We had a project done on the house last year. I posted earlier that we didn’t ever have final inspection. We did have finals on plumbing, electrical and preliminary/periodic building.
Reason for the question is I’m presently doing work in the basement and have found at least two instances where I feel the electrical inspector screwed up.
First was two breakers that had multiple wires going to a single breaker. I could be wrong but I thought this went against code. How exactly does an electrical inspector miss this one?
Second I was looking at the rewire necessary for the bathroom in the basement. There is a junction box just loaded with wires, Some of it is old insulted wire running though metal conduit, diameter wise it appears to be 12-2. In the junction box it connects to what is clearly 14-2 wire and goes to a washing machine (this is on a 20 AMP circuit). While I understand this was old wiring the electrician on the job (who was CRAP!) wired into this box and spliced into the ground at least for some of his wiring upstairs. There is also another wire going to a second plug and the lights which is also 14-2 (BX) I would figure tying into this box would make the electrician responsible for this wiring as well yes or no? Should the electrical inspector have caught this?
Just curious. Funny thing is if I wasn’t doing the work in the basement (and I’m not an electrician) none of this would have even been found. This also goes to the whole discussion about DIY vs. Contractors. Simply having a contractor come in by no means guarantees a better/safer job (present company excepted of course). In most cases in fact I’ve seen it means work done in a manner worse than I could have done myself (provided I have the time of course). Most of you guys sound like real Pros. Unfortunately I’ve found guys like you to be the exception rather than the norm in any work I’ve seen. Sorry went off on a tangent there.
Thanks
Tom
Replies
I'm not an electrician either, but the Elec. Inspector here says code allows two curcuits wired into a single breaker (they are designed for this), though I think switching to a tandem breaker, if available for your panel, is preferred (if you are out of spaces).
Inspections are not designed to be a 100% quality control check.
They don't check all connections and would not want to pay them to (either in permit fees or taxes). And even that would not guarntee a perfect job.
They are more like a quick check to se if they person even know what they are going. And depending on the how busy they are and what experience this inspector has had with the person before and what clue that they get on the first things that they inspect will determine how many things that they will get into and how deep. Some are places are so busy that a drive by is all that is done.
Now to your two problems.
In most cases you can only have one wire under a breaker. However, some breakers are listed for 2 wires. The SQ D, QO and maybe the HO series in 15 and 20 amps are listed. Look on the side of the breaker.
It is not a specificaly in the code, but rather the design of the breaker connection.
You can splice it in the panel, if there is enogh room, but some inspectors won't allow it, althought the code does allow it.
And tandam breakers are not always possible. The panel has limitation, see the label, on the number of poles allowed. That will control if any tandems are allowed and if so which slots. However, I suspect that many inspectors don't bother to check it.
You are right on the #14 spliced into the 20 amp circuit. Ideally the electrican should have caught it. But in reality his purpose was getting a ground, if I understand it correctly and he might not have been aware of the size and usage of the other circuit.
While #14 spliced onto #12 is suspeicous it is illegal as such. And it can be done on purpose in some cases such as a long run 15 amp circuit and then when you get to the point of usage drop down to #14, speically if this is fishing wire in old work.
An inspector, even if he looked in that box, would have to do more digging into the old wiring to determine it's application to see if there was a problem.
the only purpose of the county inspector is so they can raise your property tax.
bingo!
Thanks for the input Bill you pretty much got it all on the nose.Yes he was using the old wiring for a ground. The 14-2 however should have been changed. It was about a 3 foot run from the box to the plug (for the washing machine). In an open basement ceiling to an open stud wall. Like I said the electrician was just crap.As for the box I forgot to have a look at the types of breakers so perhaps it was OK. I just saw in one of the electrical references on the FHO pages it listed as one of the ten most common mistakes. As for no room in the box. It was a brand new 200 AMP service with tons of room, the guy was just lazy. See above concerning Electrician being crap.Anyone get the idea I didn't think much of the electrician. I was not the GC on the job and since then I know the GC has gotten a new electrician for his jobs.
You're putting too much on the inspector. Around here the inspector does one inspection after the rough-in and no wires need to be tied in at the panel at that time. The next inspection is after the finish and he does'nt usually open up the panel. Could be different for other jurisdictions though.
As far as the junction box its not up to him to determine where the wires go or come from. His main concern is the box is not over crowded and wires are capped and grounded.
A knowledgeable GC will do a follow through after the trades before they get paid and before things get closed up, assuming you hired a GC. If you did'nt then its your responsibility to get on the electrician
I've spent many years working side by side with all the trades. If I'm waiting on one or another I usually pitch in and ask a lot of questions. I dont claim to know the electrical code book as well as an electrician but I know enough to look out for my clients best interest. Thats what you pay for when you hire a GC.
> There is a junction box just loaded with wires,
How many wires (other than grounds)? What gauges? How big is the box? Any devices in the box? With that info, we can figure the box fill and compare it with code. Especially with a sloppy, re-worked box, it's possible for it to be kosher for box fill and still very crowded in there.
-- J.S.