Looking for a used 4×4 diesel pick-em-up truck. Would anyone care to instill some wisdom as which engines were notoriously problematic? I know the 6.0 Duramax of early 2000’s was a loser. Who else? THanks.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The FHB Podcast crew takes a closer look at an interesting roof.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
I'm sure there are other opinions on this but here's mine: the company I work for has had an assortment of pickup trucks, both gasoline and diesel over the years and I much prefer the gasoline models. Unless the truck is going to be hauling a lot of heavy stuff all the time it doesn't make sense to put up with the noise, stink, and cost of a diesel. But, if you insist on a diesel, avoid the old Cummins in Rams before about 03 and the early Ford Powerstrokes before about 03. The 6.6L GMC Duramax we have usually works pretty well. I realize diesels get better fuel economy but between the extra initial cost and the cost of the fuel I don't think the payback is very good.
Those 2nd Gen dodges you speak of were were workhorses. We had one that went 340K mile before being traded in. True it sounded like a rock crsuher, adn there was sneaking up on someone with it.The body wore out before the engine. and he got 24 MPG every day.ML
Stay away from pre 2000 GMC diesels unless you enjoy replacing injector pumps.
i have the cummins 12valve in my motorhome... 36ft spartan chassis 22.5" wheels ect... and it gets 12mpg go'n 90 go figure.... I've heard the 24 valve are better but the old 12valve in marine form were over 300hp... and loge lived
p
It's a keeper. I have the 5.9 Common Rail 350HP/ 610 Lb Ft. and get good mileage compared to gassers pulling 6K lbs regularly.ML
The early 6.0 Ford/Internationals, '04 or so, had issues. The Ford haters will be along but the 7.3's were almost bulletproof and I'm very happy with mine. The Cummins engines are great but you have to get a Dodge to get one and thats a deal breaker for me. <grin> Just like politics, everyones got an opinion.
Still lurking after all these years.
hmj
Surprisingly the Cummins in the Dodge is the most reliable diesel with the best mileage but the rest of the truck is the worst. The later Ford and GM diesel are decent with the GM getting the better mileage and a slight nod with regard reliability.
When buying a used diesel proper maintinace records are critical. More than a few trucks never saw proper oil changes or filter maintinace.. due the the percieved reliability of diesels..
With regard imports. Izuzu has a very good reputation for durability and Mercedes Benz has a poor record.
after all this time I still can't find anything to back what you say about the Mercedes...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
IMERC
I should clarify that. Many Mercedes engines are either decent or great engines.. however the ones brought to this country for use in medium duty work in trucks were extremely short lived. 100,000 miles typical before rebuild time and the cost of rebuilds was usually high enough to make it cheaper to replace than rebuild..
That was because in an attempt to quickly gain significant market share they were misapplied frequently. In addition Mercedes does have a higher maintinace level than most other diesels because of the German mind set about the need for proper maintinace..
Drive your Mercedes Car into the dealership for the 50,000 mile check up and tell me they aren't expensive to maintain..
he's not buying a car frenchy...
it's truck....
try to keep up please...
to the person not one had a bad word to say about the Mercedes diesels in the Sprinters and the milage some of them had logged in was very impressive...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
IMERC
I used a car only because there are a lot more Mercedes cars out there than Mercedes trucks. I also clearly worded my complaint at the engines in medium duty trucks.
Please try to read completely in the future..
since cars should not have enter the comparrisons as cars are not quite the same as trucks...
that is what was addressed...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The 6.0 Navistar Fords had real main seal issues. We have a Duramax here that went through a set of injectors at 15K miles since it dumped 12 quarts of oil on I-15 We have a 2nd gen Dodge that went 340K before being traded in on a 3rd gen. My 3rd gen Dodge has 45K on it with no issues. Oil gets changed every 5K and I have it tested each time, along with a fuel filter every 10K.
I think if you could couple the 5.9 Cummins with an Allison trans on a ford body you'd be set.
ML
We have a 150 with a six, two 250s - V10 and Power Stroke and a Duramax with Allison Transmission.
Duramax W/ Allison gets the best mileage, extremely quiet and my favorite to drive.
Don't think I would buy another PS.
Hope that helps!
You will be safe with a Ford 7.3L or any Cummins. Stay clear of '03 & '04 Ford 6.0L - trust me, I have one. I'd be wary of the '05-'O7 ones as well. I don't have much experience w/ the GM's so I won't render an opinion there. If you want to go even older, make sure it's a model w/ a turbo & not naturally aspirated.
Shawn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checker Contracting - SE Michigan
Ford modified/reworked the International series diesels... and not for the better....
the 6.0's are a good bet to stay away from...
the 7.3's are their better engines because of all the patches that needed doing...
still they are expensive to repair because of sym-pathic collateral part failure... one part fails and there is this mass exodus of others...
replacing the glow plugs and wiring harnesses is a major financial crisis...
dianogstics can be a trial by fire...
the Durys here at altitude are usally only around for a couple of years at best and then get replaced...
get the Cummins...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2003/08/16/166965.html
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
http://forums.dieselpowermag.com/70/7005449/duramax/02-duramax-complaints-troubles/index.html
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
couldn't find much in the complaint department on Cummins nor Mercedes...
the trucks these engines are in are another matter..
not to mention the trannies behind them...
so..............
get a common rail Cummins/manual trans and put it in a F350 or better and drive a Fummins...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
My boy just bought a 04 duromax and they said it was 5 grand to redo the injectors but the warranty covered it.
Another guy told me his 01 was a lemon but the warranty covered everything.
I thought i would hate to buy one of these used and have to come up with 5 grand.
I had a 90 dodge Cummings that just ran and ran it was like a tank and its still going, They told me its a 500.000 mile engine and i believe it but the body was not and it was so rough a ride i could not take it
I believe the Cummins isn't even broke- in until 300K. :)ML
Duramax after 2004.5 (engine designation LLY) and onward are great ... GM will warranty injector replacement up to 200k miles since they had so many older ones go bad. Allison transmissions speak for themselves.
I went with chevy since they still look like a truck ... too many style queues and curves on the new stuff.
Had a 7.3, loved it. Still do, I just dont own it anymore. I've heard more bad than good about the 6 liter, only know one guy who likes it and has been problem free. Much easier to find a used one on a lot from someone who was tired of fixing it.
I agree with the cliche / jab that a dodge is a bad way to get a good Cummins engine, but thats who uses them. I just test drove a Ram the other day. Not impressed. It reminded me of the story of the Mig that landed in Florida and all the AF folks making fun of how rudimentary it was, but there wasn't any punchline to the Ram.
I don't know about the Durys. AFAIK, they're winning the mileage battle amongst the big 3, but you can debate that all day long with who is doing what with the truck, and weight, miles driven, setup (like wheelbase) blah. Some are doing better than 20 there. But I know ahead of time repairs aren't cheap, but I say pish posh. Its a diesel. No repair will be. Ever.
I just signed on a Dury yesterday. I hope I like it as much as I liked my 7.3. Beyond that, its a big world of opinion.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Been driving nuthin but Ford & Dodge Diesels for the last ten years.
First was a normally aspirated 92 Ford with the 7.3L They only made that combo for a short while for a good reason. That motor died at 70K. The later 7.3Powerstrokes were good motors, but the auto trannys in those died regularly. Go with a 5spd if you get a powerchoke.
I purchased an '01 Dodge 24v cummins brand new, put 60K miles on it in 2yrs. Replaced injector pump twice, front track bar 3 times. (Under warranty). Sold it due to hard times.
Replaced it with a 99 F-250 superduty, 7.3L 6spd with 60k on odo. Owned it for 20k miles, 12 months, in which time I spent nearly 12K on repairs to clutch, ball joints, brakes and a host of others. Woulda been better off keeping the 01 Dodge.
Now I roll an 02 Dodge 2500 6spd. Purchased at 30k, now has 93k. Replaced track bar once, both fuel pumps twice. That was under warranty. The 24v dodges eat fuel pumps due to poor design. The 12v cummins are near bulletproof. Had a couple of em in past with well over 250k mi. It was the trucks that died on those. All of the second gen (94-02) cummins dodges eat up track bars. Now that the warranty is over, I will go aftermarket on those items when they fail.
Don't know about the 3rd and 4th gen Dodges, or the chebbys. My truck is paid for, pulls my trailer every day with great fuel economy, and looks the part of a professional contractor.
It is noisy, stinky, and not a money saver in terms of fuel costs. It just pulls great in the hills.
Go to turbodieselregister.com for more info on Dodges, and they have links to the main chevy and ford diesel pages.
Just don't buy a diesel expecting to be money ahead in the fuel and maintenance arena.
I've got an 01 f250 with the 7.3 powerstroke. The truck just rolled over 100k and I've never had any problems with the motor, other than the cost to have it serviced. I swear I've never spent less than 100 bucks on it. I have replaced just about everything in the front end in the past 20k (ball joints, hubs, shocks, brakes coming soon, etc.....), but somewhat expected at 100k just hoped they wouldn't all come at the same time.
I've got an 03 duramax with 140,000 miles no problems yet. whats supposed to make them a loser?