Additon being built on top of a garage in Orlando. Can the builder get away with this? Wont it leak.
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Probably not until after said builder gets to cash his check.
What is there to leak? That pukey seals the shingles tight to the flashing. Re-roof a few of those and you willl see how tight.
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Piffen, I have. And replaced the roof deck near them as a result of the rot as well.
Give time for the freeze thaw cycles to work and the "pukey" loses it's grip. Just not a good way to flash a side wall.
How many freeze-thaw cycles do you figure that roof will see during the course of its life in Orlando? 10 in 20 years might be on the high side.
I had always figured that it was different north and south because it is so hard to spoon and trowel cold plastic cement or to get it to stick to frosty flashing.
Fact is, on re-roofs, I havve seen far more watersign near step flashings than near this type
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
John, I didn't even notice where the location was.
I just opened the pic and looked at it.
Must be a regional thing . I can't think of a single shingle manufacturer whose install info I have seen that recommends what is pictured. Guess the people who taught me to step flash might have been wrong. But then again they taught me that if I needed to use more than a couple of dabs of sealant on a 3-tab roof (to cover the last exposed nails on the ridge) I wasn't doing a quality job .
dovetail-ya have me laughing.
the few times i have had to buy a can of Karnak-- i kept it hidden under a tarp in the back of the truck----afraid somebody might see me with it and think that was the best i can do.
really, can't think of the last time i have bought a can of tar.
i even keep the Geocel locked up in the truck box----don't want to much of THAt in sight either.
we all have our misplaced vanities, I suppose.
stephen
really, can't think of the last time i have bought a can of tar.
i even keep the Geocel locked up in the truck box----don't want to much of THAt in sight either.
LOL!! Me too!
Speaking of ignorance though....
The other week we had a new (to us) G.C. ,who hired us to roof a new 35sq. ranch, (hip roof, 5/12, Elk 30s, little bay window out the back) tell me several times b4 we started "I want an excellent job, if you need to use extra caulk or tar or whatever, y'know then go ahead. I dont want callbacks." And on and on.
He must've said that like 4 or 5 times. Always about wanting a superior job and not skimping on the caulk. The first time I tried to explain that we knew what we were doing, hence not relying on the caulk to hold the water out, but gave up and figured ,what the hell.
So we show up to do the job and the first thing I see is the ridge of the little gable over the garage is sagging where it intersects the main roof, maybe 3 or 4 inches. Brand new house. Stick framed roof,12"oc, but NOTHING holding the short ridge up!
Literally, the ridge stuck past the valley rafters about a foot, the valley rafters intersected the ridge, the jacks on boths side intersected the valley and....... friggin unbelievable. How do you know enough to cut an entire roof, but dont know enough to support a ridge????
Anyhoo, after cutting and installing a temporary ridge brace to fix the trampoline that was the roof, we get started. 3 hrs into it, HE shows up, climbs up on the roof and begins a nose-to-the-roof-inspection. No kidding.
After 15 minutes he grabs my brother( also my business partner) and begins gesturing and pointing to a small area on part of the roof that is completed. I watch the expression on my bro's face go from amusement, to puzzlement, to frustration, and then dangerously close to anger. I wander over. HE is pointing to a small area of shingles and saying "I really want an excellent job, not a mediocre one..." kind of gestures at the roof in general.
I look where he is pointing. 3 shingle corners are mis- aligned. By 1-8 to 3/16 of an inch! ( I measure, with him standing there. He agrees that is the measurement) No nails are exposed, and from normal standing height on the roof, it is nearly invisible. Not to mention from the ground 40 feet away. He goes on to say (get this) that he understands "the customer will never notice, it wont ever leak, it will still seal down and it wont shorten the life of the roof, but it isnt a good job" Soooooo what is the problem????
Then to cap it all off he tells me he wants me to have my guys slow down so they can do a better job, because and I quote him in full here" It doesn't matter to me if it takes you two or three days to get done." !!!! I inform him that I would then have to triple my price from $30 a square to $90. He ignores this.....
He blathers on in the " excellence, not mediocrity" vein for a while, so I firmly but politely explain to him that by any measure of workmanship and function, this roof is above and beyond the standards of our profession. He points to the rows I just finished running above the afore mentioned ridge and says " Yeah, well those rows are crooked too." Uh uh.
So I get my chalkline out, walk over, have one of the guys hold on the top of the row, walk 25 feet over to the end of the row and set the line down on the roof. My rows are straight as an arrow. His roof on the other hand sags below the line a solid inch and a half..........
Sorry for the hi-jack guys <G>
i betcha if it was T and M he would Overlook these things he brought up
woody,
Ain't it the way ... Sure hope you mentioned fixing his framers work for him when he was blathering on about excellence.
Sure hope you mentioned fixing his framers work for him when he was blathering on about excellence.
Oh, I mentioned it all right.
On the bill. Before the total. I like to itemize all charges related to doing an excellent job
dude wants a lot for $30/square doesn't he?-- that story is pretty funny--glad it's happening to somebody else, LOL.
stephen
Don't think you were taught wrong at all, more of a regional thing. I know of more than a few roofs that were flashed this way and they don't leak. Per mfg instructions is a different story.
That was the standard method used to seal sidewall flashings in the south when I leaarned. Never saw a step flashed wall untill I moved north.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
That was the standard method used to seal sidewall flashings in the south when I leaarned. Never saw a step flashed wall untill I moved north.You've gotta stop putting the south under this blanket you keep spreading. Just 'cause you've worked in Florida and Texas doesn't mean you've seen it all. I've never seen flashing like that in any part of the south I've lived in...and jeeze, it's pookie, not pukey ;-) Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
I'm not sure what you are getting at - are Florida and Texas not south of the places where I first saw step flashing used? I'm saying nothing negative about either region, only that there are different methods for different places.
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You're right, you can't get much further south than Florida and Texas, but if you think that covers all the south, you got a lotta 'splainin' to do to a bunch of other states.You know, I can only speak for specific areas I have lived and worked in, just because I saw a guy mix cement with a rake in Moosehead Lake, Maine doesn't mean everybody in the state, or the north for that matter, does. Painting with a broad brush sorta wipes out the details... Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
I never intended to wipe the whole south - wherever that border is. All I know is that when I worked in those two southern states, that was the respected, expected and ionspected method used. When I moved north, I learnt a different method. How far north do you cross a line, I don't know. Why you think I'm castigating southerners? I'm here defending a method used in the south! As far as how widespread this method is - I worked for Lydick Roofing Company - at that time the largest in Texas with large shops in five cities and sending crews almost anyplace in the state. They gauranteed their work longer than anybody around. That was their primary method for dealing with this flashing. I did not have to learn anything new because I had already learnt it in Florida.The only variation I saw on it down there was for life long roofs like tiles, asbestos, or slate, a 4" or 6" membrane was bedded in the plastic roof cement and topcoated again.
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Hey, c'mon you've made more than one disparaging comment about building practices in the south. Maybe founded, maybe not. You're a detail oriented guy, the dean of BT U. The "south" is a big place, with a lot of diversity, building practices, among other things. So, what is specific to "all over Texas" isn't necessarily practiced all over the "south." I've joked with you about this over the years, but my point now is, I think you should be specific when relating anecdotal information to areas.I actually first replied to you to straighten out the pookie not pukie thing, though I'm definitely going to tell the guys that up north it's pukie<G>Hell, I'm a transplant from PA, I'm here by choice, and I like it...but dang, I'd never flash a roof that way! Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Yes, I have made some broader negative comments about the whole of the south in other places and it is partly because of your previously having called me on that, that I was quite specific in this thread about florida and Texas. You are the one who broadened it to the whole here in this thread, probably reading into it from my past, but not from anything I said here. And let's keep it in context here. Those were negative comments in the past, and in this thread, my comments are positive. It is the other guys who know nothing about this flashing style that are negative about it.
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I took it from here:<That was the standard method used to seal sidewall flashings in the south when I leaarned. Never saw a step flashed wall untill I moved north.>Doesn't seem too specific to me<G>Anyway, I can see how it might work for a while in the way south, see how specific I can be...but in my experience, Black Cat gets brittle, especially from cold weather. That, coupled with the expansion/contractraction thing aluminum flashing gets going makes cracks, which make leaks, at least around here. I've seen more than my share of failed pookie around chimneys and sidewalls.Maybe that flashing's galvanized, I don't know...but it's still not something I'd want to see on my house. Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
26Ga galvanized is what that is. Maybe even 24Ga.kin we go to bed now Dahlin'
Ahm tarred of all this faughtin'I really do not have any negative feelings about the south. if there were fewer people in Virginia or Carolina, I might want to try it again.
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If this fightin' I gotta tell Mrs 'Snort LOL night Gracie Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Matbe I shuda poted this in the Tavern. ;-)
While I myself hate seeing chimneys gummed up to fix leaks you can't compare exposed tar to covered tar. If you use that logic then every tar down application and adhesive application is done wrong.
You may be right, but around here, they don't use the same kind of stuff on a tar down...now maybe, if they used pookie under the flashing as well as on top...but judging from from the house wrap detail in the pic, I'd say naaahhh...that's not a system I'd want...I'm missing why folks are doing repairs if it's such a good way? Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Edited 4/1/2007 9:34 am ET by Snort
I am butting in here to dispell a vivid roumour.
Just bec we are south of the Manson/Nixon line, it don't make us hacks and thieves , nor shoddy.
I am a true example of a "carpet bagger", I am a Yankee, with purpose, my purpose is to provide the best service. in the worst of situations.
I might have read this all wrong, I am prone to doing so, but the gist of your post, kinda rubbed me wrong..and your defensevness of your stance, did not help.
I;ll shut up now.Parolee # 40835
We already burned a cross in his yard<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
I hate it when it won't light..
BTW I heard Robbin Williams quote about Elton John////// 60th Bday.........
{he makes Liberachi, look Amish)Parolee # 40835
I'll see what I can do for you guys later on Valleys. Right now I'm unwinding and gathering myself before going off to meet with a client.Probably be in another thread. I know we discussed this once before after Mike Guertin did the article on it. So I'll see if I can find that thread first and keep from repeating it all.
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10-4. I gotcher back,Parolee # 40835
Florida & Texas ain't the South. Any self-respecting southener knows that!
I can't count how many of those we have had to deal with. Birds, bees, and squirreells LOVE that Niche. I have taken to making a baffle block pan, from the soffit to the roof out of copper, and I made a "pea-shooter" so I could nail it.
The Pea shooter is a 1/2" Diam. steel rod, that rides in a sleeve of hollow steel..like an E-channel siding tool, but bigger...I can then get up in there, and smack in a roofer to hold the sheet metal. We usually don't have air or power onsite, so a palm nailer is out of the question.Parolee # 40835
Sphere,
I own a nailer like that .
Picked it up years ago for nailing into recesses. Mine has a 2 lb. weighted handle so it works like a slide hammer.
Man that thing can drive some nails when you throw the slide forward.
I really like making my own devices, self gratifacations abound...it beats the hangover from the short happy we can find in other venues...ahhh a lasting impression, like a taste in your mouth, or the whiff..of a passeure by...........
Be waxing poetic...Parolee # 40835
Nice though , I appreciate the thoughts and sentiment.
At least they flashed it. My cousin had a "builder buddy" add his garage. This yoyo sheathed over the shingles where the new wall met the old roof. Its three years old and he has mold in his garage.
Nice buddy, huh?
Back under that overhang, in my area( Akron, Ohio)--it might never leak.
even so--- I can't imagine any semi competent roofer doing it that way----------- I could shingle and step flash that in less time and with less potential mess---than opening that can of Karnak would require.
stephen
Brings back fond memories of roofing where the dormer roof meets the main roof (at the top of your pic). Fun to crawl up in there and try to nail shingls--especially when the dormer overhang is wider and the roofs are shallower pitched! I guess not much water gets up under there anyway.
It would take the same amount of time to step flash it and do it right, Here by me we have to even close off the upper part as the wind drives the rain up hill.
We do the same in my area as well. Also helps keep the nesters from making a home in that sheltered area of the roof. .
You might know how hard the wind blows in seaside then;)
bobbys Hmm, Do you want your street signs back that I picked up on my lawn after last years storms?
"It would take the same amount of time to step flash it and do it right"First thing - how do you know how long it takes if you haven't done it? It can take longer to do it that way than to step flash IMO.Second - it is not a right and wrong. The method shown is considered the right way in Florida and in Texas when I worked there. In areas of wind blown rain, I would trust this better than step flashing unless there were ice and water shield run up the wall behind step flashing. This is a simple matter of regional differences adapted to the climate is all it is. You guys who have never seen it before don't need to condemn it out of your own ignorance
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piffin i have done roofing for 30 years yes all in the north, Right now im on the oregon coast where winds can be a steady 100 mph, In all my travels i have never seen that or read where its ok to do that, While i have never been in Texas or Florida i have worked with guys from there and never seen that done by them, Yes i know exactly how long it takes as once i was told to do it that way, It did not work and i redid it, You did not need to put in the part about my ignorance.That was uncalled for
In this one post you have said that you have done it once and that in all your travels and reading you have never seen it or done it.
That's contradictory.If you were told one time to do it and it leaked, it is obvious that you weere not taught how to do it and that is the reason it leaked. That is not your fault, but it still demonstrates that you do not know about it which is the definition of ignorance.The comment about ignorance, was for everybody who knows nothing about this method and still chooses to go ahead and insult the method and those who are succesful in using it. Since you don't know about it, having never seen it in all your travels and reading, you are by definition ignorant of it. That is not an insult as you takle it. It is a simple statement of fact, and somebody who is ignornat of something should not comment that it is wrong or condemn it. Instead, they should open their minds and learn something.
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Piffin you dont know me perhaps i sounded like a know it all and came off wrong to you. Your the one that keeps with the name calling, If they want to do that by you my hats off to ya, Nit picking the word never in my context is silly, I have been all over, opps never to the south dont wanta be a liar again, sorry, Anyway i can frame with toenails or, The western way, I can roof stacked or racked, eastern or western, In a shingle or shake roof there should never be much tar if any used, Roof cement drys expands shrinks, Yes in a layover people use it but its not something thats done in a new roof, I never meant to insult you. I keep hearing your name here i thought you were above the way you have talked with me and your skills more advanced then spreading the black mammy;)
Yeah I have all those diffeerent skills, the right one for the right job in th erifght place. One size does not fit all.I was not calling you any names at all. The word ignorant is not a name. I am ignorant of a whole lot of things, Just different things than you are ignorant of. Nobody knows it all.
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fair enough piffin If you knew me you would know i dont mean to come across as a know it all i dont like that either, For example i can do a valley 6 ways yet everyone has there own way, however when in doubt theres directions on the roofing wrappers, I just have never seen that done or written in any manuals. maybe its common where you are or have been, Im just surprized.
Edited 4/1/2007 12:59 am ET by bobbys
Right!
You and I are two of few people who know all six ways to run a valley. Some are right for some situations or materials or climates, but not others.Now how many of those methods are demonstrated on the wrapper of the shingles? one or two is all. That does not make the other methods invalid just because they are not aas widely promoted, does it? And so far in this thread, we have discussed two methods of wall flashings. There are at least two more methods that work that I know of. All four work in the right time and place, when done right.There are some shingle layers who thinkit is wrongto course shingles racked straight up and others who think it is wrong to stair step the pattern. All that says about them is how little they know.There is always more to learn and that is why I compare this place to a university in my signature line.stay dry friend
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>There are some shingle layers who thinkit is wrongto course shingles racked straight up and others who think it is wrong to stair step the pattern. All that says about them is how little they know.< Well your right about that for sure I dont think i ever met one person that did not think his way was the right way. Funny thing about valleys, Most everyone who thought he could weave a valley had no idea how to do it yet was convinced they were doing it right, I saw very few guys knew how to do it right,
Even fewer who know how to do it left.
bobbys, See my recent post to Piffen. 87929.56 ;-)
Edited 4/1/2007 11:21 am by dovetail97128
My combo jersey Oregun half lace upside down double weave valley ending wit a twist is a secret only a few roofers and porno stars know, Im sorry i might tell pifin bout this but only if he shows me his;)
bobbys, I only know two ways to do a valley. The wrong way and the right way . What seperates them is one leaks and the other doesn't. ;-)
I say let's see those valleys, too! I can only come up with 3, apparently, my bag of tricks is low<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Now theres no more 3 tab that i can see anyway i think theres only 2 or 3 ways to do a valley.
Oh good, then I haven't missed anything<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Don't be running off yet - I still have a browser tab open to the copper pipe fiasco...;)
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Wife's at the beach, I'm trying to schedule subs, get a projections inspection tomorrow, and meddle in every thread here that I can...like I'm going far<G>Did I do something obnoxious in some copper pipe fight? I'm still using Qest, CRS is hell, link me! Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
No - it is just that when ever you try using search - well not alll the time, but often enuf - some strange thread about copper pipe keeps poking up like as tho it is the default search answer whenever the wizard of prospero is gone to the bathroom or whatever he does with himself behind that curtain
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We can get thre tabs still, but I agree, I don't care for lapping or weaving valleys with the thick laminated architectural shingles. Unl;ess it is really warm, you are flexing too much and separating or actually breaking the shingle right where the water flow runs.
Fact is, I always thought that a lapped or woven valley was the ugliest way to do a roof too.
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Piffen,
if you go back and look at the picture-------
to my eye it looks like the guy has put his flashing on top of the tyveck and then caulked it to the wrap.
Is that another southern thing?
no siding on the house-----and he can't get that flashing UNDER the wrap?
really---to my eye---the only thing stopping that mess from leaking-----is the overhang above it.
BTW----wind blows HERE as well----we call 'em tornadoes
I will admidt--- I am kind of snotty about this particular flashing" style"
I have come across it plenty up here----it's a mess for the next guy who has to work that roof------and at least here--- I don't think I have ever seen it on a nice house.
karnak on chimneys is a real pet peeve of mine-----20 minutes of some jacklegs best efforts----screws up the aesthetics of every subsequent flashing job untill the chimney is dismantled.
on a seperate note---conversationally-----what's the deal with Texas?---half the time they claim they are the south------half the time they claim they are the west---what gives?---Arizona, new mexico and california never pull that stunt, LOL.
snow melted off up there yet????
Stephen
We still have snow in the shady places.I saw the improper lap on the Tyvek too, but figured I had enough argumentation going. It is wrong, it does look like somebody ran a bead of clear caulk instead of lapping it right. I just figured the OP was noticing what was to him a unique way of flashing. FWIW, I have always used steps and no goop on chimneys. For walls - with either steps or this 4x4 +, I always dry-in so the paper runs at least 8" up the wall behind the flashing.One reason they were not concerned about the next guy on these flashings in Florida is that it would be rusted out by time the next roofer hit it and would need replacement aalong with the shingles.
That was the theory anyhow. In TX, we just grunted and swore and exposed it again. Once you get the technique down, it really isn't all that hard to expose.Your comment on Tx has more to do with history and politics than the geography and climate issue that affects roofs
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My magnolia trees are just blooming now.
only place left with snow is an old railroad siding downtown. we had about a foot of snow a couple months ago----and when the city plowed out downtown---they trucked the snow over to that abandoned depot and dumped it in mountains--------
kind of funny now to see snow steaming as rain hits it--------------
stephen
I was plowing snow three weeks ago.The grass might start getting green any day now.Being on an island we get some moderation from the ocean overall, but this time of year, the island is about three weeks behind the mainland on this stuff - green grass, lilacs blooming, etc.But it does not get too hot in summer, there are few skeeters or black flies, and it stays warm longer into the winter when they are having frost and snow we are still comfortable
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hey piffen-------- you will maybe appreciate this.
today is my wifes' birthday---april1, no fooling,
anyhow-wants the rain stopped this afternoon--she has been out playing with her birthday gift that I got her.
a cubic yard of topsoil i delivered yesterday for a new perenial bed she is adding!
that's right-- i bought my wife DIRT for a birthday gift.
man-tell ya what--you know ya really got a low maintenance"keeper" when she asks for a birthday gift of DIRT.-- am i lucky or what?
the best things really are the simple things!
stephen
hazlett,
Man tell her happy birthday . we all should be so lucky. Btw. My younger brother is also a year older today.
I got my old gal four yards last year!;)
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I got mine 4 yards of mulch last year--she was actually giddy with excitment.
then the charges from the nursery start showing up on the visa bill, LOL.
Stephen
Yeah, gotta support your local nursery!;)
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Power Company just cut out under all the lines on our road...I got them to dump a load of chips...then Mrs 'Snort wanted a new wheelbarrow for her birthday, gotta love a gal who's into simple machines<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Stephen
on a seperate note---conversationally-----what's the deal with Texas?---half the time they claim they are the south------half the time they claim they are the west---what gives?---
What they really want is to be an independent country!
Doug
Edited 4/1/2007 11:31 am ET by DougU
"to my eye it looks like the guy has put his flashing on top of the tyveck and then caulked it to the wrap."
That was the first thing I noticed too.
To me, that's the worst part of this particular job. The flashing doesn't look like any big deal.
T-shirt: Spineless, And Proud Of It
Piffen and bobbys You two gurus each know 6 ways to do valleys.
But are they the same 6 ways?. A mathmatician would say there are 12 possible ways given what information each has stated. I think you both need to enlighten those poor souls amongst us who only know 4 or 5 as to what each of the 6 ways you know consists of. Heck you each may learn another 6 ways .
;-)
"Roofing stacked " would be considerd wrong by many. Its not in the manufactures directions but I have done it that way many times. Just as flashing in this manner could be done right but not within manufactures directions.
Many things not mentioned come into play here .
1. I would only use this technic if the builder asked me to do it this way and assumed responsibility .
2. I would only use this method of flashing if the wall was shorter than 12'.
3. When tar is covered it will last as long as the shingles.
4. Even with flashing movment a short run of 12' wont fail. If the tar is applied half on and half off ,like in the pic, then the point they meet is where separation could occur in some spots. The portion still on the flashing acts as a diverter as much as a sealer. Like I said before its like a gutter directing the water downward.
Now I have used this method only two times in the hundreds of roofs I installed. I am proud to say they never leaked. Why because I can figure out how to 'get er done".
While here at Breaktime we discuss the best way to get things done and most of the time that is by industry and manufactures standards it does not mean that every other way is wrong. Its just not coverd by the manufactor.Sure there are preferred and suggested methods but I like to think we are still good enough to make it last doing it another way if needed.
That is code for FL. All flashings must be sealed with plastic cement. 4" plastic cement on drip edge to seal starter. 3-tab must be sealed on 1st course, either plastic cement or starter cut off. cut valleys must be plastic cemented. All penetrations sealed with plastic cement. and 6-nailed. Siding guy will tape that flashing to the housewrap so it is continuous. You can step-flash, just be sure to plastic cement it. 10 years roofing in the panhandle, few problems with this type flashing.
OK I belive what you said about the flashing. But can you explain the diagonal tar paper?
never ever do that
What's "roofing stacked"...Pamela Anderson with a nail apron?
When you run your shingles from a measurement of 29" 35" off the rake so you end up running your shingles like bricks. you end up having to lift an end to nail under but in requires less moving around.
Most run there shingles according to the directions starting with a full shingle then cutting 6" off for the next and so on. You end up running them diagonally .
In the end both roofs are just as leak proof but a pattern can be visable when running stacked.
Edited 4/1/2007 7:04 pm ET by AllTrade
This is a simple matter of regional differences adapted to the climate is all it is. You guys who have never seen it before don't need to condemn it
Hmmmm, I seem to think the same thing quite often when we start discussin frames....
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Touche`
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have lived in both Fla and Texas ..
and I can vouch for U.
with out a doubt ...
they are definitely in the South.
Hope this clears everything up.
also ... I-10.
the road that crosses both ... also southern.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I would say that is the way that 75% of the roofers (use term loosely) do it around here.
I was taught to step flash all wall and roof meetings evenly up and out and never nail into the one preceding. We frown on trailer tar usage on new. But I'd be a liar if I said we've never used it.
Worse Karnak abuse I've seen is when roofers smother the entire original flashing of a chimney, at least a foot up on all sides. Real pretty to look at.
Edited 3/31/2007 5:40 pm ET by girlbuilder
My very favorite sign of the presence of hacks in the neighborhood....
"Worse Karnak abuse I've seen is when roofers smother the entire original flashing of a chimney, at least a foot up on all sides. Real pretty to look at."
Isn't that the case? The DIY HO changes a small damp spot leak next to the chimney into a funnel leak that requires a bucket. Then you can't get the stuff off to find the original small leak. :-)
I had a brother-in-law who would use half a gallon of the stuff over the top when a teaspoon full under the tab would have solved the problem.
Only if the wind blows while rain falls...
weather ever do that in Florida?
Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
meets FL code. wind will blow water right up under that step flashing, especially when it gets up around 80 mph and above
Also, a 4" band of bull around the entire perimeter of the roof to bed the shingles over the drip edge.
I'm with Piffin. While not the preferred way to flash it will last. When not exposed to the sun ,tar will last a long time.
Consider it like a gutter system just keeping the water flowing down hill. Before Velux and Anderson all skylights where done in this manner.
Thanks to all for your input. What was said was kind of what I figured, not the preferred method but allowable. BTW have you seen tar paper done like this and why (same job BTW).
I caught the angled lay of the tarpaper in that first shot shown and wondered why that was. Never seen it before and figured he was working out of a valley close by.
Now I'm even more puzzled seeing it married into a horizontal run
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
There is not a flashing and counter flashing in combination. The ability to not leak is directly related to the glue/tar underneath not getting a crack in it or breaking the seal between the metal pan and the back of the shingle.
Interesting how roofing felt is laid.
Edited 4/1/2007 5:42 pm by gb93433
Seems to me when I've seen that done in the mid-south they left a 2" clear section of the flashing like you would a valley. Not my choice of how to flash but never saw one leak any more than a bad step flash job.
" Bad step flash job"----
that's a critical 3 word phrase ya got there that I just almost missed---------
as luck would have it- i took some pictures of just such a thing this morning.
when i get a chance maybe later today--I was gonna post 'em over in the " small jobs" thread in the business folder--- maybe kill 2 birds with one stone????
stephen