which way does a hinge go on a door, three holes on jamb and two on door or vice versa.
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Replies
I believe it is 3 loops on the jamb.
I'll anxiously await the reply with the "correct" way according to force and leverage.
Until then, I'll do what I usually do and not really care one way or the other.
I would think the acorn woodworks guy (doorbuilder) would be a good source of information.
and i'm assuming you are talking about the barrells when you mention "holes".
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Does it really matter?
The pins go in from the top and whatever turns out to be the top when they come out of the box that's how they go on the door.
There is a correct position for them. At least I was taught that there was.
Too bad that was almost 100 years ago and I forgot the lesson.[email protected]
I'm glad someone "knew".
The funny thing is, after this thread is over and a short time passes, I'll still not know.
Lets make this a lottery of sorts-I'm going with more barrels on the door.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin,
A few years back I hung a house full of doors that Acorn Woodworks built. It was up to me to place the hinges on the doors, and I did it with three knuckles on the jamb. I always do it that way, cause I think it's purtier that way.
I like the logic Gene put to solution, never thought of it that way before.
Mitch
Mitch. beats the heck out of me. I have no idea if there's a proper way other than personal preference or indifference. Gene's add on to the lengthy overthinking of the question might make sense with points of contact. However, the force on the door and jamb isn't straight down when it's not supported on the outboard end.
?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Which ever way the pins don't fall out?
edit: on my prehungs..3 on the door.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Edited 2/18/2008 7:58 pm ET by Sphere
I've always done it the way they came out of the box.
I couldn't have answered the question any better. :)
Edited 2/19/2008 1:29 am ET by TomC
Depends.
Is it a right hand or a left hand door?
<g>
I wondered about that some time ago, When I replaced a house full of doors a while ago, I took notice of how the hinges were installed (I remove the prehung door and attach the jambs using spreaders.) Lo and behold, from the factory, it was about 50-50. These were Jeld-Wens, so that's not a definitive answer, however.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
You're talking about the barrels, correct? The part of the hinge where the two leafs connect, via the pin.
Hinges typically.....at least Stanley, the brand I most often use.....have one flat leaf, and another that has a slight bend to it where the butt meets the barrel.
I always mount the flat leaf at the jamb, and the bent leaf to the door.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Thats not "bent" it's SWAGED.
So there. (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I think I would do the opposite. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Why does that not surprise me? ;0)...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
I always mount an in-bent leaf on the jamb; can give a little more clearance between the barrel and door casing.
Forrest
I install the hinges the way they come from the lumberyard..on the prehung door. If I'm hanging my own, pin side upThen I pray that when the painters are done I still have all the hinges, no screws have been replaced with drywall screws and less then half the screws are stripped or cammed out
Barry E-Remodeler
That's what makes sense to me Forrest. It might not make a difference though. I'm going to have to go study one. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I always put the side with three knuckles on the door. The reason is that I can support the hinge side (with my hand under the projecting knuckle) when I set the door with one leaf of the hinge into the leaf attached to the jamb. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I'm with you, lots easier to hang the door inserting the 2 ears into the slots to me.
I'm with you on that one. The three sleeve part of the hinge on the door to make it easier to install it using the bottom sleeve as suppor.Theoretically there may be a slight mechanical advantage to having the three sleeve on the jamb, especially at the top, but not worth it for the ease of installing.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Here's another vote for the way you do it. Makes it sooo much easier to put the door on.
Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
One more vote for the way that doesn't pinch your fingers when re-installing, three knuckles on the door.
Unless they're fancy hinges and have a cap screwed on the bottom of the hinge, then it's whatever way the pin won't fall out.
I used to not care, but then Mr T set me straight... three barrels on the door= no more pinched fingers... d'oh! Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
so how do you keep the pin from falling out when the hinge is upside down?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
so how do you keep the pin from falling out when the hinge is upside down?
You're kidding, right? Don't you know that superglue works just fine?
This is such an amusing thread. A lot of great information here, sort of like all of the inquiries into Princess Diana's death.
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
"A lot of great information here, sort of like all of the inquiries into Princess Diana's deat"Tsk, tsk...there you go again. We don't all hang doors for a living Gene, so for many, this is new information. Why are you reading and posting in this thread if the information aggravates you so much? Go start a osb vs plywood thread! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, I am probably as bored as many of us here. Sorry. Even Pif must be a wreck, flipping hinges upside down and having the pins fall out!
Can't ski this week, 'cause my pass blacks out holiday weeks, and I'm between cab jobs, so there is nothing to do but talk hinges.
Here's a question for you exterior door hinge experts. What two alternative hinge design features help dissuade burglars from easily breaking into homes with exterior doors that swing out, and not in?
Here's another one. Why do door shops prefer radius hinges with 5/8R corners, versus those with 1/4R corners.
Didja go see any candidates on the stump? Habla espanol?
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
One is non removable pin butt hinges -- set screw assures not being able to pull the pins
Fixed pin, either riveted style or set screw style
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
See Gene...there are intelligent and interesting aspects to this mundane topic. No, I didn't try to go to the debates. I gave it a couple moments thoughts and then remembered that I'd have to find parking, find the door, find out if I needed a ticket....I decided that I'd rather watch from my easy chair and besides, Amreican Idol was on and I couldn't miss that! Gene, it's obvious that many of us have been on this forum much too long and some of these topics are old hat but you have to remember that for some people (lurkers too), they are new and interesting. Instead of posting and sounding like a grump, it's probably better not to open the thread or respond. I don't open "which saw is better" or "is osb or ply better" or "what are those little diamonds for" anymore but I'm sure the posters in those threads are making the same good arguments and posts like we did when we first opened the threads up five years ago. Basically, we have to graciously get out of the way and let the current wave of posters have their say. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
If the hinge is a 5 "knuckle" hinge, with two knuckles of one leaf fitting between the three knuckles of the other . . .
. . . scratch it out with paper and pencil and just look at it and put your mind to work . . .
You'll see, that whichever way the hinge gets rotated, whichever leaf is mounted to the door, that . . .
. . . each hinge is such that the door "bears" and is thus supported by two knuckle faces. Think, "bearing surfaces."
So, you see, it doesn't matter. And you can report that on your next episode of This Old House, . . . "Steve."
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
There is a logic to it. If I recall, it is put the larger number of knuckles on the side subject to the most force in some fashion.
I typically put the larger number of knuckles on the frame.
You are either wasting your time thinking about it, or not really thinking about it at all.
Read my post, above.
Three or two knuckles, door or jamb, it doesn't matter at all.
Same as with a smaller three-knuckle hinge. One bearing surface, either way you flip one of those, versus two for the five-knuckle ones.
Housebuilding and remodeling must have really slowed down to a crawl, if we are up to this many posts on a no-brainer topic such as this.
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
"if we are up to this many posts on a no-brainer topic such as this."Tsk, tsk, aren't we getting a bit snooty Gene? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, I'm sorry if it came off that way.
But is it me, or not? Does this business downturn, and the way it has whacked residential construction, have any effect on just how godawful boring this forum has become, in resorting to threads about which way to mount hinges on a door?
Ever been in a high production door shop, where there are multiple lines, each whacking out over a thousand prehung units per day?
I have been in plenty of them, and the ones with the best work flow use a process whereby the hinge jamb of a door unit, interior or exterior, is mechanically placed in a fixture which holds it, and the door to which it will be mated, while a three-head router fixture whacks out the hinge mortises in both.
While still fixtured thus, the two parts (door and jamb) then move in tandem while mechanical feeders drop assembled hinges in place, and by machine, those hinges are pressed into the mortise, then fastened with autofed screwgun heads.
The only thing that affects whether a door-jamb subassembly (provided the hinges are symmetrical pairs, which is the case for all interior doors, and many exterior doors) gets a hinge set with X knuckles on the door side or jamb side is HANDING.
The best example of how this can all get reversed, or even intermingled on the same door, is in a house in which the painting sub removed all the doors for painting, took off all the hinges, and there they are, in one great big five gallon bucket. When they all get remounted, at finish-up time, which doors get which are anybody's guess.
And still, it doesn't matter.
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
It did come off that way and the reason you might find the posts boring and repetitive is because you've been hanging out here too long. I thought it was a legitimate question and your analysis of the bearing surfaces was logical and added to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your explanation of the manufacturing process is also enlightening. I've never been to a factory and I haven't seen it on the television, so it's all a mystery to me. You didn't elaborate on whether it makes a difference if one hinge is bent and one straight. I haven't looked at a hinge since that was talked about and it will be an interesting thought process for me, even though it's highly doubtful that I'll ever be chiseling (or routing) one out again. For the record, I dump them all in a bucket and install them randomly. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, my discussion and analysis of this hinge thing needs to be qualified further.
The hinge type with this "interchangeablility" feature is the symmetrical hinge with loose pin. Most all interior door sets come this way, with hinge leaves either having radius corners (1/4 or 5/8) or being square.
Symmetrical hinges are used in quite a few exterior door sets, but the use of asymmetrical hinges is quite common also, the one seen most often being the one with punched-through indexing tabs on the door leaf.
And you are right about my spending too much time here lately. My season ski pass has a nine-day blackout period during this vacation week, and we're between cab jobs right now (but the next ships today,) so I am whiling away some hours in front of this tube.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Edited 2/20/2008 8:37 am ET by Gene_Davis
Gene, I've hung a lot of new doors in old jambs, and old doors in new jambs, and old doors in old jambs...oh, and some new doors in new jambs...
Not everything comes from a factory, so it is a relevant question.
So why so many pre-hungs with wonky screws that don't seat in the hinge countersinks? I go through a lot of natural wooden golf tees... and not just on the course. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Why aren't the screws centered? Because they are driven by humans, not machines, in the door sets you get. And it is just eyeballs, that get used. No vix bits. No predrilling.
Carolina Builders in Raleigh, AFAIK, never mechanized the screw-on-the-hinge part of the operation. A lot of smaller shops are the same.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Why are the countersinks for #9 screws and #9 screws so hard to locate readily?
I'm hanging some casement windows with 70 dollar a pr. Baldwin 3" lifetime finish..they supplied 3/4" screws and the window weigh in about 40lbs each ( I am guessing) and I have mu doubts about that screw length..I'd LIKE to see 1 3/4 " But have yet to ascertain if the screws they sent are indeeed the same lifetime finish and if I'd have issues replacing them with someting else.
Seems to me a #10 is more easily had from local DIY centers, vs a #9. And re-countersinking should not have to be done IMO.
Your take on this?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I don't even look like Gene, but... Fastenal has #9 screws, up to 2 1/2"... I've only seen chrome tho.I find # 8 works in some 10s in others.How heavy are the sashes? 3/4" screws are probably holding up several million doors. We set a longer deck mate screw behind the hinge if we can't find a match. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
I am thinking Lowes has long hinge replacement screws. Seems I saw some there last time I picked up some other hardware. Brass and oiled bronzed finish .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I need to contact Baldwin first I think. These are some $$$ hinges and I'd hate to use the wrong screws without the same finish.
This is a thorough renovation and a persnickity customer, everything has to be the best and he'll pay for it, but is pretty damm demanding. Almost too demanding.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
The sash are fairly heavy for the hinges , just my gut feeling. Maybe 40lbs-50lbs. Yeah, there are lot of doors heavier, I guess I am gun shy due to enormous amount of time I have in them completely re-building and reglazing them.
I've also plugged the previous hinge screw holes ( prev. hinges were same size, but steel) and am fixing to hang them, but 30' up in the air with a 3'x5' window hanging on two hinges, just has me a litttle concerned that the screws are now the weakest link.
Probably just paranoid, but was looking for a "Ahh, don't worry, it'll be fine" answer or a "Holy Moly! No, you need #10 x 16" Kryptonite lags with torx heads and they need to be drilled with a stupor duper tapered step bit from wwww.blankity blank"
You know that kind of feeling..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
That sounds right. Dyke is big here (read cheap), they couldn't screw anything straight if they were paying for it.Just got a house of Jeld-Wens, ok doors, but the screws seat.Funny thing, tho... the barrels on the hinges don't line up, leaf to leaf. Hinge pins are too small in diameter. Extremely cheap chinese work. Can't find a pin to straighten them, got to replace them all... ouch. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Gene
I opened this thread up the other day and thought, oh no, not that again! Came back when I saw how many posts - this question has came up several times and the answer still remains the same - it dont matter!
Not worth the time wasted over thinking it
Doug
I'm not sure but I think you should put the pin in from the top no matter what the maintenance manual says. :<}