Whole house surge protection – Worth it?
rasher
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
I’m handy enough that I can install a whole-house surge protector on my own, and it’d end up costing $200 or so for the equipment. Utility company wants $10 a month (forever) for the same thing.
Anyone have WH surge protection, and do you think its worth it? My insurance company will not offer a discount on my premium…
Replies
It's your call.
Just understand what you're trying to accomplish. You can't get the right answer if you ask the wrong question.
The whole house surge suppressors are what you rely upon if there are fluctuations in the power supplied by the power company. These can be caused by everything from old. degenerating infrastructure to near misses of lightning strikes.
However, many times the surge is caused by something in the home ... and the whole house unit is useless for those surges. For that, you need protection at the appliance.
I always assumed that surges mostly came from lightening strikes and such. We've never had a problem with surges in the past, but it wouldn't take too much electronic damage to make the first cost worth it.
I wonder if it'd improve resale value at all...
"However, many times the surge is caused by something in the home ... and the whole house unit is useless for those surges. For that, you need protection at the appliance."Not really.Little in the way of home appliances has enough energy to cause a significant surge. Most that I am thinking of, such as an AC, would be on their own circuit anyway.Now NOISE is a different issue.BTW, do you know how they are physically installed in the meter box? Are they built into the meter base? Do they use some kind of double lugging?Here we have forced pressure main sewer system that was retro fitted to replace a defective gravity feed system. The city worked with the POCO to tap off directly at the meter. And they have a separate breaker mounted in the control box or if that is not near the meter a separate box for the CB.At the time that this was done the city WAS NOT the AHJ. That was done by the homeowners association. And much of the work was not right. The conduit often surfaces or only a couple of inches deept..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You forget the most destructive cause ... a loose neutral connection on a shared neutral connection. This can be any neutral connection from the Poco transformer to the point where the circuits separate.
Nothing (other than a full power conditioning setup) can protect you from an open neutral. It's not enough voltage to trip a surge protector, and would burn out the protector without clearing the hazard if the protector did trip.Surge protectors are intended to protect against brief transients of several hundred volts, caused either by lightning or (very rarely) by motors being switched off.It so happens that a whole-house protector can protect (to a degree) against surges that enter the system through points other than the service entrance, though point-of-use protectors are better for such surges. In general a whole-house unit will be slower acting than a point-of-use unit, but able to handle a larger surge. So the two work in a complementary fashion.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
I have seen quite a few instances where point-of use electronics ... be they surge suppressing outlet strips, GFI's, or other items ... have 'sacrificed' themselves, and in the process protected more expensive appliances from the higher voltages that result from an open / intermittent neutral. That's what it comes down to: do want to fry a $5 surge suppressor, or an $800 stereo? That's my point: while a 'whole house' system has it's uses, it is not a replacement for point-of-use protection. As for the causes of the bad neutral, I've seen everything from a bad splice at the PoCo transformer, to a cracked neutral lug at the main service disconnect, to a loose wire in a crowded junction box.
Most surge protectors aren't going to trigger at under 200V, and an open neutral can't produce more than 240V. When surge strips do trigger they'll short and blow the internal fuse if the transient lasts longer than a few milliseconds. Generally the internal fuse will blow before the circuit breaker does.Open neutral conditions are quite rare, yet you've seen "quite a few" where surge strips have mysteriously "protected expensive appliances". You must be the Jessica Fletcher of open neutrals.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
Well, I can't help it if history is in conflict with theory. Trip? Fuse? Nonsense ... the electronics die. Permanently. Usually by letting the smoke out. As for the voltage level ... well, open the neutral, and exceeding 200 is quite easy; it all depends on the resistance of the load on the other 'leg.' Several? I have no idea who Jessica is, but folks call me when things don't work. That's my business. Usually after lots of appliances have died. Other times, you see strange things ... like the shop whose lights got brighter, and 'non-functioning' lights came on, when the table saw operated. Oddly enough, these problems tend to arise when "trade practices" are dispensed with, and replaced by an 'it works, don't it' mentality. "Risk management" is what you call one's approach to the challenges in life. Can things happen? Certainly. So, what's your next move? That's not so easy to answer. The fact remains that I've only encountered one high voltage transient situation that was on the PoCo side of the meter. Add to that one that was at the main disconnect. Every other one was on the customers' premises .... including one that I inadvertently caused when opening a neutral that was (unknown to me) shared with other circuits. That 'oops' cost me $600 to fix. Our OP wants to know id 'whole house' surge protection is worth it. I can't answer that question .... but I can alert him to the very real situations I've seen, that would not be addressed by the 'whole house' gizmo.
You must be the Jessica Fletcher of open neutrals.
I have nothing to add, except to say that was one of the funniest lines I've seen here. Thanks for the Saturday laugh.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Whole house surge units come in several flavors, from a dummy double-pole breaker to a separate box you attach to the breaker panel to a unit that fits behind the meter.
We have two, one behind-the-meter unit that I think is an old gas discharge unit and another dummy breaker unit. Don't know if they work but we've had no apparent lightning-caused damage via the power lines since the first unit was installed ca 20 years ago. Have three times had damage come in via phone line or cable, though. (Finally put the cable on its own surge and no trouble since.)
Note that the risetime of whole house units is usually poorer than point-of-use units, so you still benefit from point-of-use units on expensive equipment.
My house has been hit 4 times. The first was a TV aerial. I had it grounded, fried the aerial no issues in the house. The next time lighting hit the transformer on the pole that feeds the house. The wire ran near a tree next to the house that took most of the damage, but blew out some plugs and a TV. Next time lighting hit neat my shed which has a grounding rod to the subpanel in there. The shock blew out all GFI plugs in the shed and fed back to the house and blew the breaker-disconnect to the shed off the wall. The last one hit my vent pipe in the roof (older house copper vent pipe) and fed through the metal plumbing which has the main panel ground connected to it. Did not hurt the plumbing. Blew out all telephones, some plugs,the intercom system, the security system, computer, and the controls to some powered skylights. I had installed thermax on the backside of my wood garage doors the lighting fed down the foil and blew a hole in the garage floor about the size of a fist. Also a 2" hole in the roof. After $5000.00 later and a lot of hassles I installed lighting rods on the roof and had the utility install a surge protector. The $10.00 fee also covers my insurance deductible if struck again. To say the least I turn everything off in all electrical storms.
I just got a flyer from MoPub. Then only want %5.95. Don't remember if they offered "insurance" or not.
First how exposed or you? At the top of a hill and the highest object by 50 ft for anything within a 100 ft?
Or down in a valley with everything a 50 ft higher than you?
But as Jay said lightning can be very unpredictable.
I installed one hanging off the panel manybe 10 years ago. Never had any problems afterwards or BEFORE.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
As has been pointed out, best practice is to use both panel and point of use surge suppressors. Even then, it's not a failsafe combination. We've suffered two direct or nearly-direct strikes. In both cases, the proximity of the strike induced current in the circuits downstream of the panel, frying various electronic devices despite the presence of panel suppressors. In my experience, the $10 point-of-use surge suppressors aren't capable of arresting the voltage of a direct strike.
"In my experience, the $10 point-of-use surge suppressors aren't capable of arresting the voltage of a direct strike."Seems surprising. Do you think the point of use suppressors are just to primative to work as advertised? I haven't taken on apart, so I have no idea how they implement current/voltage overload protection-and I suppose there are variations....
"In my experience, the $10 point-of-use surge suppressors aren't capable of arresting the voltage of a direct strike. "Exactly. Nothing will protect sensitive equipment from a direct lightning strike. The currents and induced voltages are too high for normal wiring and insulation to handle, and even an expensive "whole house" surge suppressor will likely fail to stop the damage. Physically disconnecting (unplug it) the device is probably the best bet in a situation where a direct strike might occur.