in addition to his cost plus. When I would take the extra time to insure a quality trim job I was told that I don't need to worry about details. Just slap everything up and be done. I don't work that way I said, because that makes my work look bad. I was replaced by trimmers that thought they were good because they could get the job done quickly and would cut corners. The above GC ended up having to get a full time non-construction related job as he is now out of business. The best people that I have had the opportunity to work for are the owners that are hiring their own subs. They seem to not mind paying the price for quality craftsmenship. Please don't take me wrong here. There are alot of good builders and GC's out there that do expect quality work from their subs, it's just too bad that the crooked ones spoil it for everyone. MDM.
*Keep your nose to the grindstone. Don't worry about others, don't badmouth them either. And stay away from gc's and builders, and superintendent's that don't care.Just do a decent job for yourself.blue
*I think another problem is that a lot of people don't know quality from crap when they see it. They are so consumed by space, "extras" and foofy details that they are lost in a daze and don't realize the house they're buying is flimsy, overrated and probably overpriced as well. It may show up in finish detail or more commonly in every hidden area of framing and in construction elements that are low quality or missing, though they won't know until it's too late.Of course, the things mentioned in the other posts are out there as well. MD****
*Actually Mad Dog Madlin, builders in Texas have a responsibility to follow the MINIMUM building standards as established by the state of Texas. They recognize the SBBC as the MINIMUM standard, although Texas is the only state in the union to recognize all three code governing bodies.I did an inspection for a friend on a Jim Walters home in a rural county, outside of any city's jurisdiction. They claimed they did not have to get inspections, or follow code. We challenged them, and called in the Attorneys General office. The Attorneys General office told them point blank that they were responsible for building to code (SBBC) regardless if an official inspection was done, or if permits were issued. They said that in Texas, they were required to provide a structure built under minimum standards (again the SBBC). If the structure ever failed, they would be resposnisble as the builder, and they COULD be held criminally negligent as well.It was great. The look on the Regional Manager's face (for Jim Walters) was priceless. She had no idea that she had to do all of this.Jim Walters headquarters issued a canceled contract with my friend, and let her off the hook. That's all she wanted in the first place since Jim Walters had told her that they would build her home "like we always do". She told them if they didn't follow code, she wouldn't let them finish building. They packed up and left, and she is now looking for a repsonsible builder.Just FYI...James DuHamel
*Thanks for the info James. Do you know where I could get a copy of the SBBC standards? MDM.
*Hey Mad Dog,There is a copy of the code book called "Code Check" that can be purchased. A friend of mine bought one, and I think it is absolutely wonderful. I am getting ready to order one for myself. It is publiched by Taunton, and I'm sure that you can find info on purchasing this book from them somewhere on their main page, but you can go here to check out all the info on it, including how to order. CODE CHECKJames DuHamel
*MD:This web site should give what you need for SBCCI info.Here is another one that may be worth bookmarking as a starting point for various model code info.In my opinion, I think it's better to start with the actual code, and use the generic translation type books for extra help. Building codes are updated yearly and a translation may not be current. I know that I went around telling people that CABO required stair rails to be 30" - 34" above the tread nosing - even had one party tear one out because it was at 36". Then found out that the code had an update saying 30" - 38"!! Boy did I feel stupid.
*It's snowing here in NC, not much else to do. Anyway, here is a another link showing a map of what codes apply to what US states.Notice that the title is "Model Code Organizations b Area of Influence." Although all 50 states are shown, I guess enforcement is the real variable.David Oxley:Just as an FYI things have changed a bit since you lived in NC. Anyone contracting residential building projects of $15,000 or greater must have a Residential General Contractors license. To get the license, one must take a 5 hr exam, and renew yearly, which requires a fee and a tedious renewal application that requires a GC prove "financial responsibility" - ya gotta have "money in the bank." Still, some areas are slack, while others are so strict that some builders charge a premium to build in that jurisdiction. For example, the one jurisdiction I am thinking of requires full round head nail gun nails, and will not accept electroplated nails for exterior applications (decks).
*James, Thanks for the info. I will surely check it out. Blue, Very sound advice. Matt G., Thanks for your info also. Frank "Mad Dog" Maglin
*David, Let me give you my little speech. I am a believer of apprenticeship. The only way to keep and get good work is to train good apprentices. Try picking up one if you already do not have one. I do not know how many times I am on a Job and find those as we refere to them in the Northwest "Hackers." I say this in a very loose way. Because I use this term not only on framers but every other trade to.Just thought I would put my two cents in.J Ramey