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Hello All:
I thought I’d get some chuckles out of this subject as I know we have all been there at one time or another. I’m sure there are some good stories out there….LOL. I’ve heard some good ones in my time. I recall one that goes like this…A flooring installer who was only scheduled to do a master bathroom in vinyl wasn’t allowed through the front door by this homeowner. He had to climb a ladder to the bathroom to do his work.
Or how about those homeowners that prohibit you from using the toliet and you have to drive to the nearest 7-11. I was busted once for using one and this place was torn out. Least I flushed…must’ve been the beans? A true remodel…but no porta john.
How about those folks that marvel at your work and don’t pay for three months. And those that nit pick at everything and almost get the magnifying glass out, or ones that LOVE to watch? Or how about those folks that expect you to put in an eight hour day…I don’t for the most part but at least I make a point to be on the site before others.
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I have the solutions is that u must just raise the prices on those pain in the butt clients.... Don't you hate the ones who say, "Well, all you have to do is.... You should not charge me for that." They are the reasons that remodeling remains unnecessarialy expensive and I renovate and develop my own properties as I feel that I am a fair client.
*I had a home owner tell me:"I think I want this but I may want that. I could change my mind and want it this way. But no matter what, how much exactly will it cost?"I told her "you tell me exactly what you want and I'll tell you exactly what it will cost".She got pissed at me, told me I was a smart ass and never called me back.Go figure.Ed. Williams
*Ed, sounds like you got lucky with that one.We had one who changed the location of the same door 4 times on the same wall entering a basement guest room.Always after we replaced the rock and taped.Vince
*I once went to a house to give an estimate and rang the front doorbell. The "lady" answered the door,I told her what I was there for,and she replied"go to the back door", and then shut the door. Those were the only 5 words she ever spoke to me,cause I got back in my truck andd left.Didn't that "tradesmen rear door only" attitude go out about 60 years ago?By the way this house was a dump,not exactly high society.Stephen
*Oh the aches and pains...they still linger. Latest was the neighbor who stood over my shoulder for four days. He was always pointing out "mistakes". The 2nd day I finally told him--being nice wasn't working--"Does it look like I'm finished?" In one ear and out the other. Comes time for final payment and he waffles cause he wants to wait until the wallpaper & deck are finished. Of course, he was just trying to delay payment so he could scramble to transfer funds. I called his bluff by detailing exactly what he was doing. Still won't talk to me.Had a guy who lorded over my every move and would say, "that looks easy". I took a week off, came back to find he tried to do it, but gave up after two hours. Didn't realize it at the time, but he gave me a compliment.Had a lady who withheld a big payment for three weeks. She did the same thing to the electrician. She said she didn't like our work. Finally, during the umpteenth meeting at her home, she broke down in front of sparky and me and sobbed there was nothing wrong with our work, but that she didn't like the color of the tile she picked out and she was using the electrician as leverage against me. Huh? What do you say to a person like that? Another lady hires me, asks for referrals for a painter, I give her five. Two days after that she calls to say I wont be coming back. She wasn't born yesterday, doesn't know what kind of scam the painter and I are trying to pull. Chalk that one up to Alzheimers.Lady wants me to "renew" her floors. White tile, white grout in the kitchen. Spent a week getting someone elses poor workmanship to look good. Every day she would just marvel at the crud coming off the floor. Last day of the job, the husband walks in wearing muddy, greasy boots. Time for payment and she says she wouldn't of had the work done if she knew it would look like that. Huh? Turns out the husband works for the railroad and doens't take his boots off until he gets upstairs. For the three years they have been in the house, they have never mopped the floor.On a referral, I set the front entry in slate, which means I have to rip up some carpet. Owner says, "have fun, I'm going to Acapulco". He comes back after 5 days. "Sue me", he says, in response to demand for final pymt. He's pissed cause I didn't save his crappy old carpet, figures we're even.Gave a lady a bid to tile her new custom. We do a walk through to show her where the drywall guys are ripping her off. I spent two months of off hours on interior design with her. Framers milked her for an extra $10K. The rains have undermined her new pad. She gets a referral for another tile setter who says he can do the whole job alone in two weeks. She calls me up to find out why my bid is based on $150/hr. I used to be/am still a sucker.
*The first spec house my partner and I built we sold to crooks. The buyers decided to purchase the home about two months before completion. The buyers would go behind my back and talk to subs saying that i said to do certain things.During closing at the title company the women broke down in tears because they were trying to screws us and we said that we wouldnt close. There was a moving van in the driveway of the house. We did close but there was money held in escrow with a list to finish before its release.The door hardware that they ordered came 2 weeks after closing. It was Bouvet and it was like the old time sets with a seperate latch below the knob for the locking part. I asked the owner to pay me for the extra time. He said " I know it is extra but you should throw it in anyway." He wasn't paying for it and he had my escrow money behind him. We finished the escrow list. I asked the owner to call the title company and release the money. He then told me that he didn't like an acces panel that was next to his toilet and that he needed a magazine rack. I built the rack and after hounding them these scum the released the money. The list is very long on how these people abused my partner and I. Now we don't close with an escrow we can't walk away from.
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A guy I used to work with told me that a sure way to get rid of those who liked to watch and nit-pick was to start sweeping and cleaning up. So, the second job I'm on with him, the customer's father, who was ALWAYS there, was watching us like a hawk.(nothing new for him. He knew everything, anyway.) My great idea: start sweeping. Sure enough, he leaves the room! Unfortunately, he came back with his own broom -to show us how it should be done.
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Here's a secret:
Act confident and make a lot of noise. Wear a respirator and hearing and eye protection.
Or, swear a lot.
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Dan:
That's a good one!! If I notice folks that are gonna watch or seem to be over my shoulder I always mention the odor of the flooring adhesives I use before I start. Nine times out of ten they head for the door and don't return until the end of the day.
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About 20 years ago I was working for a builder. The house had been rocked and we were in the process of trim and cabinets. The builder came by and asked for my hammer and proceded to slap a small to medium size hole in the drywall in the entry foyer.
I asked him what the hell he was doing, and his reply was this:
"We are getting to the point in the job where the homeowner will start to nitpick me about a million little things. From now on they will bug me and bug me about fixing this hole in the sheet rock. It will take their attention off everything else from now on. I'll fix the hole, but not till we are almost done."
Ed. Williams
*Ed,did that work? It sounds like a great idea at first but after thinking about it kinda wrong.Vince
*It does work!
*Oh how wonderful! I came how grumbling the other day that the new policy would be, 20% more if you watch, double if you offer suggestions. It is a pain to explain, yes, well, I'm not done yet.
*Vince,I personally have never tried that particular method. We are carpentry subs and not a general conracting company so my dealings with the homeowner are limited to "I think you better ask the builder about that sir"I do from time to time leave off a piece of base or crown or something to keep some hardass builders busy. If he's harping me to add those extra shelves upstairs, he's not bugging me to hurry up and finish the library. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I would never hold up the job on purpose, but there are little survival tactics that make things easier.Is it right or wrong...I don't know. In the end the house is done and everyone is happy.Ed. Williams
*Vince,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Love it Ed. Good idea!!
*Oh Yeah-Us contractors aren't the only "scam artists" in town. How about all the lawyers and doctors we work for? We just finished a job for an attorney. He and his wife were whining the whole time about how everytime they turn around there's an extra. I told them the way to solve that is to stop adding and changing things. They said they were paying alot of money to have us do their job and we should be willing to throw some extra work in for free. I asked him if he used that kind of logic when he and his wife went out to dinner at a nice restaurant-or any restaurant for that matter. He said-huh? I said huh. One nit-picky thing after another with these people. We sucked it up and did every last little thing and you know what? We're STILL waiting for our final payment-2 months later. Think we'll ever see it? Not! That's ok though- I'll just swing by their house every few months or so at night and throw some roofing nails into their driveway. They'll be up to about a thousand bucks in flat tires soon enough. We had a doctor years ago who loved This Old House-so much so that he was able to tell US how we should be doing things. He insisted on showing me the proper way of doing things. He enjoyed pointing bad workmanship out to me being performed by us-such as window stops not lining up at the joints by 1/16". A pedestal lav that was installed by our plumber that was out of level by 1/8" according to his torpedoe level. He enjoyed taking his time on decisions that affected our schedule. He liked to waste about 1/2 hour of my time every morning discuusing micro-details about the day's activities. Then he used to page me 3 times a day to ask me more questions and to change things that we were in the middle of doing. He was a real pissa. Of course I'm not saying that every lawywer and doctor is jerk, but we all learn alot in this industry. We should not allow ourselves to work for free or cheaply-other people do not. We should not be afraid in being persistent in asking for our payments-we deserve this money if we've done a good job. We should not allow P I A clients to affect how we talk to our wives and children. Leave these jerks on your desk at night before you come home. Alot of us take pride in what we do and we strive to be among the best in our trade. We look for ways to become more efficient at what we do and hope that in the end the client will come to us and say, " Great job! How much do I owe you-let me write the check now" Of course we're going to ge mad if we get ripped off-especially by people who know they had no intention of paying us from the start.
*Ed,It does sound real good and since Joe says it works every time,and since I spent another 4hrs with a certain customer.Who looks like she's going to be the perfect candidate for the hole in wall the scam.I think I'll go for it. Andrew,about two years ago I went with a friend of mine to give one of his customers an estimate.When he gave him the paper work the customer said "Will the price change if I help".My friend said yes and took the papers back and wrote +$400. The guy went nuts! My friend explained that he wasn't running a school but if he was willing to pay he was willing to teach.Vince
*When i made up a first business card i put "homeowner helpers welcome" based on a really positive experience with a woman who wasn't the least bit hesitant to shovel concrete -- and i was being paid by the hour anyway. I quickly deleted that after reading what people had to say here! New rule is: 20% extra if you watch, double if you offer suggestions.It's different if the person will complete a specific task for you, like demo or dig postholes. I don't love digging postholes in clay, personally....
*That man was an effing genius. A true masterpiece of misdirection. As much as I hate the idea of messing up finished work, I may use that trick meself. Buyers remorse seems to set in concurrent to that upcoming final payment. the customer wants to be sure that they got good value even though they probably bid it out six ways from sunday and selected you because you were the best man for the job. I have lots of good stories to tell, but I'm enjoying reading these posts so much that I think I'll just continue on.
*Johnny,After twenty years my bullshitometer is finely tuned. I have the luxury of walking away from the potential clients that I don't get a "warm fuzzy" from. Better to lose the job that way then lose your shirt from not getting paid.I consider myself and my brother contractors of quality "Professionals". Just like the Drs. and Atts.we only have two things to build on in this profession.1. Our good name and reputation.2. Billable hours.Ask the attorney when was the last time he didn't bill for hours worked. And BTW I don't recommend the roofers in the driveway thing. Put a workmans lien on his house and let it go. When he wants to sell he'll scramble to pay you quick.Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. I have to pay $200.00 at the renewal of my license to feed a fund that reimburses homeowners that were ripped off by bad contractors. Why, why, why? If the homeowner is shopping for a contractor on price alone, and then doesn't check references, and then doesn't check with consumer affairs, and the BBB, and gets ripped off. why am I subsidizing that. And where is the fund for contractors that are waiting forever for final payment. How about an extra buck added to every tax bill in the county for us to dip into when we get beat. I have only been beat for $125.00 in twenty years, thats because I leave 'em smiling, but I still remember that day putting up repair slates in July, and skipping lunches the next week.Any thoughts on this from anyone else?
*Anyone else find it easier to get your money out of people you know are on a tight budget and probably saved up for quite awhile to have their work done ? I dont know how many times these type folks have asked me " You need any money ? just let me know when you do . " Cant remember that happening much with the high roller types .
*...that is consistant with my experiences Chuck. It's the folks in similar social standing to us that are the best to deal with. I have been very lucky through the years, but whenever there is even the hint of a problem with money, even "slow to pay types", it's folks with some money. You can pretty much tell how someone is going to treat you at the first meeting. Do they listen? Do they give you time to ponder their questions? When you look them in the eye, do you like what you see? Do they seem respectfull? Are they more focused on HOW the job is done, or HOW MUCH it will cost? These are my barometers. And like Dan Morrison said a couple weeks ago, your gut usually won't lie. - jb
*I agree with Chuck and Jim, the "working class" areas seem to be the most polite,courtious and friendly customers of the bunch. They most always pay in cash, the bathroom is not off limits and the fridge is full of refreshments for you to partake. It seems that they realize how hard we work for a living---because they do too! I too find the "upper crust" to be quite tight and to want more things thrown in "because you are already here". If you are a reputable contractor and are unsure of a possible customer walk away take a few days off and hammer away at the fish!
*absolutely. There are some folks with money who are top shelf; I've met some, and they have treated me right. But the ones who are putting up hard earned money, and know where it comes from, and that it don't come easy, in my experience never welch. Ditto on the respect, refreshments, plus sometimes some truly useful sweat equity. I worked for a guy in these parts for a little while; one of the things he told me was his clientele was largely Newfoundlanders (in Canada these good folks are the butt of many, many stupid jokes cause they aren't known for disposable income). When they walked in to order a kitchen, chances are they have every penny in their back pocket, and pay up when it's due. He won't even talk to contractors.
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Ever meet the guy or woman who doesn't mind the detail but the spouse who is at work, demands that it be fixed, immediatly and for free.
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I gotta agree with Chuck. Been working for an atty. on and off for the last year. He and his wife moved into a decade old 5000 sf almost a trophy, but not quite, house. Labor and material jobs, not too well defined, so lots of changes and lots of materials. Takes the Esq. a week and a half to get back to me with a check for materials that I have out. The kicker is that I had worked for his father before him, a great guy, regular working stiff. Walked to work at GE (when we still had them here). It was rare for two days to go by and not have him or the wife ask "Do you need any money?" Can't figure that one out.
kevin
*I used to have to handle Federal audits yearly. If you acknowlege that the auditor wants to do a good job, and that he percieves his job as finding something wrong. It will be easier on everybody if you give him something easy to find, and easy for you to fix. He found something and made you fix it.Everybody did their job.JonC
*Sounds like the architectural review meeting I sat in on a week ago for a permit in a historic district. there wasn't anything particularly wrong about the design (mine), so they came up with twelve different conflicting suggestions for changes, mostly bad. Next time I'll propose to paint it hot pink and save everyone some time.
*Dave, only because they "work for their money"... "unlike you contractors, who are leaches on the carcass of society."Feel better now?Where'd I leave my Chipper?
*Andrew, give them more, don't be subtle. Vinyl windows, $99 Steel Slab door, $10 Home Cheapo Italianate coach lights...
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Hello All:
I thought I'd get some chuckles out of this subject as I know we have all been there at one time or another. I'm sure there are some good stories out there....LOL. I've heard some good ones in my time. I recall one that goes like this...A flooring installer who was only scheduled to do a master bathroom in vinyl wasn't allowed through the front door by this homeowner. He had to climb a ladder to the bathroom to do his work.
Or how about those homeowners that prohibit you from using the toliet and you have to drive to the nearest 7-11. I was busted once for using one and this place was torn out. Least I flushed...must've been the beans? A true remodel...but no porta john.
How about those folks that marvel at your work and don't pay for three months. And those that nit pick at everything and almost get the magnifying glass out, or ones that LOVE to watch? Or how about those folks that expect you to put in an eight hour day...I don't for the most part but at least I make a point to be on the site before others.