Why do you do what you are doing? ie. what are the rewards you get from your chosen profession?
The more I learn, the richer I become, if I ever stop learning life here will no longer be worth living.
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Replies
I do it to make money so I can buy tools.
I do it to make money so I can buy food. I'm lucky it's fun, too.
I do it because the work feeds my soul the money feeds my body the clients torment my mind and the subs irritate my bowels.
Edited 11/8/2004 2:18 pm ET by JAGWAH
it keeps my feet on the earth.
I think I get a personal satisfaction for a job well done(usually), to be able to look at your work at the end of the day.I'm a little pleased with myself whenever I can complete work that is above the current standard.It has not been as financially successful as I would like,but I'm working on some changes.I think that people who cannot enjoy their work will not be happy no matter how much money they make.
So I can put the kids on the bus, go to all the events they are in, take them to practice and generally work my own hours. Work is just work, it's carpentry, with some other trades thrown in occasionally, it pays well, I can stand back and say "I built that" but I'm not foolish enough to think it matters in the grand scheme of things.....that and I've seen houses and some very nice finish work I've done hacked to pieces within a few years with a sawsall....all in the name of remodeling.
Oh yeah, I do it for the women, chicks dig big toolbelts.
You forgot having a personal relationship with the BI. <G>
I enjoy doing the trades more than inspecting them. I enjoyed the free time also if I needed it . I dont have it now . Im lucky to still be in the trades however.
Tim Mooney
I love this question.
I consider myself very lucky in life. I've got a pretty strange past and at 31 years old, I've been "reborn" more times than most will in their entire lives. Some of my past is very good and other parts are very very bad. But it's mine and I wouldn't change a bit of it. But that's all another story that a few of you have already heard. What I'm trying to get at is that I came into construction by default. Dropped out of college, did my time in the Marines, tried a bunch of different things.... ended up working construction. Thank God.
I truly love what I do. Not just construction, but framing specifically. I love everything about it. I love that I'm outside experiencing the weather all year round. The gorgeous sunny autumn days, the sweltering humid summers, and the blowing snow of January and the refreshment that the first spring day brings. I get it all. I love that I get to work with my hands. The satisfaction I get from taking a pile of wood and a few good tools and creating a home for someone out of it is immeasurable. I also love the "POW" effect we get with framing. You bend over and start knocking together walls or gables and then you start raising 'em all and it's just like BLAMO.... instant house. Love that part.
I love the fact that I get to work with very down to earth people, for the most part. People like me who know the satisfaction of a good hard day's work. Guys that appreciate what it means to "gel" as a crew and begin to work as one instead of four individual carpenters. I love the BSing and the comraderie that comes with a good crew. I also like the fact that we are among the lucky people who work hard enough during the day that we're too tired to be consumed by the petty problems that others let consume them at night.
I love framing. I love the tools. I love the clothes. I love my truck and trailer. I love the way that my hands look at the end of a hard day.... dirty, maybe a little bloody, with callouses on one side and wrinkly weathering on the other. I love seeing a bunch of guys with my name on the back of their shirts.... not an ego thing, just a reminder of how far I've come after starting out (again) in a shelter with a trash bag full of dirty clothes and an alarm clock.
I love the fact that computers will probably never be able to do what I do... at least not in my lifetime. I love the fact that my job will probably never be "outsourced" to India. I love the fact that I build HOMES and not just houses.
There's just something very, very rewarding about being able to see the fruits of your labor right before your eyes. And something even more rewarding about having someone else really appreciate what you do.
I'm not a "slam it up and move on" type of framer. I take immense pride in the homes I build. I've worked for the other type before, and knew that there had to be a market for a framer who cared about quality as much as the bottom line. I'm very pleased that I've been able to seek out that market and have the beginnings of a very good business doing what I love to do for people who see this business the same way that I do.
My work just makes me feel grateful....and that can go an awful long way in life.
Ditto!
There's another star on your homework paper.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Why thank you sir!
Good for you Diesel, you've got a great attitude. Too many people just go off to work begrudgingly because they have to. Those are the same folks who think of quality as a joke and will never succeed at anything more than it takes to wake up the next morning.
I like the callouses too. My wife says I should put moisturiser on them. I tell her I work hard at getting them and the thicker they get the less need for gloves
and she says, "Yes Dear, but they sure snag the nylons. See my legs run..."
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I echo your reply DieselPig.For along time I heard,why not get a real job.Looking back I'm glad I stuck it out. I'm just not a suit/tie,climb the corporate ladder,sit in a cubicle guy.Uk!I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.
and she says, "Yes Dear, but they sure snag the nylons. See my legs run..."
"...so you either wear your gloves when you go to work or would you rather wear them when you come home at night?"
Diesel
Your post is positively poetic. No one could say it better. It almost brought tears to my eyes last night when I read it.
Thanks fingers, but I'm still young and am not jaded yet. With some hard work, a little luck with the market hanging tough, and a few "tuition payments" along the way, maybe I won't have to be jaded by this business.
Dieselpig you seem to have a real JOY for what you do.
JOY comes from a deep gratitude for being able to do what you are doing.
From your post it's clear the road to where you are now was rough and filled with "change orders".
How many others can say the same,to strugle through years of toil and then find true JOY in what they are doing?
This thread could go like"Think I'll Pack It In",on and on and on.....
Why would someone be a Cop?
Why would someone work at a meat packing plant for 30yrs?
What motivates the garbageman to get up in the morning?
???Why do We do what we do???
"If all the garbagemen and preachers stoped working,which would we miss most?Never look down on a persons job,thank them for what they are doing."
My Grand Pa D.T.
I've been a Union Carpenter for over 20yrs.
Love working with wood(getting used to steel now and again),like the people and the fellowship of the job.Love building things that others enjoy. A true JOY!(Winters kind of hurt nowdays)
I love doing the work with my hands and solving problems with my head.
I love the fact that there is a lot of variety in my month.
I love that I get to buy tools.
I love the opportunities to leave happy, satisfied customers behind me.
Sometimes I think that if I loved it all a bit less, I would make more money!!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
I couldn't make a decent living playing my guitar, and I don't know how to do anything else. It does provide an oulet for my creative spirit, though.
I hate the business side of it.
That's a very scary question right now.
60 week for 40 hours pay, and not rel hope for a raise or a future . . . seems to meet the definition of insanity: doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
Except for the good I do. And the not knowing how to do a job only half-donkeied.
Because, maybe, just maybe, there is some reason, some method to this madness, and only time will tell.
Thats a very good question Jim.
I got "stuck" with carpentry because my high school friend's dad ran a contracting business. I jumped on when I left the steel beam supply business. I'm the kinda guy that likes to accomplish a lot no matter what the task. If I was a burger flipper, I'd try to be the most efficient...that's my nature.
After I got started, I developed a love for framing. I loved the competitiveness, camradire (spellcheck please!), and the sense of accomplishment when I was able to get something standing. I still love all those things, but hate the business of framing...which isn't really a business anymore.
I still love the competitiveness. Put another crew in the neighborhood and all of a sudden my interest peaks. I not only want to get it done faster, but I want it better in every detail.
I also love being able to do things that only a small percentage of the population would be willing to do....hoisting heavy loads/walls. Doing the balancing act....braving the inclement weather. I used to love the physical nature of the beast...especially when we hand pounded everything and humped everything by hand.
Theres a lot to love...too bad the money sucks!
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Blue....I know you're newly back from hiatus, so I'll fill in some blanks for you.
See the money sucks because....as you clearly stated(okay I'll paraphrase) "men were men, and you could accomplish things, without hassle" That was the wild west days, and I must tell you ol'timer, those times are gone. You're a dinosuar, you just haven't been told you're extinct. I'll enlighten you.... You're extinct. So is the good money.
See these days you can't work like you once did. I'll run it down for you, and I'll speak loudly so you can hear.
OSHA.....no walking plates, no sheathing roofs without harness, no solid planks(laminated only) hardhats, safety glasses, no tennis shoes, no saws without guards, no extension cords without GFCI, everyone on site must wear 3 layers of bubble wrap, and kevlar suits, safety nets everywhere....the key is to live long and prosper.....no matter how much it costs. Life is and endurance race, so be healthy at all cost.
Trusses are the name of the game. Everything under them is only fluff to keep them up. They are the "roof over the head". DON'T MAKE THEM YOURSELF....that will only lead to herds of building inspectors, truss guys and lawyers beating a path to your door to red tag you, and sue you for being a maverick renegade non-conformist who can't get with the program. The building will surely fall, explode or burn from your gross neglegence, and general lack of respect for the engineering prowess of the superior ways of today.
Lawyers outnumber you.....they want everything you have....keep this in mind at all times. They are followed by the building inspector. They are out to save the universe, one site at a time.
I'm wondering how we've all survived so long, we should have never made it this far, it's simply amazing.
How did those caves make it past the building department? Who stamped those teepee prints, I mean you have heavy logs tied together, teetering perilously over sleeping babies for gods sake. And have you ever seen some of those 200 year old houses at Williamsburg....forget about it.
Maybe I'm the dinosaur......cause all of this reeks of the "pussification of the American male".
It all comes down to ......I'm of the opinion of natural selection. Weak survive, strong get locked in the closet and eventually die off for their barbaric ways....hey wait, that ain't right, I may have something crossed here.... no matter....some lawyer will be along to straighten me out.
C'mon Blue, get with the program!
Live long and prosper...uh... I mean live long and ...live long. Keith
Amen Keith!
Live long and starve to death!
I remember the good old days...the OSHA guys wouldn't walk onto a residential site for fear of getting their teeth handed to them. Course all the guys were drunks back then...if I was an Osha guy I would have found a friendlier group too!
Nowadays even the fire marshall sticks his nose into our business. They won't allow a fire bucket! I wonder how many times they'd come out on emergency runs for hypothermia before they'd look the other way when a poor wretch is trying to heat himself up so he won't run the saw up and down his belly? The worst thing about that is that the fire marshall doesn't have the nads to walk up and tell us direct, he threatens the superintendent.
And people wonder why I'm a Libertarian! Hang out there in subzero weather wtihout heat or starve, while the fire marshall lives high on the hog and enjoys a retirement that my guys will never see.
F em all.
blue
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
blue... you and keith sound like a coupla whiners..
OSHA is great.... it saves a lot of lives and a lot of disabling injuries...
if you ain't making enough money , it ain't osha's fault... and it ain't the fire marshall
matter of fact... OSHA has been gutted.. i see a lot of backsliding into the old unsafe practises.. because OSHA is so underfunded they can't put the inspectors in the field..
me... i've been doing this as long as any of you.. we used to make money framing.. we used to make moeny in new construction... it all changed around here in the mid'80's.. when houses became comodities and so much /sf..
when that happened.. i concentrated on remodeling, and how to get my price...
building became rewarding again... and i go to work each day with much the same attitude that brian was describing...i really can't think of anything i'd rather be doing
so , if you like the trades, but you're not making money... change....if regulations are a way of life.. then they are a way of life for your competition too.. either learn how to deal with the regs... or move to someplace where they don't have any...
but i'll give you a clue... i got it from willy sutton... " how come you rob banks?.... cause that's where the money is"....
places with lot's of regulations happen to be the places that have lot's of money..
places with no regulations, have no money..
no money ?... the quality of the projects doesn't exist... with no quality.. this job sucks..
i remember working in a town with no money.... working in a town with money is better.. guess what.. it's the same town..only now there's lot's of money... and lot's of regulations.. deal with it
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 11/8/2004 11:46 pm ET by Mike Smith
What Dieselpig said.
Besides, who the hell wants to work inside all the time? I tried it for a while, didnt last.
Swinging a hammer is what I am sposed to do. If it was easy then all the homeowners would be remodelling their own houses instead of calling me.
The pleasure in doing the 'impossible' and doing it well......................indescribable
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
You done good Mike. Thats where most of our money sits . Right dab in the city limits, but there is a lot more land out side where they arent building near as much. They want all thew city attraction or they wouldnt be here.
Tim Mooney
I guess you could go the high end remodel route......however if money is the ultimate goal, then I think vinyl wndows and vinyl siding is the way to go. Go in, pull some stops and throw in some vinyl windows, head outside, and start covering everything up. Fast, easy, no permits/instectors/OSHA. A couple of ladders, a brake, saw table.
Little old ladies are real appreciative of the new shiny white windows with tilt-in-easy-clean-ease. No peeling paint, will last a lifetime(theirs anyway) Sub out a roof if needed..some gutters, throw in some nice plastic shutters....I'll be rich and the love of the quilting club.
I'll be set! Keith
Keith, I disagree. If you want to stay in construction and also make money, then picking up construction garbage is by far the best business.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Mike, some of us don't want to remodel. I won't do it...I don't like it at all on any level.
And I don't mind Osha saving lives either. I'm a big fan of safe practices. Unfortunatly, the laws are written up in such a way to put the squeeze on the little guy.
And what's up with the firemarshall? Why should he have the right to tell me I can't have a barbecue using wood? He'll allow that same barbecue as long as we use coal. You agree with that too?
And please don't lecture me about dealing with it. I already am. And the money? Well, we all know the business owner gets his.....but what should I tell my guys? Frankly, I've already told them that they should start looking for another trade...it's only going downhill from here and things don't look so good for new construction framers.
I'm dealing with it, but I'm not happy about it. We don't ask for much....but living wages and a little fire in winter is a good start.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Blue Ive been enjoying you being back . Youve been sharing a lot lately and I apreciate it . You have been some good reading now the election is over. <G>
I guess Im not understanding what you mean that the framing money is gone . I guess youll be so good to explain that again.
Before I got sick and I hate typing that , I was moving to commercial only. It was a lot more red tape , goverment , taxes , licensing , osha, etc. But the money was "more than worth it ". A lot more Blue.
I dont feel like preaching to you and Ill try not to, but I think its time for you to change with our age and the times. Your knowledge should be making your living and maybe your carreer needs adjusted. Im thinking about going back to work , but I know I cant carry the load by myself the way I did. . That doesnt mean I cant do better than before. The inspecting job allowed me to draw a check and get on my feet after surgery. Its been great experience and an opportunity to learn . Im thankful , but its not enough money and Im a lot better tradesmen than inspector . I need to move on , but it needs to be done different. Maybe the same thing for you.
Tim Mooney
Tim, I've already made the decision to "move on". We downsized this year....let 21 guys go...we're aiming to get down to two on payroll and use independent contractors.
In 1989 I used to sell rough frames for 16,500 and my costs were approximately 5500, leaving me with roughly 11k for three weeks of labor. Today, those three weeks require us to sell 30k and the return is the same....sometimes much less. The risks are far greater and the houses are incrementally tougher. We shouldn't have to be exposing our selves to higher, steeper roofs for less!
I won't do commercial...it bores me to tears.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Yeah Keith, it's getting tough. Now the rules say you need 3 guys to safely carry a 20 ft extension ladder and it's so high no one is allowed to climb it.
WallyLignum est bonum.
I got a job to pay for my car.
My job was delivering pizzas, so I had to keep my car in good shape to do my job.
For the last 20 years it has been that cycle all along.
(On the shampoo bottle it says: "lather, rinse, repeat", but it doesn't say anything about stopping!)
Norm
That's funny Norm!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
You should consider writing in addition to carpentry as a vocation, dieselpig...very well said...
Wylie
Wylie
Success = Work+ Risk + Luck, in that order. Muriel Seibert
Thanks Wylie...
but, IMHO, the pen may be mightier than the sword.....but the hammer trumps 'em all!!
??why??
??why not??
I knew somone would give a "why not", now waiting for the "because" !!The more I learn, the richer I become, if I ever stop learning life here will no longer be worth living.
I'll answer as soon as you fill out your profile!!
Not like you are desparate for my opinion anyhoo!
Basically I gree with diesel, Beckman and Blue.
But I want to be like Piffin and get to spend all my time posting here while my crew does the dirty work..
:)
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Happy now? LOLThe more I learn, the richer I become, if I ever stop learning life here will no longer be worth living.
because I can.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Jim,
As a remodeler, I enjoy the creative aspect of figuring out how to get something done.
I also generally enjoy the customer contact. I have learned a lot about life from talking with my customers, and getting to know them. Sometimes I think I should write a book of stories I've heard from my customers. Veteren's stories, rags to riches stories, marriage gone bad stories, marriage gone good, struggles that have been overcome, raising children, etc.
Getting to know my customers has created a mental patchwork quilt consisting of snapshots of life experiences.
I have also learned to appriciate and sometimes even enjoy the challenges of the business. When I started out my SCORE counselor said, "You will have higher highs and lower lows than you ever thought possible." And it is true. Maybe I am adicted to the ultra highs and the crash and burn lows. I guess it is the difference between riding the merry-go-round, vs riding the roller coaster. ( OK so I'm near the peak of a kitchen remodel that turned out well, ask again, in three months when I hit a low. LOL)
Bowz
Jim,
I started out as a carpenter while I was in Highschool. Needed money to buy a motorcycle and it was a family business.
Stuck with it to feed a wife and kid. I never much regreted it. I love to frame. I love the work and everything about it. I love to be outside. It doesn't matter if it's the cold of winter or the heat of summer. I love feeling worn out at the end of the day. I love sitting in the truck and looking at what I accomplished before the long drive home.
I've framed everything from a 1000 sqft, $74K tract house to a $4 million dollar custom ranch. I have always been proud of the fact that I can frame anything that I put my mind to.
I've had my own company.
Later on, I realized I love the work and hated the business. So, I went another route. I became the sole proprietor/ Artisan type. I stayed busy and made a living. I became know as the guy who could do things other couldn't. I've was the stair rail guy everyone called to solve their problem.
Early in 2002 my part time job became my career. not by my own choice. in 14 years I've come full circle. I've been the wide eyed kid as the old guys yelled and screamed at us getting us ready to go down range. I've been the guy who helped get the kids ready because he was going down range with them. And starting next week I'll be the old guy yelling and screaming, hoping some of it sinks in and saves a life or two.
I do what I do now Strictly because it's the right thing to do. And I'll do it until the bitter end. But on a cool fall day, I drive buy those guys framing that big house a few blocks away. And I long for those days when all I had to do was show up and build a house. Most of them don't bring home half of what I do, but they are still much richer, if only in their souls.
You've got me curious.... any chance we could get you to fill out your profile?
LOL , read on .
Tim Mooney
This user has not entered any profile information.
Tim Mooney
i'm pretty sure robert is NG.. getting ready to deploy
god speed , robertMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I am a sales rep for a lumberyard so dont get confused.
I get to spend all day talking to you guys.
I can find within 5 minutes in three different town, the cheapest coffee, the best breakfast and the funniest jokes.
I get paid to do spend all day visiting construction sites. I love construction but Im just not a craftsman like you guys, I know the mechanics but i cant get the art of it.
I get paid to talk about tools, hardware, steel, sticks,sheets and shingles.
I get to help people build there dream houses.
I get to see some of the most beautiful houses.
I love to solve problems, thought I probably cause a few of them to.
Whats not to love about this job.
PS I get discounts on tools.
Edited 11/10/2004 10:58 pm ET by jrdiblumber