Replies

1. 
   FrankB89 | Dec 03, 2002 10:51pm | #1

   The first order of business on a rural property, in my opinion (and I've been rural most of my life), is to get potable water (actually, it's best if verification of a water supply, and septic approval for that matter, are a condition of sale).

   The access is important but can remain pretty basic until your homesite is determined, which may be dictated to some degree by the location of your septic system. 

   Not knowing your terrain or location or features of the property makes my response a little sketch, but things like springs and wetlands or creeks or slide prone areas can also impact a lot of your final decisions, due to codes or land use restrictions or reparian zone considerations.

   I wish you well.  Making a new home in a quiet spot with elbow room can be a very fulfilling adventure!

   Jules Quaver for President   2004

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/3/2002 3:00:13 PM ET by Notchman

1. 
   lov2golf | Dec 04, 2002 04:22am | #11

   Thank you very much for your input.  Since there are lava outcroppings here and there and we want to be able to take in the view (spectacular)  I think I'm most concerned about the soil/rock.   There are lots of trees on the property and a seasonal creek on each side of us so I think water shouldn't be a problem and although we'd like to build on the side of a slight hill to catch the better view, we have a fairly flat 6 acre meadow to build on if that turns out to be best.

2. 
   BossHog | Dec 03, 2002 11:08pm | #2

   Sounds like quite an undertaking.

   My thought would be to get at least a temporary driveway in first. You, the architect, the builder, and God know who else are gonna need to get into and out of there on a regular basis. Keep in mind that a lot of trucks will be using it. Don't make it so it's just barely wide enough for a car.

   Then I'd think about getting an architect and having them look over the property. They may come up with some creative suggestions that will work well for a house on your unique site.

   As for power - Virtually EVERY house I've been involved in seems to get temporary power set up about a month after they had intended to. So plan well ahead. Reliable power will make everyone's job easier.

   I wouldn't think there's any point in hiring a soils engineer until you know exactly where you want the house. The well could probably wait, as the location of the house may have some bearing on where you place the thing.

   Don't forget to check on local zoning laws BEFORE you start anything.........

1. 
   lov2golf | Dec 04, 2002 04:36am | #12

   Thank you everyone, you've been very helpful.  I feel a little better prepared.  I agree it's a huge task and I had no idea where to make a logical start.  Since the property is in a fire zone, the well  might be a good first choice, but since there are a few lava outcroppings,  I might just check out out local dowser (?spelling) first.   We have a homesite picked out,  but a soil engineer might tell us we'd have to blow out the foundation instead of digging it out.   Oh, lots of decisions to make, but I hear you loud and clear re the right architect.  Thanks again.

3. 
   WayneL5 | Dec 04, 2002 12:46am | #3

   In my opinion I'd start with the architect.  Until you know where the house will be sited you really can't do any other work and be sure it's in the best location.  He may show you a really creative concept that puts the house in a position you don't anticipate.  So long as you can get onto the land now, even if you have to hike, I wouldn't put any money into improvements until an architect looks it over.  When he sees the site he'll know what you will have to watch out for.   Like, for example, he'll know if the geology is questionable and tell you you'll need a test before going through the trouble of designing a house.

1. 
   Haole27 | Dec 04, 2002 01:29am | #5

   I agree, find a GOOD architect first. Their assessment of your property will include how big you can go based on septic field, setbacks, etc. This can lead to specific design style and where it can be sited on your lot. They can coordinate the surveying, soil testing, etc as they will have acquired many good references over the years.

1. 
   Nails | Dec 04, 2002 02:56am | #6

   H27    Those are great reasons , a good one does more than draw floor plans .I'll add these to my list of reasons when I'm recommeneding to a client.   Thanks

1. 
   Haole27 | Dec 05, 2002 07:19pm | #13

   Nails,

   Thanks for your kind words, to refine my original point further...

   A good arch or (a good GC) can be wonderful site superintendants, coordinating the contractors, surveyors, wells, septics, etc. Ideally, the arch and gc know one another, get along, and have done prior, similar jobs without incident. A complete plan review with all main parties (arch, eng, gc, framer, plumber, hvac, elect) is mandatory.  A little time spent for this "kickoff" meeting will save mucho time and money later! This is the time to nail down final contract language, timelines, expectation, reservations, etc. FH had a piece about this topic about a year ago and I couldnt agree more.

   Now, from a personal preference standpoint, as a pure design source, I would always chose an architect over a builder-designer.  They typically have better/more training, education, and experience in design.  

   What really drove this point home was the HGTV show "before and after", showing numerous major home remod projects. I tend to like the designs from the architects much better, some of the other guys who do this produce some real abortions!  

   H

2. 
   MGMaxwell | Dec 04, 2002 03:08am | #7

   These guys know a lot.  I've been at this site for a long time, and they make good points. However, when I bought and built on my 130 acres in rural North Carolina I started with the "house" builder and the road builder. Your access may be easier than mine, but the length of the road and its expense may limit your choices. A good builder along with observation of your neighbors' houses and their placement should be all you need to site it properly. Pay attention to the angles of the sun, prevailing winds, and the views you want. I found the services of an architect to be extremely expensive.  There are thousands of plans available in books that you can order. You can make them more to your liking and individualistic by the way you finish the details and the materials you choose. There  is no way to miss water when you drill where I am, but your area may be different. However you're not going to know where the water is anyway from the surface.

   I say walk the property with stakes, and "plant" several houses. Come back with the road guy and get an estimate of cost and feasibility with regard to steepness, rain, snow or whatever. Then with (hopefully) several sites to choose from go over the pros and cons with your builder. He or she should be more than somewhat familiar with soil conditions and drainfield placement.

4. 
   pinemarten1 | Dec 04, 2002 01:04am | #4

   Welcome:

   My wife and I purchased 30 "raw" acres in No. MN 2 summers ago and are "building" our home on it.

   Here is where we started:

   1.   Survey, with points on the line, so you know exactly where you are.

   2.  Walk, walk, walk the property and note interesting characteristics (trees, highpoints, view (potential views), etc)

   3.  Pick homesite.  We picked ours based on the geographics of the property.  We picked a small knoll, with good views, and good drainage all around.

   4.  Get started on a design.  Advice - do not let your architect have a free hand - we did, and got a montrousity and ended up firing the architect who would not listen to our wants.  Start with a solid concept and stick to it.    Once you are sure of your rough footprint and site plan, proceed with #4.

   4.  Rough in a driveway.  We started with a foot trail, and once we decided we liked the layout, I consulted with our excvator to make sure he thought it would work (drainage, slope, soils, etc).  Then I brushed it out, and the excavtor roughed it in.

   5.  Power.  Underground to transformer and meter base.

   6.   Septic design and county approval

   7.   Well drilling and testing.

   At the same time the above are occuring, you should be thinking about whether you want to try and GC the project yourself, or find a GC. 

   Bottom line - there are a million details, and unless you are prepared to learn via the school of hard knocks, find a good builder and have them help you build your dream.

   I personally have taken the hard knocks route, but this site can prevent some, but just be prepared!

   Of course this is all predictated on being able to meet all the building permit issues.

   Good luck!

   Pinemarten

5. 
   FrankB89 | Dec 04, 2002 03:14am | #8

   I always hate to take issue with Boss Hog 'cause he's one of the good sources here, but I've developed and moved onto several rural properties in the mountainous West in my lifetime and I maintain that water is of primary consideration.

   A lot of that has to do with the geology:  If your property is in a large valley, you may have a large aquifer below which makes the odds of getting water fairly high;  But, on the other hand, if you're in the hills or mountains, the likelihood is that, from Northern California into Canada, you're located over igneous bedrock, most likely basalt or granite which is full of seams and fractures that serve as vessels and conduits for water.  Many times I've seen a 300 foot dry hole drilled and then another drilled 100 feet away with water galore.

   Some will belittle it, but I've seen some amazing results from "dowsing," or "witching."  I have dead hands, but there are usually dowsers in most small communities if you ask around.  And I've seen disappointing expensive results from people hiring a hydrologist.  As you get aquainted with the area, the locals will probably be more than willing to offer up help.

   The other issue with water is home financing;  most lenders require a water well capable of producing 5-6 gal. per minute bail test, or a water supply storage system that will meet projected (by the bank) usage based on the size dwelling you intend to build.

   So, I'll agree with Boss about getting the road in....but for accomodating a drilling rig.

   Good luck!

   Jules Quaver for President   2004

1. 
   BossHog | Dec 05, 2002 07:41pm | #14

   How DARE you disagree with me, you turkey..............(-:

   You make a good point, and one I hadn't really thought about: Water resources aren't the same everywhere. Around here, you can always find a spot to stick a well, and just pipe the water to the house. And the well almost always have water - It's just a question of how deep you wanna go.

   So I missed that - So sue me. I keep telling you guys I was hired for my good looks, not what I know.................(-:Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to interfere. [Groucho Marx]

6. 
   andybuildz | Dec 04, 2002 03:52am | #9

   KDK

         First of all you should go to town hall and find out the requirements. I was just out to Sebastopol Calif (an hour north of SF) from NY where I currently live. I bid on 11 acres there. The requirements were incredible. No septic could be dug after Nov and before April and the list went on and on and on. Check with town hall is the best advice I can give you. Let us know what happens.

   Be well

          Namaste

                     andy

   It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

7. 
   Piffin | Dec 04, 2002 04:01am | #10

   Start with spending time on site to get to know it.

   Then you need a layout plan of all structures and facilities - make it meaningful.

   For instance, there are very limited locations here where you can place a septic system. What if you already have the well drilled where the waste water system should go?

   Plan to orient your house both for view and shelter from the wind and/or exposure to sun. Think of the driveway construction and how a snow plow can run, or a firetruck, ambulance, etc.

   Whether you do this yourself or hire an architect depends on your budget.

   A kit house seldom provides maximum benefits. Custom design pays for itself in satisfaction.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

   "The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.

   The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

   --Marcus Aurelius

8. 
   billyg83440 | Dec 06, 2002 02:35am | #15

   Wow, that really sounds great. Hope it works well for you.

   In the mountains around me wells and roads are always the big issues. But I'm mostly familiar w/ mountainside land. A canyon may not have those issues. Make sure you know where any flood planes are though. A freak heavy rainstorm can put a lot of water down a canyon. You don't want your house or road in the way, they'll lose.

   Not sure why you don't want to hook to the grid, but I'd guess you may be better served by a solar electric system, maybe w/ a generator backup. I'm no expert, but I know that California offers some big tax deductions for solar power systems. Just make sure you get a good certified installer. Lots of know nothing hacks in solar power. And most good installers won't want to fix an amateurs mess (usually costs them too much money when they do). Solar's nice because it's so quiet, but it's expensive up front. No ongoing fuel costs though, you're truly independent once the system is working.

   Hope it works well for you.

   Bill

1. 
   brucepirger | Dec 07, 2002 02:26am | #16

   It sounds like a great spot! You mentioned seasonal creeks...what happens in that rare but occasional really nasty rain season? Sounds very rocky...I wouldn't be surprised if that did impact where you can build...or at least how deep you'll dig into your pockets to blast!

   Seismic stability an issue?

   I think being aware of the cost of things, or how various things may drive the cost through the roof, would be very valuable to know and to think about.