On fine homebuildings home page is the aluminum facia being installed with a 22oz. FRAMING HAMMER ?It also appears to be a new one at that and oddly enough the brand name is clearly visable. Just an observation ………….I personally would throw a fit if one of my helpers was caught using a framing hammer to install a finish product.
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Replies
I use a 28 oz Estwing for everything, framing, siding, roofing, trim, popping the caps off tubes of silicone, digging holes for ladder feet, swatting wasps. Don't see what the big deal is. It feels right in my hand and that's everything.
i'd be mad, too if he can afford a new hammer, i'm paying him too much
"I'm not responsible for my actions."
I'm not sure aluminum fascia qualifies as "finish product" .
Just kidding....don't have a cow!
I'm sure I've ran a thousand feet of it with a 20 oz rocket in my earlier years. In my later years (wisdom), I've switched to a lighter version , but it's still basically a framing tool. I'm sure in my earlier years, I would have damaged a lot of the trim if I'd try to switch to a smaller trim hammer. It's all about control and comfort and in those days if I switched to a shorter handle, I'd have banged my fingers more than the nails.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
Hey! Jim,Good to see ya back.I was thinking 'bout ya the other day.....Good thoughts.SamT
Thanks Sam. I've been busy...traveling across the country and resetting up in Austin. I see you guys are still going strong and I'm glad for that. I see a lot of new names that is always good. I hope things have been well for you. I still appreciate all the help you've given me on the marketing and thought process regarding marketing efforts.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
B E D ? That you?
I've been thinking of putting out an all points bulletin for you.
How's the school project going?
Now if we can just find Tim Mooney................[email protected]
I was reading the RFH thread and the Mooney wall installation and wondered about its namsake. Is Mooney AWOL?
Someone else here probably knows better than I, but I haven't seen him around in a while.[email protected]
Hi Eric. Thanks for your interest.
It is me. I kinda posted a few explanations in the recent thread titled Chief Talk but I'm okay with repeating.
I had to abandon the school project becuase I couldn't and still cant get any of my Michigan connections to fund it. The market in MI is so depressed that no one is interested in speccing anything. When I made the decision to abandon the project, I also made the decision to sell the property that I had on the lake. After steeply discounting, I actually found a buyer for the lake property.
Anyways, I got real busy making the move to Austin, TX and have been busy setting up the current business here. I'm finally semi settled in and will be needing a bit of online help from this site to get me up to speed with building in Texas issues.
Hows business and life going with you? I'm guessing things are at least okay but I hope things are much better than that. Any interesting projects lately?
Tim is one of the guys that I was looking forward to conversing with. I hope he shows back up. I'm sorry he's MIA but perhaps he's just too busy at the moment. One of the biggest reasons I stopped coming in for a while was because I just couldn't figure a way to limit my reading and posting without going cold turkey and I got real crunched for time doing the numbers analysis on the school. After it crashed, I was just too busy moving, in between an awful bout with sciatia.
I'm here now, but I'm really concerned about my time management. I'm going to have to set a limit on how many threads I open LOL!
jim
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Hey Blue, welcome home. We did miss ya, no matter what Smith says.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
The freakin Mikey been talking trash bout me? I'm gonna have to take him out behind the tavern....
I gotta get into the tavern but I don't remember how. Getting old takes it's toll..
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Tavern? 88325.265
So you sticking with the Lions or you going to be running like a bowlegged Cowboy?
I've got a hellofa dilemma don't I Rez? You gotta know I worship the Lions....they are 3-1 and Superbowl bound. But...dem Cowboys have my attention too.
Im gonna wait to make my picks until a little later in the season.
By the way, I found my way to the TAvern request site just before I saw this post. Thanks for the tip though.
fka (formerly known as) blue
hows come ya changed yer handle?
couldn't handle it?
How come I changed my handle? Mainly because I was jealous of the guys that simply used their names.
In my earliest years on the internet, I was extremely paranoid and Ive gotten over that inclination. Now, I see the internet as just another public venue that I'm in and since I don't hide in a cave around here, I might as well not try to hide out in cyberville.
One last and big reason: I intend to do some picture threads that will showcase some upcoming gigs and want to use the material in some marketing efforts. I just didn't want to send potential clients into a thread and have to explain where I got my handle...which I can't explain anyways. I'll be dropping the signature line in a week or so.
Thanks for unlocking the Tav.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
One last and big reason: I intend to do some picture threads that will showcase some upcoming gigs and want to use the material in some marketing efforts.
Have you checked into Flickr.com? I use a link to Flickr on my website, to show picture documentaries of jobs. Go to this page, and click some of the job links in the upper right of the page.
Or go to this page, and click the "slideshow" link (keep your mouse over the white arrow on the right, because clicking is better than waiting for each new slide).
See what you think. I think its a great tool for photo-presentations, with a place for commentary with each picture, and the option of slide-show presentation if desired. The cost is negligible.
I used this on a small job for a client that couldn't be there when the work progressed, but wanted to monitor progress. They could click the Flickr.com link I gave them, and watch the progress day-by-day. They loved it. Here's a (tongue-in-cheek) email the Mrs. sent me: Wow! Very impressive! I really enjoyed the slide show! Better than any Tom Cruise movie!
An added benefit is that the pictures are automatically resized when you upload them to flickr. So if you do want to post a picture thread on BreakTime, its simple to right-click copy from Flickr, and then right-click paste on BreakTime - the picture is automatically embedded in your post, that simple.
Like this
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View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Thanks Huck for the hijack and the information regarding flikr. I'll pass this info on to our internet web expert. She may already be using some form of a website like this or she might like this and use it. It will be up to her. Its out of my hands and because if that, something might get done LOL!
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
Yeah, I just figured it'd be better'n havin' your clients come here - bad company being the ruin of good character, guilt by association, and all that.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I do agree that I wouldn't send clients here Huck. I suppose if they don't get in the tavern it might be okay, but there is also a lot of animosity going on all over this site, in most every folder. I actually remember now that I didn't miss the acrimony at all when I got too busy to read and post. I'm already beginning to tire of it and I've been back less than one week. I have already started to answer half a dozen posts, then cancelled my reply because I felt that I'd have to deal with fallout. I just don't need to argue and justify things that I've successfully done for 30 years. I know that there have been many knowledgeable posters that have come and gone and never returned due to some of these same observations. Its sad that someone would personalize an opinion that is construction related. I do appreciate that Flickr tip though. There are a lot of resources on the web and sometimes the tips are precisely what is needed. I'm going to pass it on to the webmeister.Oh yeah, your site looked pretty good too! I did like that you could post so many pics on the flicker site. I didn't like having to navigate back to your site, but that might be something specific about the way I browse.jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Thanks for the feedback, I'll have to see if I can get the links to open in a separate window, hadn't thought about it before you mentioned it.
Yeah, I tend to avoid the tavern all together. I'm in there now, because they moved a couple of my posts over there, and somehow I got access without requesting it. But I just don't enjoy that part of the site, because I'm here for the construction stuff, not the politics and etc.
Like you, I tend to be selective about what posts I respond to. But I do learn something here every day, and hope you'll stick around, because your business insights have been real valuable to me, and some of your framing insights too. And I'm sure your current situation will produce some grist for the mill.
Best wishes in your new endeavors!
HuckView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
That happened to me too. I dodged the Tavern after they first locked it for several years. Then, suddenly I was thrust into it because someone politicized a thread and it got tossed in there. I'm still traumatized....
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not running anywhere, just blowing little steam. I will dodge anyone that trys to start arguments or gets personal. Life is too short....
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Jim/Blue,
You've helped me out with sound suggestions in the past. Good to have you back.
shearwater/Pete
Then, suddenly I was thrust into it because someone politicized a thread and it got tossed in there.
That doesn't happen anymore. I know because I don't go to the cyber tav, the other kind are still OK.
I've been in a few threads that ended up in the tav but because I don't have tav privileges I don't go with the crowd!
Blue, glad to have you back and I know you don't want to remember it but one of the last post/exchanges that you and I had with each other was way back last year when the St. Louis Cardinals had just made a trip through Chicago(White Sox) and Detroit (Tigers) and got demolished by both clubs, I was making a comment about them ending up in the World Series and you said that if they met up with Detroit the outcome would be similar to their past weekend, just wanted you to know that I was as surprised as you, well except my surprise was a bit more pleasant.
I spent 3 1/2 years down in the Austin area and will always have fond memories of the place, great city, always something going on. You should do well there if you can stand the heat!
Doug
Edited 10/14/2007 9:16 am ET by DougU
I do remember our conversation and congrats to you and St Louis. It was a fun series and everyone in Detroit was thrilled to be there. I think we'll get back soon too. We just had an awful string of bad luck in the injury dept.
I happen to love the heat and love Austin. If it's not at least 90 degrees, I'm not happy. I've had meetings in airconditioning that thoroughly chilled me and I've driven home without the windows down or the air on just re-soakng up the heat....and the digital display in my truck says 115 or something like that! I'm like a freakin Turtle or Lizard.....soaking up the heat.
Thanks for the encouragement. I think we are going to be fine here too...at least for the near future.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
Great to have you back on board Jim.
Sorry to see you leave Michigan, it's 90 in October right now, humid as a sauna.
Good luck in Texas.
Matt
I used to hate those 90 degree days in October, but loved the thought of them by November. I think I spent last year sweating during the duck season opener. I recently saw an article in the Detnew.com site talking about the duck hunters on Lake St Clair in their blinds with skiers skiing by LOL. That has actually happened to me in years past!
Thanks for the encouragement and gl to you too even if you stay in MI LOL.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Welcome back - Glad to see ya around again.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thanks Boss. I was going to be needing some of your expert opinions regarding trusses, so keep your eyes peeled about truss questions.
One of the questions I have is how much more does it cost to add a 2' heel onto a floor truss? Shall I start a separate thread about this idea?
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Every plant I've worked at prices floor trusses differently, so it's hard to give you a reasonable answer. But most of them charge maybe an average of 30% more for a 24" deep floor truss over a 12" deep one. That oughta at least give you a rough idea...
I've been putting in blocking for a week, 28oz estwing waffle face...I've been thinking about you with every swat, ha,ah,ha! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Austin, hey? Hook up with Bamm Bamm and Ladyfire.SamT
I don't know bamm bamm and ladyfire but I dont know how to hook up!
Bring em on.fka (formerly known as) blue
Hello Jim and welcome back!
I see from the posts in this thread that you are not new to BT. I am though. Bambam has been here for a while. He would be the one to get you up to speed on the Texas building codes etc.
We are in Nacogdoches Texas. Quite a good way from you. 5 hours I believe. We are planning on hosting firefest in Februrary 8,9,and 10th. Since you're here in Texas now, maybe you can make it! We'd love to have you.
Anyhow, welcome back to BT and hope Texas does you proud.
Meant to tell you, you don't have to cheer for the COWGIRLS just because you live in Texas! I like New England and Bambam likes GreenBay! Go figure!My brain + his brawn = a perfect team
Thanks for the invite Ladyfire. I'll be there...just keep me updated.
I've already bought my Cowboys hat and I hope they go 5-0 tomorrow. Detroit lost...so the Cowboys have a pretty big lead in my loyalty quest. I guess you can tell Im a fair-weather-friend. I'll jump on anyone's bandwagon if they are a winner!
Looking forward to finding out what a firefest is.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Hey, y'all, meet Jim Allen.SamT
I was going through some stuff the other day and came across your cards.
A while back I took some pics of a scholl conversion I happened on near a job I was working on. I'm glad things worked out for you the way they did, that you didn't get involved and then get burnt.
I've been keeping busy. Was promoted to PM in January and have been working my tail off since. Things are slowing down a bit now so I am sliding back into production a little at a time. Wearing two hats...............
Best wishes with you new adventure. My where I sit it takes a big set to make a move like that.
Regards,
Eric[email protected]
Actually Eric, if I would have secured fundingfor the school project, I would have had a lot of work and had none of the risk. That's the way the deals work. The school conversion is still a good idea and I still believe that it will be done there, but the timing is off for me. I didn't want to wait around for another couple of months working the deal because when I did a visit to Austin I realized that I could much more easily find better deals in markets where everyone is optimistic and buyers are buying!
A guy can only take so much of the negative attitude that Michiganders are giving. Everywhere you turn you hear people grumping about taxes, job loss, foreclosures, orange barrels, blah, blah, blah. Everybody is stressed. It's not a fun place to hang out.
Here in Austin, everyone is cool. Groovy is the buzzword. Jobs are coming in. People are pouring in from California and the rust-belt. Commercial is going strong everywhere. Tract builders are still selling and creating services demand. One half of the downtown Austin area is expensive and appreciating and people are fixing up and remodeling. Yes, the mortgage industry woes are softening the market, but Austin didn't explode during the runup and they held steady at normal rates of appreciation.
Franky, I wish I would have made the move a year earlier and just sold everything for whatever I could get for it. I'd be a couple hundred thousand ahead of the game...ahhhh hindsight!
Congrats on getting that PM job. I was just contacted about one myself the other day (I sent out some resumes when I landed) and I had to turn down the interview because I've already got too much under contract here.
What kind of work are you PMing? Commercial, residential or mulitfamily?
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Hello Blue - welcome back! Thanks for the update, been wondering about the school project, the change in business strategy ,etc. Hope all goes well for you there in Baja Oklahoma! =)
------------
edited to add: I can relate to your comments about 'dropping out' for awhile. I've done it a few times myself, even came back with a new name for awhile. Time management can be a real issue during chaotic times, i.e. moving, business changes, personal crises, etc. Only difference for me is, no one notices when I'm gone! lol =)
------------
edited (again!) to add: You gotta learn to speak the language. I got a brief lesson when I stayed there for a few weeks; laundromat is "wash-ta-teria", "you guys" is not to be used when the tender gender is included; "getting ready" is not in the vocabulary - its "fixin'"!!
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Edited 10/7/2007 1:36 pm by Huck
BAja Oklahoma....that's funny.
I am getting a kick out of the different culture. It's been a bit of a culture shock to say the least. I kinda know what minoritys feel like now. I've been told I have an accent LOL!
I do like Austin but I'm kinda freaked out about how quick the cops are to mace people.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Hey Jim. Welcome to Texas. If you havent already you should look up TRCC.
http://www.trcc.state.tx.us/
It is the state "licensing" agency. It is not much in the way of a true license but it is a begining in the right direction. When we started our business there was nothing like that in Texas.
You only need it if you are building a new house or adding on to a house. If your work is roofing or siding or anything that doesnt increase the footprint you dont need one....yet.
This is probably info you have already got but if you have any other questions email me.
MikeWhen everthing is going your way, you're in the wrong lane
Thanks for the tip Mike.
We are already TRCC licensed and we've got the insurance in place. I will have to develop some understanding of how the insurance systems work here in TX. I've gotten conflicting info regarding the WC laws.
Thanks for the welcome.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
What's a Rocket hammer? The reason I ask is that my dad is helping on my project and the hammer he's been using for thirty years is a Rocket given to him by his grandfather when he started building his house. Was Rocket a popular braind or anything special? My dad's appears to be from the 50's or 60's.
Greg,
I believe the "Rocket " was a "True Temper" hammer. Stanly actually manufactured them I believe.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Almost all of the Michigan framers that I worked with used a Rocket. Most were 20 oz smooth face. They had the perfect rip claw with a narrow width and a perfect angle for digging into the wood and grabbing the head of a nail. The carpenters that mentored me didn't carry nail pullers but they could grab any nail with one swipe of their sharpened claws and rip it out in one violent motion. Of course, this technique only worked on nails that were open for a full swiped swing.
Rockets were balanced well and produced a fast and accurate swing and most carpenters worked at a very fast tempo with them. Their only weakness was that the head would eventually separate from the shaft due to fatigue. Most rockets lasted about five years in the hands of heavy hitters. Back in those days, everyone was a heavy hitter. Sissies were sent packing. It was gung ho everyday all day. My boss was an army platoon leader.
Rocket eventually sold out this popular hammer to True Temper who predictably cheapened the quality of the product. What was once a finely produced honed masterpiece of steel with superb angles became a mass produced homeowner type product that no one would hang on their belt. I myself rued the day when I picked up a new rocket and looked at the awful claws....claws that didn't stand a chance of digging a nail out even if used in conjunction with another hammer to drive the claws under the head. It was a sad chapter in my career, one that would be repeated many times over in the coming years.
I loved my Rockets.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
Not sure why it'd bother ya.
I dont care if a guy is using a sledge hammer to do fine finish work as long as it works for him, what would it matter.
I know a guy that also uses an Estwing framer to do everything, feels good to him so........
I know another guy that built houses from frame to finish, never used anything but a Plumb 14oz. same hammer all those years.
Different strokes and all that jazz
Doug
I run trim and install cab's with a 20oz estwing ...
hope that's OK.
to be fair ... I usually do have my "trim hammer" in a box close by ... 16oz estwing ...
though the 20 always finds it's way out first.
and a sledge.
helps to run trim and set doors with a sledge.
not kidding about the sledge ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Is it a waffle head???
.
.
.
.
.
.
I have Transcended the need for Pants....
oooohhhhmmmmmm......
That was my thought too. I call 'em narled (sp?) head hammers. I agree with others above - whatever works for a guy - OTOH - narled head hammers aren't for finish work.
I use a trim nail setter, so the hammer is anything handy to whack it with, the hammer never sees the Alum.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I saw one by Malco yesterday and wondered how well they worked.
Helps keep the Alum/SS nails from bending as easily, and if they do, it is minimized as to not leave a pecker track in the Fascia.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Yea - I got one of those. (didn't know what it was called). Cylindrical thing with a plunger you hit - right? I've only used it when I had a place that was hard to get into. Course, it's not like I do metal work very often.
Mini pea shooter is what they are. Hamm dandy doing soffit channel , they get inside that 1/2" j and you can suck it up tite from inside the j.
Made one last yr out of 1/2" ID steel and 1/2" OD steel about 8'' long, copper roofing nails fit in it, for getting a nail up under a folded back shingle or other hard to nail place around curved dormers and such. Shoulda made two, my buddy keeps swiping it outta my bag.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
That isn't his helper though. That is Himself.
Long as it isn't a checked faced peckerheaded loose limbed worn out POC that he can't hit a nail with, it works for me.
I used a 16oz Plumb straight claw for almost twenty years. For almost everything except stripping forms. The old Estwing gets to do that.
Head got rounded off and claws got short by almost an inch, so I dug out an old plumb 20 ox head, smooth faced, and mounted it on a wood handle for the last year or so. Didn't realize how much I missed the wood handle
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
the hammer in question is a stilleto i think, the 22 ounce is really only 14 ounces because of its titanium head. I have been using the same for about four years now and love it not only because the weight makes it versatile enough for framing and trim but also i haven't gotten tennis elbo once since i have started using it. Having a waffle face keeps me from smacking the finish wood directly when doing trim ( which really should not be done with any hammer anyway) and forces me to get a block every time. They are expensive but if your swinging it all day every day, well worth it. The only draw back is when you need a persuader with some weight it doesn't quite give it to ya.
Thats not a 22 oz hammer, it's a Stilletto Titanium hammer, it might be the 14 oz or the 16 oz size.
I use their 14 oz for almost everything.
The bad thing I see in the photo is face nailing, if no gutters are going on face nailing is ugly. A little bit of sun and the waves come out.
I clamped my belt sander (with 60 grit belt) down to my bench and removed the waffle face from day one. Thats another thing that can be bad.
Matt
Edited 10/7/2007 6:38 am ET by Stilletto
So Jim, I gather that you arre the once famous Blue-eyed Devil!???Have you unpacked your speed square yet?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes Piffin, I am the not so famous BED.
I didn't bring many tools to Texas though. Just prior to the move, I suffered for two months with a wicked, and I do mean WICKED, case of sciatia. I was still laid up pretty bad when I landed in Austin. Even months later, I can't imagine doing half of the things I used to do. I'm kinda forced out of the field and into the office....permanently.
Truthfully, I think I did see a speed square lying around the truck though. They did make good ice scrapers LOL. I do own one....I just never used them for anything.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
I don't think you'll need to scrape much ice around Austin. You might get to use it as a fly swatter though.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My guys all use 22 oz smooth face framing hammers for trim. It doesn't make sense for me but it feels good to them so I say if the work looks good (and it does) then go for what feels comfortable. We even worked them into our new Tee shirt design... The top hammer is the 22 oz the boys use for every thing and the bottom is my 20 oz California curved claw.
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
They still use hammers?????
WoW it's a STIETTO titanium smooth faced hammer and I bet it's only 14oz or so and it's a great hammer I have one and use it for everthing. I know it's large but feels so good after years of smackrs in my hand. Glad to see that someone can afford to own one and not feel guilty for indulgine in such a pleasure other than myself.
good times. good luck, and good friends. may they always be tru.
RB