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When was Breaktime ever not help me pinch my penny time ? What did you think the point was to giving/recieving advice ? Who asks for advice so's they can spend more money ?
*Luka...ya missed my target but you have two more napalm bombs...Fire away!near the stream,aj
*You need to paint those red and white concentric circles a bit more better. Define the center a bit...
*Can't we just do as Nam and Carpet bomb the whole dang area!?nearly ready...upstream,aj
*I wouldn't use a carpet bomb unless you're sure you got fleas. That's a sure way to waste, not pinch.
*AJ's got fleas?
*"pinch my penny time"Is this mean it's time to pinch your pennys? Or is penny an adjective of time and you're pinching it?Rich Beckman
*He must have found some threads where the poster(s) are "penny-wise and pound foolish".
*I once got dehyphenated--tooks weeks to feel right again.
*I know what ya mean, AJ.I have been seeing more and more folks wanting the "high quality" for bargain basement price (kind of an oxy moron). I think what they really want is advice on how to get a great project, with quality, for the lowest cost they can. Most don't seem to realize that great quality requires great cost (as far as materials go). Can you imagine building a beautifully designed bath and using a bargain basement, "scratch and dent" tub just to save a few bucks? Defeats the whole purpose of quality, in my opinion. This has been around since the beginning, and will be around for a long, long time. I personally just try to give the best advice I can, based on my knowledge of products, skills I have, and hindsight from years in this business. Cheap and quality do not go hand in hand.I remember a thread in the heating and cooling topic a year or two ago where a poster really let loose on someone for asking how to go about getting scratch and dent merchandise for his home, and bypassing the contractor to do it. Kinda let me know at the time what some posters here really feel about this topic. Heck, I even let loose a little. Just a thought...James
*I've heard things like this before:I know a guy that can build oak cabinets for $65.00 a foot. Why are you so high?Do you folks mind if I supply the nails? I've got a shoe box full of them in my garage.You don't need two carpenters, my sons out of school for the summer. He can help.My brother-in-law can do that part of the job.Can't we use ¼" sheetrock? It's a lot cheaper. I saw it at the home center.What do you mean you'll have to get that base made. The house is only 60 years old. I just know you can find it somewhere. Keep looking.How much just to hang a simple door?I've got some plywood scrapes under my shed you can use.You don't need new hinges. I've got some old ones in the garage.I'm not sure what I want it to look like but how much will it cost?Etc....etc.......That's why I started to work high-end jobs. The rich folks don't keep plywood under the shed, or nails in a shoe box and thier sons go to europe for the summer. Most of them have never been in a Home Depot. God bless 'em.Ed. Williams
*Ralph, thats me to a tee!blue
*Here's a little different take on it: in Amerika we are used to fixed prices. Instead of bargaining over the cost of a blanket or a group of mangoes, we just accept the idea that we have to pay whatever is asked, or we shop around. When someone starts to bargain with us, we take it as an insult because we associate it with car salespeople, second-hand stores, and third-world countries. We could just choose to look at it as someone shopping and accept or reject the deal, with no heat around it. It's pretty much standard human nature to try to get the best return for the least output...or do you guys always pay the sticker price for your trucks?
*Come on splitergroupie,Comparing contract price to sticker price is a bad analogy, for most of us here. You can't compare either game to any other.When I buy a car, I find a knowledgeable salesperson who treats me with honesty and respect. I treat him the same way. I don't try to supply the stereo and have them install it. I don't try and offer cash for a discount. I go to the dealer armed with what the buyers guides say is a fair price for the vehicle. My truck guy says I can let you have that truck for $xx, then I say ok. I know I'm getting a fair price even though I paid maybe one to two percent more than an all out haggle war price.Thing is, I'll be seeing him again in a few years at best, and I'll be treated honestly again. If I have a problem before then, I know I will be taken care of.This is how our business should work. I get a little closer to that every year.Tom
*Tommy,I don't think my truck analogy is so far-fetched, but maybe here is a better one: I don't build houses for others, but i retail my woodwork to the public, wholesale to the trade, and make custom furniture. For the gift items i sell at art fairs, i ask an extremely reasonable price. Some people nevertheless will try to bargain no matter what. I used to think i was being dissed (OK, sometimes i was), but now i just turn it around and ask them how many they want because there is a minimum for wholesale pricing. Gives them a little lesson in who i am and the worth of what they're looking at while letting me chuckle at their reaction instead of being irked at my own. In your builder's line, if the owners want you to hire the brother-in-law, tell them he has to provide proof of insurance, sign a waiver, pass a drug test, have all his own tools plus a fall harness, and there will be a small fee for the apprenticeship program, but then it would be just ducky. They get a deeper appreciation for the complexity of your business and you spend your time over good beer talking about girls and skiing instead of venting about clients.In the truck analogy, you bothered to educate yourself well to make the transaction go more smoothly, which some homeowners also will do. But i'll bet there is no shortage of people who try to get their radios installed for free either.Just making lemonade, splinter
*Hey, buckaroos. I've got trim carpenters who can do up a room in a couple of hours and others who take days. When its over, the room is trimmed, though the first guy does a damn site better job of it. But, if they both are getting the same per hour, one is going to cost a whole lot more than the other and give a better finished product, though you won't know till it's over.We're not talking about cars. The car is a fixed quantity. You know you are getting the same car at every dealership you go to. Here, we're talking about a lot of different variables, so the cost for doing the same job can vary wildly, as can the end result.I think the customer who doesn't question and negotiate is a damn fool, and you know what happens to a fool and his money. We should all want the best work for the right price, and we want it of others and there's nothing wrong with them wanting it of us.On the other hand, that doesn't mean that customers should turn this place into a friggin flea market and us into their freebie sounding board.SHG
*Oh, oh...here it goes again...the old adage that the contractor is out to screw the owner however which way possible...I wholeheartedly agree that there should be value attached to quality work, but it does not preclude the owner from holding the contractor to quality work. ie. investigate what the going price is for a particular job in your area, get references, see other jobs, etc.,etc. I would not expect anybody to pay blindly assuming you're going to get the best job done...no one here can say that if you pay the higher price you're getting the best work done...that's just complete steam being blown up the asses of owners by contractors.It's too bad we as owners typically go to the lowest bidder as well...this is not always good practice as well (to consider the other side of the coin). So the conclusion is do your friggin homework and don't base it on the bottomline. There it is...TDC
*Dehymenated?Oh, jeez, I can't believe I though of that, sorry, sorry, sorry...did'course, I did still post it!
*Now, that will take a little longer to remedy...;-)
*Who was it said and of whom, that lovely put-down"I knew her before she was a virgin"
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