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OK, I’ve learned to live with 1 1/2″ x 3 1/2″ 2×4’s but this is getting ridiculous.
– 2×8’s barely over 7″ wide
– 3/4″ AC plywood marked 23/32nds with only a sliver of wood on the A surface
– 1×4 T&G decking with only 3 1/8″ of surface
– The doofus at the lumber yard didn’t know what I was talking about when I asked about 3/4″ decking “Oh, you mean the 1×4’s…”
Will dimentions ever match reality or will we live with this quaint system forever?
-Randy
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Replies
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Randy:
We have a choice -- to change this "quaint" system or go metric. Which do you think will happen first? I think the likelihood of change in either regard will be directly tied to the freezing of hell (and not the town in Michigan).
Personally, I would be satified if we got rid on all these bizarre fractions and simpy went to tenths, hundredths or thousandths of inches. I never really enjoyed adding 1 and 9/16ths to 23/32nds. At least, 1.56 + 0.72 is understandable to my limited brain.
*The current lumber and plywood dimensions have been used for at least 22 to 25 years now. Virtually all of your center match lumber is re-milled from standard size, e.g. 1x6 pattern 116 (car siding) starts out as 1x6, is planned all 4 sides, dried to 15-19% moisture and ends up 3/4x5-1/2. When it is re-milled to make it center match the tongue and groove will reduce the actual surface exposure to 5". I can still remember 2x4's being 1-5/8x3-5/8 etc. What pisses alot of people off is the box store wood-marts renaming #2 lumber as "selects" , "best choice", or whatever name their marketing people think will impress the DIY market. Alot of us use I-joist instead of dimensional for joist or rafters due to the discrepancies in lumber widths especially 2x10 and 2x12's.
*Stanley,Metric would make a lot of sense but I went through that push in 4th grade, 20+ years ago and you can see how far we've come in that time. At that rate it'll never happen. Anyway, my frustration isn't with fractions, it's with a nonsensical tradition just one step away from blatant deception.-Randy
*Scott,The Milling process is how this nonsense got started decades ago, but it's no excuse today. They don't lose 1/2" of wood milling 2x4's or a 1/4" making 1x4's. They may get T&G from standard stock, hence, the subtraction of surface area, but there is no reason why they have to. They could mill the raw stuff wider to start with. There is absolutely no excuse for a 12" swath of floor to require 4 full strips of so-called 4" decking material instead of 3.
*Mr. Reid,Its like a secret handshake or something.The Machine
*It must be that time of the month for you Randy.I like the "secret" language. It gives you a built in argument when you accidently build a room too small.blue
*Mr. Reid----"the doofus at the lumberyard,who didn't know what I was talking about......"It would appear that the guy at the lumber yard knew what he was doing,and probably everyone else there as well.I guess if there was a "doofus" involved it was you.the machine was right,it is a little like a secret handshake.Secret handshake or not,most lumberyards will bend over backwards to help you if you admidt up front that YOU don't know quite what you need but describe the situation clearly.BTW,anybody ever have trouble at the auto parts store buying one of those doohickeys that bolt next to the whatcha-ma- callit?You know, they are about this big and they are kind of like a thing-a -ma -bob only not so much?Good Luck All,Stephen
*It's not just lumber -- I just bought a 32 foot ladder that's 29 feet long. ;-)But it's the other way with plumbing: One inch pipe is a whole lot bigger than an inch on the inside.In all these cases, many years ago, these things were really dimensions. Now they're just names.-- J.S.
*Stephen,How you been? I haven't seen you around for a while. I was waiting for you to call this poor guy a whiny prick or something. Anyhow, what happened to you around Petefest time? Pete
*Well thanks everyone for the sympathy and insight. I hope the next time you buy gas your "gallons" are really 1 1/2 quarts because, you know, a gallon of crude oil only yeilds 1 1/2 quarts of gas.-Randy
*Randy,I should have let you know that my above comments mean nothing about you at all. It is somewhat of an "inside joke" making reference to something that happened between me and Stephen some time ago.Pete
*That's because extension ladders are sized by the working height of an average man standing on the highest "safe" rung (3rd from the top). Yet another secret handshake !
*A funny thing happened on my way to Petefest.......and I missed it.Actually July was a slow month for me so I filled in the time with vacations.One trip with my sons' Boy Scout troop to Assateague Island(Maryland/Virginia). One trip with my householdd to the Outer Banks(North Carolina)One trip to take my son to the Junior Olympics regional meet in Lexington, Kentucky( my son qualified for the National championships in New York).Throw in the average assortment of Sundays and raindays and I only worked about 4 1/2 days in July.How does this affect my attendance at Petefest? I returned from North Carolina at 1:00 am. on july 31,and I was at work by 6:30 am. Making up for my idleness in July I have pretty much worked every day since and I only surfaced for air about a week ago.I didn't feel I could spend another 2-3-4 days of down time.I was toying with the idea of crashing the gate Friday night (I think it was Friday)when my wife lucked into Indians tickets (box seats no less). I am afraid Baseball takes precidence.Of course If I had known you would be leading excursions to the West side Market AND Great Lakes Brewing Company I might have blown off work.I occasionally run into John Sorenson---we could have car pooled!Actually I will be in town tonight.My wife and I are secretly theater snobs.Macbeth at the Ohio Theater.Think playhouse square will let a whiney prick roofer in the door?I will be attending in disguise(clean clothes count as a disguise for roofers)Good luck,Stephen
*Take a look at towel racks. Had someone who needed 24" bars for her 22" wide towels. Foolish me. I do the bathroom and then hang up a towel. It won't hang without bunching. Turns out the manufacturer decided to add in the width of the assembly hardware.
*No. It's because a 20' ladder is made up of two 10' sections that have to overlap by a few feet. So a 20' ladder really is only 18' tall when in use.
*No, it says right in the instruction book that came with my ladder that my version is correct. Added: I just checked the OSHA standards and it's incomprehensable: either version applies some of the time. My ladder, even though it's an "adjustable length" ladder, is rated per reach.
*Anybody put a 16oz hammer on the scale in a while?How come my size 10 boots are 12" long?And what's the deal with 64th's? Do they really exist? I don't think I've ever seen one.Ed. Williams
*nomenclature will get you every time.. a 28 ft ladder will have 2 sections of 14 ft. eachit's EXTENDED length will be 25 ft.and it's HIGHEST STANDING LEVEL (the highest rung you should stand on ).. is 21 ft. 2 inches..and from time immemorial.. it's been called a 28...
*But a single section 14' ladder is only 12' long, and it's called a 14' ladder.
*yeah , right , phill...get your money back...
*Gee, ED, I just swept up and disposed of a bunch of 64ths from an interior trim job. I could have sent them to you. Some, unfortunately, were "short" 64ths... not every job goes perfectly!Hint: The "short" 64ths are invisible (they seem to be gone before you notice them), and the "long" 64ths vaporize under the blade of the miter saw.Longingly, Steve
*You might be right. I don't know anythinhg about the measuring systems in the third world.
*All my step ladders are the length they're supposed to be. All my extension ladders are two sections, each section being 1/2 the advertised length.
*I use the obvious solution to the problem ,which is to stack 3 -8 ft. stepladders on each other to reach 24 ft. That way I am not cheated by those pesky mis-marked extension ladders.stephen
*I think you're onto something. I believe there are essentially two classes of ladders; those that reach. And those that don't.
*Well, it took a little research and reaading, but here it is: 1) the origins of the standard ladder lengths are based on the system that Mike Smith related. 2) a glance through some ladder specs revealed that if this system was currently used, some of the available 24' ladders would be rated from 21'11" (one of those multi-folding models) to 27' (ladder with an extra 3' added to the rails at the top). 3) found out the current standard is based on "the reasonable expectation of working height at a standard length" and appears to arrived at using a formula based on the distance from the base to the highest "standing" rung on the ladder (from the diagram, that looks like the 3rd rung from the top).
*Wow Phill, you need a job.
*I know, but there are only so many little jobs around; and, until my son is old enough to be left on his own, that's all I can take.
*All my ladders are way too tall by the time i get to the end of the rope, and they still don't reach. Why can't they tell the truth about dementia?
*Here's the scoop.When your at the bottom, its dementia. When your at the top, its vertigo. When your 32' ladder is only 29' tall, its depression (or metric). And when your ladder is upside down to climb into a foundation, it dyslexia.But really, if any of you have to go measure the height of a window to get the right ladder to fix it, or if you can't get up on the roof you contracted cause your ladder's too short, then just go figure.Don't work. Don't estimate. Don't even go out. Just go figure.PS. Anyone out there with a 56k modem ever connect at 56k? Yeah right!James DahlDahlPro.comEnjoy your future
*Ryan's explanation is the one given by Louisville Ladder, the maker of my 32 ft., and by Wing Enterprises, maker of my 26 ft that's 22' 11". ;-)-- J.S.
*Hey John,Good point, they should just be names. Next time I need to frame a wall I won't stock up on 2x4s, I'll just go to the 'Depot and ask for a prefab wall. Hmmn, how long is a 25 foot trailer...
*Well, Randy, you are a little off here. Although a tubafor is often abbreviated "2x4", that does not mean it is 2 inches by 4 inches. If I asked for a tubafor and they gave me something 2" x 4", I would complain, because everybody knows a tubafor is 1 1/2" x 3 1/2". Houses are designed to use lumber that exact size, and nobody ever better try to change it!
*The ultimate in bs dimensions is the square footage that the builders tell you. When they're getting prices, they round down a few hundred feet. When they're selling, they round up a few hunderd feet.blue
*John,Assumiming your over 2'-6" high, you should be able to reach to the 32' level off of your ladders top rung. LOL
*The worst are real estate agents who have starting using the catch phrases: "shows as" or "shows like" - that's where they advertise a 2700 sq ft home as "shows like 3200 sq ft".
*Haven't you seen the Realtor Suspendors? They are made by Armani in nice colors to match their suits and SUVs. The suspenders are marked out just like a tape measure or yard stick. That must be how 2,700 can look like 3,200.Tom the Tree Guy
*Tom,Is there a Realtor belt, too? Maybe make my 34 waist look like a 31 again.
*
OK, I've learned to live with 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" 2x4's but this is getting ridiculous.
- 2x8's barely over 7" wide
- 3/4" AC plywood marked 23/32nds with only a sliver of wood on the A surface
- 1x4 T&G decking with only 3 1/8" of surface
- The doofus at the lumber yard didn't know what I was talking about when I asked about 3/4" decking "Oh, you mean the 1x4's..."
Will dimentions ever match reality or will we live with this quaint system forever?
-Randy