Has anyone seen the “Flip this House” or “Flip that House” or “Property Ladder” shows on channels like TLC, A&E and Discovery?
Basically,they chronicle the re-do of a house purchased with the intent to “flip it” for profit.
I am often left scratching my head at what they say they do.
Case in point. (And this one was one of the more plauseavle ones) One show has a guy buy a house in Westchester Ca, (near LA) for $542K, 900 sq foot, interior black with mold, windows doors ceilings shot. Holes in the floors of the bathroom and in the walls of the shower/tub too, covered in duct tape. Shag carpet, blown kitchen…just a mess.
Back yard a horror zone.
He plans to spend 6 weeks, and 50K.
He: Guts everything to studs, moves walls, installs all new windows, french doors, new front door, complete new bathrooms and kitchen, new recessed lighting, hardwood floors thruout, new kitchen with semi custom cabs, stainless appliances and granit counter tops, and half way thru the project, decides the rooms are just too small, so adds an addition to enlarge the MBR, add a bath and enlarge the kitchen. Ties teh new gable into the old roof and roofs it. Paints entire house in colors and whte trim inside, paints entire exterior.
Pulls down two med trees and one big one in the front knocks down a masony wall and replaces it with a tall wood fence, stuccos the entire circumfrence cinder block wall around the back yard, adds a raised planter and stuccos it, adds a concrete patio, trees in the front and landscaping, and sods the whole place.
He actually never touches a tool, just directs others.
Budget grew to 80K, finished on time.
And this one actually had a budget that seemd reasonable. Most do similar things for 15K or 30K.
In the end a real estate expert comes in and values the house.
In this case $750k
$!20K profit, of course we don’t know that it actuall SOLD, just that the price was deemed proper.
Seems to me that there’s foundation and plumbing and electrical and roofing and windows and floors and cabinets and on and on, lots of trades that need real expertise, and we never see an inspector. I gotta think if you are doing that kind of work, (on TV!) near LA, you need inspections and permits! And the price seems a tad low.
Am I missing something???
Replies
The last ep of "property ladder" had the inspector come in - the foundation work had failed & there was another issue. I imagine they only bother to show the inspectors if there is a problem that adds to the drama.
I remember one time they actually showed the homeowner doing electrical work - now maybe he was licensed, but they never said anything about it - he got zapped pretty good while doing a routine installation of a light switch. Maybe some jurisdictions allow homeowners to do their own electric on a house that is not their residence, but I can't imagine that the Orange County would be one of them.
The thing that always gets me is the amount of remodelling that they do - all the while making extra mortgage payments as their time line drags on. I can understand if a place needs a major overhaul to begin with, but it seems to me that tons of the stuff they do is taste driven & doesn't really affect the selling price.
The problem that I see with these shows is that I don't see where the "budgets" are realistic. Materials maybe, but not the labor. Especially true in So Cal.
I wonder how many actually pull permits, let alone do to code, or used lic'd contractors
>>>>>>>>>I wonder how many actually pull permits, let alone do to code, or used lic'd contractors I've watched two episodes of one of those shows. In the first, no permits were pulled and the building inspector showed up and told them to quit. They didn't and the sherrif came and shut them down. They finally got the proper permits and were allowed to start up again. It rained for the next 5 or 6 days.In the other episode, the house kept getting materials stolen at night. The two principles sat across the street drinking beer until the thief showed up and then they tried to chase him. Almost as good as "Cops", except everyone kept their shirts on.Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
"Almost as good as "Cops", except everyone kept their shirts on."
Damn, thats funny!!! Good one!
Mike
These shows leave a bad taste in my mouth. Buy a distressed property and do a bunch of bs 'fix ups' and then try to sell it for as much as they can to the next sucker....and the hidden message they are teaching is that all the uninformed yahoo's watching can make it rich exactly the same way!!!!! Bleh!
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
So it would be better to just let the property continue to fall apart?
I have no problem with the concept of flipping, after all, you are providing a service that A) provides a home for somebody & B) improves the neighborhood. Why shouldn't the person receive compensation for that?
Are you opposed to builders who buy a vacant lot, put a house on it & reap a profit?
Soultrain,
Most of the builders here on BT are not "in it for the money." They're actually in it for the love of buildings. Fine buildings.
The "Flipper" shows tend to show and "tell" the aspect of construction that is only "for the money" at the expense of a well constructed home that will last long enough to pass to your grandkids.
The "Flippers" don't GAD about the bones of the house, nor do they care about anything else that improves the intrinsic quality and longevity.
Only about improving the perception of value at the lowest cost and getting the next buyer to sign the dotted line.
SamT
I was stuck inside on Sunday, and they had what seemed to be a "flip this house" marathon on TLC; one of the shows had a guy who, though rather clueless and probably a bit of a baby, did strip the white paint off of the original oak paneling in the bungalow he was "flipping" (what looked to be 5' tall panels, very nice).
He at least tried to do the right thing (though the outside was painted white, for crying out loud, and the wood inside looked better before he finished it).
Their "profit" figure came to 225k.
But that seemed to be the exception, lots of people seemed to be making money by slapping lipstick and a dress on the pig, which says more about the real estate market at the time the show was made than anything else.
In the end, why would anyone ever buy a house that someone else had "renovated" - way too much room for bozo work.
Yea what Sam said.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
If you really dig into those shows, you'll quickly find that the budgets seem "unrealistic" because you're assuming that they're hiring legitimate contractors to do the work. In reality, most flips (both on TV and in real life) are done using unlicensed, uninsured labor paid in cash. I've been involved with several "real estate investment groups" and they all advocate going the "hire a $10/hour handyman and pay him cash" route. Check out http://www.thecreativeinvestor.com - they've got some forums there for rehabs, and it's almost embarassing some of the stupid advice people dole out to newbies.
Also, don't forget that the "profit" figures they present neglect things like closing costs in and out, commissions, and carry costs. I've done some quick math while watching a few episodes of those shows, and in many cases, it seems like the flipper might walk away with $10 for 3 months of work and risk- not worth it at all.
Unfortunately, the shows make the average Joe think that flipping is an easy way to make a fortune. I don't even want to think about how many people have gotten burnt by diving into a flip unarmed.
Bob
"and they all advocate going the "hire a $10/hour handyman and pay him cash" route."
Well, that's what I'm getting at. And around here, I have to pay $25 an hour for a guy who trys to speak english and is scared of a circ saw!
Even totalling up some costs just for materials on some of these shows leaves me scratching my head. New walls, recessed lights new kitchen appliances, a new bath with two sinks and with body sprayers, slate tile everywere, sod and fences and so on and the "cost" comes to 12K!!!!!
Heck, my plumber (middle priced quote) charged me just under 6K for the plumbing of a 2 sink, exposed shower, toilet and whirlpool job alone!
I think these shows are doing a disservice to the industry in that regard.
I too saw the guy do the Craftsmen house. His paint work didn't look too swift on camera, and if it looks bad on camera it must look awful in real life! He stripped it all, (God love him,) but then turned around and painted it again!?!?! Sheesh! Of course, going in he said he didn't have a job, so he did have some time on his hands. I would have liked to see some oak left natural though.
And his "Kitchen remodel" was buying some used or surplus cabinets that were high quality because they were "heavy", and tiling the top. No Dishwasher...he said that was beyond the scope of his ability. And the real estate agent comes in and says, suuuuure you can sell it for $620K! They did take down the chain link fence,,,,but the neighbors still had theirs! What 1200 sq foot house can be worth 600K in a neighborhood like that??
I think there are some huge liberties being taken on these shows. I'd like to see the real math and the real sale prices!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
suuuuure you can sell it for $620K! They did take down the chain link fence,,,,but the neighbors still had theirs! What 1200 sq foot house can be worth 600K in a neighborhood like that??
Ouch, that's $512 the square foot.
I'm wanting to remember that the Bay area median was $380K and the mean was $475K or so; but $512/sf seems a bit insane.
But, I know I'm biased, I bought 1400 sf five years ago for a bit more than $60K, and it'd go $90K even needing $5k in things I should have done by now (silly cobbler's shoes <g>).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yeah, on that bungalow, I thought the woodwork looked better stripped then after whatever finish he did to it - looks to me like he painted it black -
>>"looks to me like he painted it black"
I don't like that style either, but that's actually the craftsman bungalow house style (y'know, Stickley, Greene & Greene type stuff).
What the guy did in terms of authentic restoration wasn't bad for what he had to work with (not to mention his wife constantly hassling him on stuff).
Woodwork from that time period (early 1900's) was dark, so that's why it's dark. From what I'm told, in the olden days they actually mixed lampblack into varnish to darken it.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I don't think it was close to an authenic Stickley stain (I've got a few of his books lying around, too :) - I really think it was paint, and not well done, couldn't see the grain.
But at least he tried. If I remember right his wife wanted to paint it all white, she must have been from Texas.
Edited 3/14/2006 11:17 pm ET by RickD
Did see the show, but I'm getting nearsighted (or maybe my mind drifted at that point in the show -- another bonus of aging). In the finished shots, I though he had stained it.
He should thusly be beaten with an ugly stick and locked up for crimes against nature, architecture, and ruining another bugalow. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
You're right Rick, he killed himself stripping it, then got dark brown paint and painted it.
Stain and urethane..Stain and oil.....Just urethane...just oil...just wax...whatever! But after ALL that awful work, don't paint it again, man!
Even if he had left one room...
I loved the look on his face when he showed the realtor the new Master bedroom off the back, and the guy asked where the master bath was..
Master bath??????? Hmmmm..I knew we forgot something!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
or a 620k house without a dishwasher?
watching these shows is dangerous because you just know you'd do a better job at it - how could I not make money if these bozos are? And that's exactly the reason I wouldn't make any money :)
The "work" done on some of these shows might be like some of the body work done in a week for a 'frame off restoration' on the car rebuilder shows.
Have you ever seen Lance Armstrong's car that was redone on TV? Looks like crap up close.
Joe think that flipping is an easy way to make a fortune. I don't even want to think about how many people have gotten burnt by diving into a flip unarmed.
No lie, or when the cameras all leave, and the CoO inspection comes around and fails the thing for not having passed green tags, or no paper trail, or oops, the set carps they used to get the thing ready for the tv "reveal" really only did work where it "shows" . . .
I'm still amazed at how many of the shows are set in seismic country, yet not one has to jump through the inspections that "the rest of us" would, or the engineering drawings, plan reviews, site reviews, etc. that most AHJ make routine. Not the sort of stuff a $10/hr "handyman" is likely to waltz in and do over a 6-week "shoot" schedule.
But what would I know, I'm not on TV, just have to do all this unglamorous stuff for a living . . . <sigh>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If you bought the book, now you know where all the graduates went.
The book "Get rich Quick in real estate with no $Money$ Down"
The shows don't bother me that much. Actually I kind of like them.
I figure soon enough there will be plenty of houses for sale that have been gutted, flipper runs out of cash while the place is mid reno and a total disaster, and back on the market. Similar for remo work -- HO tries to DIY, it's a disaster -- who they gonna call? (Actually, there is a show just about exactly that -- think it's called "In a Fix" or similar).
I have seen shows where the BI shuts them down, but it seems pretty rare.
One show I especially like is the one with Trademark Properties. They do a reno in like a couple of weeks. Always makes my better half point a finger at me and "why does doing stuff around here take so long" etc. Their typical crew numbers something like 50. I don't know how they don't trip over each other all day long. It's like one set of guys is nailing siding, another set following with trim and just about as soon as one piece of siding is nailed off, a third set of guys are already painting it; all this while the roofers are roofing, tile guys are tiling, sparky's sparking -- you get the idea.
Fascinating.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
One show I especially like is the one with Trademark Properties.
Ginger is hot.Hug it out.
yeah, man. what a set of getaway sticks on her.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
Trademark has ruined the flip market here in Charleston SC. Everyone and their brother is now an "expert".
I was looking at a 1200 sf house priced around 270K, reduced to 210K, that was eaten by termites from the crawl space to the attic. I had basically convinced the agent that it was worth the price of the lot. Maybe 130K.
Someone pulled the proverbial rug out from under me and paid 205 for the house. The house next door, which is identical, was bought last summer for around 260 and is in pretty good shape. It will be wishfull thinking if the rug pullers can get 270 when they try to sell it.
The rug pullers major problem is that it will cost 90K to gut and rebuild. I spent a week running the numbers. They will probably do a band aid job on it and cover up the termite damage. It is sad because they will sell it and it will be someone else's problem.
>>"ruined the flip market here in Charleston SC. Everyone and their brother is now an "expert". "
Don't feel bad. Same way here (and likely everywhere right now). Very tough to find a place to rehab that's actually worth doing because of what it's selling for. Wait it out. Won't be long until things return to "normal."
You've likely already done this based on your post but anyway make friends with a good realtor, get on her/his "investor" list of people to call when she gets a listing of a place that needs total rehab (i.e. a place that shows like a dump but has the bones of a fine diamond in the rough), and sooner or later you'll be glad you did.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I've watched "Flip That House" ,too.
But I wonder how they manage to find all those contractors at very short notice. I mean, they call, and there's guys working the next day, sometimes the same day.
If someone called me and said I want you to start tomorrow, I couldn't answer him 'cause I'd be laughing so hard.
But Ginger is easy on the eyes.
One: If you see the guys they hire, you will know why they are available the next day
Two: If I was going to do a flip, I'd be on the phone before the ink was dry on the agreement of sale. Around here there's usually a few weeks before closing (if not I'd insist on it so I could schedule home & termite inspections, look for buried tanks, etc.) so I could have guys lined up before the deal was complete.
The big thing that it seems to me is that the people on the show don't do their homework ahead of time. That's why they run into so many problems - then again, if there were no issues coming up, there'd be no drama for the show.
They find them that quickly because they are the guys hanging around the Home Despot - or that's where the owner originally found them and now they have a "relationship".
Did you see the one where the owner was asked by the realtor if she had consulted the historic commission on her paint colors and responded "they don't care" when she actually hadn't even thought about it - then 8 weeks or so later got yanked in for a hearing, delaying her project by weeks? That was genious -
That lady was an all around dingbat. Her sister was wise to not invest with her. She also left her Joe Schmoe "contractor" who couldn't get anything right (although in his defense she kept changing her mind about what she wanted) on the job & went on a week vacation - without even checking in & was SHOCKED that nothing got done.
Yeah, she was a real prize - I also remember her comment about her fight with the historic commission was "I only know that I'm right."
I am sure she never thought that maybe the value of the neighborhood and her house might have been enhanced by its historic character?
Oh, and her decisions on the pantry and kitchen were just brilliant - "I'm just not feeling it here"
And I think she actuallly sold it for a profit - not just an estimate of value.
"I am sure she never thought that maybe the value of the neighborhood and her house might have been enhanced by its historic character?"
No doubt. After most people would be shopping for homes there because they WANT a historic home, not some technicolor monstrosity.
She did make a profit on that house, but if she had listened to even one word that the advisor was giving, she would have made a killing.
"Always makes my better half point a finger at me and "why does doing stuff around here take so long" etc. Their typical crew numbers something like 50. "
That's what I really hate about those shows.
Well, remember that television is all about drama. It's smoke and mirrors and Hollywood. Certainly no one thinks that all of the people on The Apprentice or Survivor are actually the best suited. Undoubtedly the producers pick several people just for comic relief or to be the bad guy. Bottom line, just remember that at the end of the day, it is Television - even on TLC.
Now, that having been said, there's nothing inherently wrong w/ flipping a house for profit. I certainly like the concept as I've seen it work time and time again. BUT... it has to be done smart! I can't speak for California but around these parts, your best bet is to find a house in the $50-60K range, put in $8-10K in repairs like carpet/paint, etc. and and sell it for a $20K+ profit. I have several friends making a lot of money doing just that so why bother w/ all the high end stuff? In other words, why spend $500K on a house to make $20K profit when you can make the same money on a much smaller house? And just like anything else, there are people who will teach you the "fast and reckless" way and then there are those that advocate the "safe and sensible" way. Again, it's all about being smart!
As for as the quality of the work in these rehabs... Just take a look at what passes for "quality" in just about any new subdivision today. Now that's crazy!
"I can't speak for California but around these parts, your best bet is to find a house in the $50-60K range, put in $8-10K in repairs like carpet/paint, etc. and and sell it for a $20K+ profit."
In the burbs 30 miles east of San Francisco: GC had a big job cancel; buys the house behind my folks for $950K. 1955 rancher - well built but a rental for 25 yrs or so. Removes all "landscaping", adds ~900 sq ft, guts & replaces all sheet rock, nice mouldings everywhere, new roof, IPE decks in back, new curved paver drive, heated tile baths, custom kitchen, on & on. 3,000 sq ft, 4 BR, 3 1/2 BA asking $1.54 mil. (He DID do a very nice job!)
Man, I sure don't have the stones for that kind of flip! I figure with 6 months of his life and all the high-end materials he'll be lucky to make $1.95. In the end his accountant told him to live there for 2 yrs.
>>"In the end his accountant told him to live there for 2 yrs."
A buy like that does take a set of stones.
FYI if he lives there for two years he gets a cap gains tax free pass (live in a place 2 of the immediately preceding 5 yrs.). $250k if you're single, $500k if you're married. Cap gains rate is 15% so if he does make around a half-mil on the place and he's married, he saves $75k in taxes.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
Actually it is much, much betteer than that.If it sold it now it would be ordinary business income and he would ordinary income taxes and SS or self employement taxes.
>>"Actually it is much, much betteer than that."
>>"If it sold it now it would be ordinary business income and he would ordinary income taxes and SS or self employement taxes."
Good point. Very good point.
Whether he lives there or not if he owns it for less than, (18 months or it dropped to 12?), gets taxed as ordinary income instead of cap gain. The guy must have a good accountant. Knew those accountants were good for something. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
An important thing to weigh on this is whether or not the 2 years of interest on the mortgage will be more or less than the tax he would pay on the capital gains (whether long or short term). $4 grand a month works out to $96 over two years - almost all of which is interest.
In the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, $50-60K will buy you the garage!
I actually enjoy watching these shows although the numbers seem very unreal to me. We've actually looked at many homes in our area to do just this thing but haven't found any with a good price to do it.
We did look at one house with several broken trusses, rotten walls, broken AC system and bathrroms that looked like chemistry experiments gone bad. All this for just $390k. I figured we could buy it, put $250k in it and in the neighborhood it would be overpriced by about $350k. We'd loose our butts and someone would get a really good deal....
Yeah, thats good business!
So needless to say, we haven't flipped any homes and are still looking. It might work in some areas but not in Central Florida...
Mike
I just wish someone would come into my neighborhood and do some of these flips. Around here, they buy the house, but don't bother doing ANY work. Just sits there boarded up, until the homeless break in. One person owns an entire block, all boarded up.
Wonder what TV producer I need to contact?
And this was once the premier neighborhood in the city.
"Around here, they buy the house, but don't bother doing ANY work. Just sits there boarded up, until the homeless break in. One person owns an entire block, all boarded up."There's a few places around here like that. Not much the law will do about it either, unless there's a history of illegal activity occurring on the property.I'm working on a project right now where our client bought some properties from somebody like you mentioned. The previous owner actually spent time in jail because one of his abandoned buildings kept getting broken into and used for drugs and prostitution.
Edited 3/15/2006 9:42 am ET by draftguy
I read in the Dispatch that the mayor is proposing $25 million to do code enforce on the 1,000 worst homes, or something like that.That comes out to $250,000 per house.For that amount of money, the city should be able to buy the houses, renovate them themselves, and then sell them on the open market.What am I missing in this picture?BTW, I also read that Children's Hospital is taking over the space from the Kroger across Parsons Ave. Is that the side for the monument, or does that go along Livingston?What I wish is that Whole Foods would move in there...
Have you guys noticed on one of the shows Trademark was actually in the home and renovating before they had actually closed on the vacant home?I think that guy on Trademark could write the book on flipping techniques that "cross the line" in relation to Standards of Practice.^^^^^^
Have you guys noticed on one of the shows Trademark was actually in the home and renovating before they had actually closed on the vacant home?
There's nothing wrong with working on a house before closing on it. Most standard purchase agreements would have to be amended to allow for this. There would be issues of liability that would have to be sorted out.
blue
There's nothing wrong with working on a house before closing on it.
Sure, but you wanna make REAL sure the deal's gonna close before you start work. Elsewise, Mr. Buyer can wind up in a bit of a pickle.
Me, I get real skittish about stuff like that, although I have allowed such on my listings before (guy last year wanted a new driveway before closing - house was vacant, seller said okay).
Jason
>>"There's nothing wrong with working on a house before closing on it."
Agreed 100%
I've done it where the bank's appraiser won't go for the loan without certain repairs (basic stuff like the toilets don't flush; roof leaks, etc.).
Most of the places I buy are total gut jobs (original owners pass on after long and hopefully happy lives, but haven't maintained the place for decades). A lot of times the heirs are far away and won't lift a finger to get a place even marginally habitable for sale.
If the deal doesn't go through, haven't lost much really. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
One time the seller's agent even paid to have the gas turned on to prove to the appraiser the furnace worked (gas co. wouldn't let me sign up the account 'cause I didn't actually own the place yet). It's amazing how little some sellers will do -- but that leads to bargains in them thar hills! ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I bought a fixer upper which was vacant and asked the seller if I could work on the home prior to closing.They refused. How do you guys get them to approve?
^^^^^^
Ask for the keys. If the seller says "no" then it's "no."
If the deal is contingent on making repairs and the sellers have no interest in lifting a finger, it's a lot easier to get them to say "yes." If not, it's actually unwise for a seller to let you in pre-close (from seller's point of view, what if you move in, refuse to close, and refuse to leave -- you're not a criminal trespasser; they gave you the keys -- now they got to sue you to get you out, etc., etc.).
On the other hand, if the place is a total dump, seller could benefit from letting you in. Keeps you as buyer happy and if for some reason the deal doesn't go through, they get some free demo and disposal, free repairs to satisfy the bank. That's pretty much how it works for me.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I bought a fixer upper which was vacant and asked the seller if I could work on the home prior to closing. They refused. How do you guys get them to approve?
Everything in a real estate transaction is negotiable. Your particular sellers had some concern and you didn't overcome their objections. You obviously found a way to do the deal without that particular clause. Perhaps if that clause was important enough, you'd have found a way to negotiate it in.
blue
The following article on the owner of Trademark Properties was in the local fishwrapper this morning. Sorry about the ads at the end, but maybe your'e in the market for a Mercedes or want a job driving a truck.
'Flip This House' real estate star sets sights high
Richard C. Davis
BY JIM PARKER
The Post and Courier
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Oyster roast, silent auction to benefit Pet Helpers shelter
'Flip This House' real estate star sets sights high
McConaughey taking life in stride
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Maybe it was advice a young Richard C. Davis retained from his mother, who raised three boys on her own: "Grab your own bootstraps!" Or the experience as an undersized basketball player who excelled at Fort Johnson High. Or bouncing back from his freshman partying days at Clemson to earn a business degree in 1981.
Whatever the subliminal reasons, Davis, founder and owner of Trademark Properties real estate company in Charleston, always thinks big.
Not just a little big, either. Take the sign raised years ago in front of woodlands on Folly Road touting Trademark's planned new office. It doesn't say something understated such as "new building" or "coming soon," but blares, "Future World Headquarters."
Same with Davis' volunteering. A day or so here and there would be acceptable. But he has helped out daily as an assistant high school basketball and youth baseball coach while running a 38-employee business with operations from the Lowcountry to Greenville.
If that weren't enough, Davis is deep into his most ambitious, and pie-in-the-sky, effort yet. He had a brainstorm in 2004 for a reality TV show "Worst to First" that would follow his Team Trademark crew as it buys properties at bargain-basement prices, fixes them up and sells them at a profit. "It was 3 a.m. I sat up straight in bed," he said. "Will this guy, from a small town in South Carolina, fail or succeed? I want to do this challenge."
The episode made the cable TV rounds before landing at Arts & Entertainment. The hourlong program, its name changed to "Flip This House," launched Sundays in the fall. It proved to be successful enough to move in 2006 to prime time, Mondays at 8 p.m. A&E's schedule lists it between "Dog the Bounty Hunter" and "Inked."
Boasting episodes of jaw-to-jaw arguments, coarse language, good ol' boy (and girl) shindigs, Lowcountry scenes and lots of deadline construction pressure, "Flip This House" attracts an average of 1.3 million viewers a week. "In this show, South Carolina and Charleston come across impeccable," he said.
Loyal viewers on Internet chat boards hash out the latest travails of Davis, project director Dawn Nosal, acquisitions specialist Ginger Alexander, broker Vance Sudano, construction manager Kevin Maloney, real estate chief Lori Nolan and even his brother, John Davis, who heads up the business' commercial side.
"I'm proud of him," said another brother, Chris Davis, who's employed in the film business in Hollywood doing videos and voiceovers.
A contrast to Richard Davis' button-down pink shirt and khaki pants, the tattooed Chris Davis wore a black pirate T-shirt with the saying, "Kill 'Em All, Let God Sort It Out Later."
"I showed him how to do it, how to work in TV," Chris Davis said after dropping in one day at the Trademark Properties office. "There's a formula. Richard ran with it."
"We spent $9 million promoting the show," Richard Davis said. "We are kind of hitting our stride now."
Still, Davis said he gets frustrated, includ-ing with the New York-based film and production crew. "They script the story line," he said with a frown. "I said, 'Just run the camera!' "
"Flip This House" finished filming its first year, and Davis expects the show to continue. But he's mum about whether it will return to A&E or land on another network.
A longtime friend said he's not surprised Davis has earned a measure of success, considering his drive and long-range vision.
"Richard has always had a plan," said John Keener, owner of the Charleston Crab House. He became acquainted with Davis at Clemson in the mid-1980s.
He recalls Davis telling him in the early 1990s, "You wait and see what Trademark Properties is going to look like 15 to 20 years from now."
In January, Keener tapped his friend to remodel his restaurant on Wappoo Creek. Davis incorporated the renovation into a special "Flip This House" episode. "The remodeling was unbelievable," Keener said. "Something that would have taken a normal contractor two to 2 1/2 weeks, he did in 3 1/2 days. Richard does not take no for an answer."
Keener likened Davis' work ethic to the twangy, trendy catchphrase of comedian Larry the Cable Guy: "Git-r-done!"
"He was doing that for years."
Lifelong career
While appearing on a national TV series wasn't part of Davis' early plans, pursuing a career buying and selling houses always was there.
"This is all I've ever done," said Davis, who got involved in real estate more than 25 years ago. "I remember reading about the Top 10 companies to work for."
Some he rejected right away. "I don't want to be a chemist," he said.
But he liked studying people and found that was a useful tool in real estate, another of the top company trades.
First things first, though. His freshman year in college, he joined a fraternity. Davis' social life took off, but schoolwork tanked, his grade point cascading to a 0.4 average. Fortunately for him, it was a one-year aberration. "I got it out of my system," he said.
In his sophomore year, he took real estate appraisal classes. Focusing on management with an emphasis in real estate, from then on he posted a 3.7 GPA.
Davis worked on the side, amassing 40 hours a week at a sporting goods store in Seneca to save up money. He also spent a couple of summers in a county assessor's office, quickly grasping how to value properties.
Hiking his feet on a chair in his roomy office, Davis said he realized something. He was a talkative, sociable guy who had clerked in retail, so he knew how to sell. And he had industry knowledge from pricing properties.
After graduation, Davis was able to finagle an assessor's position paying $16,161 a year. He figured he had a job for life, earning a modest 4 percent raise every year. But if he bought properties and sold them at a profit, he could make more than his salary.
"I was at a crossroads, I had to make a decision," he said.
A James Island associate, George Cook, said, "Man, have you ever thought about the construction side?"
At the time, Cook owned 47 homes in desperate need of repair. They had been hammered by Hurricane Hugo, which hit the coast in September 1989.
"They gave me an offer," Davis recalled. "They wanted me to be foreman. I did construction for 15 months."
Davis said he learned something from the experience - for builders, "speed equals money" - but decided it wasn't for him. He wanted to form his own business. "All these people say, 'You are really not in the game until you are 40.' "
At the time, that gave him 10 to 12 years if he was lucky.
He decided to keep it simple - buy homes and sell them. "People don't understand. I'm not a developer," he said. "I like existing properties."
He noticed that professionals were relocating and needed places to live. "Everyone I went to school with moved to Greenville, Columbia, Charleston."
Davis launched his company in 1990. He settled on the Trademark name, touting that the business model was so unusual it could be trademarked.
He then added a logo, a drawing of the state of South Carolina. Trademark Properties opened downtown in the Aimar Building on King Street, then moved its office to a suburban shopping plaza on Folly Road.
"This office is a prototype," he said. "I want everybody under one roof."
The centralized headquarters and operations were part of a five-year plan Davis launched in 2000. Trademark's online Web site at http://www.trademark-properties.com details its organizational chart in the shape of a pie with each slice a division: brokerage, property management, commercial. "We hire based on need, not on greed," Davis said. "We don't have middle management. If you are a working manager, it's easier to be compassionate."
Close to his roots
It's no coincidence that Trademark Properties is based on James Island. Davis grew up in the Quail Run subdivision, which is less than three miles away off Fort Johnson Road. His mother, Carol Davis, who still lives in Quail Run, comes by the real estate office from time to time.
Davis spent his youth hanging around the James Island Recreation Center and continues to volunteer there. He's always kept close ties to the community.
"You see all the players' pictures and trophies of the kids," he said.
The lobby walls of the Trademark office are lined with sponsored youth teams or ones he or other agency employees coached.
While he's close to his mother and siblings, Davis had a more traumatic experience with his father, Thomas C. Davis, a Vietnam veteran who struggled on his return to civilian life and lived in Washington, D.C. He died in 1995 and was buried with honors at Arlington National Cemetery.
Because of the absence of his father, Davis' male role models were his coaches, including basketball coach Paul Hughes at then-Fort Johnson High School. That's why Davis tries to spend as much time as possible with his three boys, Logan 14; Lyles, 8; and Lawton, 4. He has been an assistant basketball coach at James Island High and coached a winning Dixie Youth League baseball team.
Davis' wife, Kim, a physician at the Medical University of South Carolina, doesn't worry about her husband's celebrity. Kim, too, is from James Island and went to Clemson, She is younger than Richard.
"She's always behind the scenes. We have two very, very independent careers," he said. "She's a great physician (and) good mother. But I do my thing."
Davis said he learned a lot about life from his mother, who taught at a Montessori school. "She did what she had to to raise us."
"I'm never too busy to give back to the community," Davis said. "I'm not a politician, or politically correct, but you should give back. There are people who make a difference in my life who don't know it."
A busy schedule has its downside, too. Catching up with Davis can be aggravating. As is visible on "Flip This House," Davis spends a lot of time in his car and on job sites checking out progress. He primarily relies on a Blackberry to receive and send e-mail messages.
Still, the hectic pace fits with Davis' lifestyle. "To me, sports is life," he said. You can't be successful "if you don't learn to cope, get out in the real world."
He said Team Trademark and the squads he's coached have paid dividends emotionally.
"If I have a bad day," he said, "they pick me up."
Richard C. Davis
AGE: 43.
RAISED: James Island.
EDUCATION: Fort Johnson High School, Clemson University with bachelor's degree in business.
FAMILY: Wife, Kim; sons, Logan, 14; Lyles, 8; Lawton, 4.
POSITION: Founder and owner, Trademark Properties real estate company specializing in residential, commercial, investments, relocation and property management.
COMPANY PHILOSOPHY: "We treat every real estate transaction as an investment whether it is a personal residence, vacation home, apartment building, shopping center, office building or hotel - it is still a major purchase and should be treated as such."
RECENT PROJECTS (most are condominium conversions): Montclair at Towne Centre, Cambridge Lakes, Southampton Pointe and Madison at Park West in Mount Pleasant, The Retreat on James Island, Carolina Cove west of the Ashley and Riverway at Aichele Terrace in North Charleston.
NOTABLE ACHIEVEMENT: Helped launch and stars in "Flip This House" reality show on A&E TV network.
CIVIC INVOLVEMENT: Active in youth sports programs on James Island, including baseball and basketball.
ON TRADEMARK'S SUCCESS: "Once it took off, it put the state on the map."
FAVORITE LINE: "Whatever" (usually phrased sarcastically when Davis hears something he doesn't want to hear).
WHY HE DEVELOPED "FLIP THIS HOUSE": "You see all these shows, "Trading Places," "Monster Garage," that's not adding value. To me, your weekend project is not the same as real estate."
Reach Jim Parker at 937-5542 or [email protected].
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Thanks for the article HH. I love reading about entrepreneurial success stories.
I give the guy a lot of credit. I wouldn't do what he does, but I respect his success.
blue
You must use the same math the buyers on the flipping shows use . . . I think that's $25,000/house, not $250,000. <g>
It's a great idea (about the run-down houses), but I'll believe it when I see it. It'll take more than a photo op with a backhoe to make much of an impression. And I'm not sure of how he's planning on using the money. He seems to have a lot of irons in the fire . . . Cooper Stadium, Morse Road, Parsons Avenue, the schools, etc.. It'll be interesting to see how many of these become reality.
The Children's Hospital parking garage is just south of the KFC on Parson's (where the memorial will be located, I'll try to put some images on the original thread soon). Not sure what's going on with the space across from the Krogers. Just south of the Krogers is where our client's project is located, across from the newer fire station. There's a lot of buzz going on about Parson's Avenue right now. There's discussion about what to do with the vacated Schottenstein's site, and people are looking at Parson's Avenue as being the next Gateway project (similar to High Street at OSU). One option was to try and get IKEA there. It's close to the highways, good proximity to wealthy areas, lots of density, German Village gentrification is moving south . . . unfortunately, the immediate neighborhoods are pretty neglected. The whole thing could easily become a developer's pipe dream.
Heard that Whole Foods was going in near that new Kroger's site in the Brewery District. Then one of our interns said it was going into one of the Gateway spaces. They're going somewhere anyway . . . you'll just have to live with Wild Oats in UA 'til then. :)
Edited 3/15/2006 12:07 pm ET by draftguy
Your correct - whew! 25,000 per house is still a lot though.We hike up to the Whole Foods (or "Whole Paycheck" as some call it) up at Sawmill and 161.Parsons has a significant presence in the plan for fixing the I-70/71 overlap. I think there are already traffic problems on Parsons. It is one of the major north-south routes from downtown to the south side. I really wonder what will happen if they incorporate it into an access road to the freeway.What we need are the stores of everyday life - Whole Foods, a hardware store, pet store, drug store, and restaurants. Not Ikea. I don't understand why that is so hard for the planners to understand. We live and/or work here EVERY day. We don't shop for furniture everyday. Or need a department store everyday. The powers that be don't seem to get it. Not at City Center, or over here.Well enough ranting. I'll look forward to your memorial.
T/V and mexicans
" Adam Carolla show" glue lam ridge spliced w/(2) pieces of 3/4 plywood!!!!!!!!!!!!
I LOVED the Adam Corolla show! I have to say, that show was more realistic of what really happens, LOL. OK, well the "truth" is in the middle someplace.
I was shocked that the lamy ridge flew with the inspectors...and there were plenty of inspection issues.
Either way, the show illustrated the things that need to be dealt with that are glossed over on standard "building" TV shows, and it was, at times just too funny.
I miss it.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
I liked the show too but that ridge never would have flown with me running the crew.
Pete
LOL! Me either! Heck I write what things are with a Sharpy just so I don't get confused, let alone anyone else. Esp when it comes to expensive only fit in one spot things like lamy beams...
The only thing to do i that case was to get another beam.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
That beam couldn't have been more than 30 feet long.
My math says maybe $225.00 at the high end.
They had an episode of Property Ladder the other day where the girl doing the flip actually fired her contracter because he insisted on getting a permit for the walk in closet which she added on to her bedroom - a job that involved moving an exterior wall back ~4 ft.
She found a guy that agreed to do it w/o a permit. She also had the guy replace a breaker for her because it kept tripping. She was shocked that it kept tripping after it was replaced. Then a gas leak was discovered right before her open house. When the plumber came he also noticed that the plumbing from the kitchen sink leaked - he poked it & the pipe just caved in.
Needless to say, she incurred a loss on this project.
Now that the episode aired, I wonder if the municipality would come after her for not permitting her addition...
Like most "reality" TV shows, there is very little in these programs that is truly real.
I saw part of one last night where Ginger was talking about a house that was built in 1740...the guy said, "1740, weren't even a country back then", and she replied, "We weren't???"
Uh huh, you're right up there on the awareness scale, you are.