Just stuff that irks me a bit….
Why do customers avoid calling me?
Today I am “tracked down” in a parking lot, not for the first time, by a customer that knows my phone number.
It is a common occurance for a woman to tell her husband (whom she knows runs into me occasionally) to tell me to call her.
One of my steady customers ran into someone who needs a roofleak fixed and can’t find anyone who will do it (I’m in the Yellow Pages!!?? The ad says I stop roof leaks!!??). Does he give her my number (which I’m sure he knows)? No. He gets her number and gives it to me.
Then…
In the parking lot today:
Customer: Can you rebuild a chimney??
Me: No, I don’t do masonry.
Customer: Could you come look at this?
Why do customers keep wanting me to do stuff even after I tell them I don’t do that???
And at the risk of highjacking my own thread….
Last week a good customer complained (not entirely unseriously) that the paint I put on their house a few years ago still isn’t pealing and their getting tired of the color. I explained that repainting it when it was still intact would be easier (cheaper). They seemed to feel a little better….
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Replies
Rich, it is because they know you are a very busy man and do not want to interfere with your day.
I know this because I worked for a very busy GC.
I always recommeded HO's and others to call his office or pager...he always got back to them immediateley.
Or..........a customer you have done a few jobs for stops by a job site and tell the hoemowner he needs to see you right away. You go out and he says "where you put the bathtub in my house has about a 4" piece of caulk that doesn't look right, no hurry but could you stop by and look at it?" He tell this to my employee who since he is working on anther job forgets, a week later I get a call "I talked with Mike about this caulk thing and I haven't heard back from you"
2 days ago I got a call from a couple that wanted to know where I was as their job was supposed to start. I said "remember I called the day after we talked a month ago and said I was wrong on the date I gave you and needed to move it a week". She says "oh I forgot to write that down, to bad we took off work and everything". So I say I am sorry for the mix up. Sorry? Write it down! DanT
>> Why do customers avoid calling me?
Are you kidding? It's because so many tradesmen and other businesses don't return phone calls. Or reply to e-mail, etc. Even Taunton replies to my e-mail only a little more than half the time.
I'm doing a bathromm remodel. The lady next door is a good friend of the HO, and she wants her kitchen redone. I have made one preliminary visit, but we need toi get together for an in-depth discussion. I have called and left several messages on her cell. She is a self-employed criminal defense lawyer, and has crazy hours ... so I don't expect to get instant responses. But about 2-3 days after I leave the message, my current client says she was talking with the lawyer, and relays a mesage. Why can't the lawyer return my call? She and my client and a couple of other women have a late breakfast together every morning, so I know she has some down time.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Something similar happened to me recently. My current customer has been discussing me with a friend. The friend asks her to ask me to call him. I don't like doing this but anyway, my customer gives me her friend's number. I call it and leave a message on the machine. I don't hear anything back. I'm not concerned, I've discharged the obligation and that's that.
A few days later my customer says have I heard back from her friend. No, says I. Oh' he told me he rang you back and left a message (I know that her friend is lying because I don't have an answering machine, out of hours calls are diverted to my cell phone). Anyway, would I ring him again. Okay, so I ring him and this time he answers. I tell him who I am. He says, yes, I've got your number I will ring you when I've got more time. Basically it's a brush off.... and it makes me feel like a **** 'cos I'm the one that rang him.
Next time anyone asks me to ring a potential customer I think I'll tell them to pass my number on and let them ring me
John
Ed
Commit a crime, she'll have time to talk to you then!
Doug
Maybe he should just become a bondsman.......then she'll be glad to take his calls.
"I will never surrender or retreat. " Col. Wm. B. Travis, The Alamo, Feb. 1835
And she'single. Early 30's. Maybe I should offer my services as a .... oh, never mind.
From an earlier post by someone else talking about chimney repairs ... what is spouting?Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Rich - as to your initial question - 'why I have to call them instead of them calling me' - the answer is tied up in the power dynamics in the potential relationship - the person who places the call is at a disadvantage...in effect you are petitioning for their favor rather than vice-versa...
"there's enough for everyone"
oh, by the way - call me...
"there's enough for everyone"
Rain gutters, down spout, eaves trouth, rain water diverting deviceses.
Rich,
I would strongly urge you to consider adding limmited masonry to your scope of potential work.
For me, as a roofing contractor it has proved to be an additional "profit center"-----for virtually no effort on my part.
If you are in the yellow pages buying an ad-----you likely recieve an additional free listing-----I suggest you choose " chimney builders and repairers" as your free listing.
In my area of over 200,000---there are probably over 150 yellow pages listings for roofers----page after page.----there are only 10 guys listed under "chimney builders and repairers."
On virtually every roof you do there will be a chimney you can suggest repairs to.
List suggested repairs as an additional " add-on" item. that will allow you to keep the basic price of your roof lower----but still sell the extra's and earn extra profit. you are certainly capable of handling simple tuck pointing jobs, replacing mortar caps, replacing the top flue section if it has deteriorated and installing chimney caps. You can even up-sell from painted black chimney caps to stainless or copper. I sub out rebuilding chimneys from the roof line up and can personally clear over $1000 on those----with the brick mason sub supplying brick mortar,flue,skill everything-------
also---the chimney ad brings me chimney flashing jobs at about $350 each-------a lot of people won't call a roofer for the leak around a chimney----they call a chimney guy. around here the chimney guys don't own sheet metal brakes and do really marginal jobs flashing chimneys.
Many roofers see spouting as a natural sideline( imagine choosing the one thing more price sensitive and competitive than roofing as a side line)------believe me----I make more off of limmited chimney work each year than I do off of spouting. I like to do small chimney repairs while the crew is at lunch and out of the way----you can skip lunch and earn a couple hundred bucks on A LOT of roof jobs by adding Chimney repairs.
Just my opinion,
Stephen
"Just my opinion"Which I value very highly.Thanks. You make good points. I'll reconsider it.It's funny, because a couple of years ago I tried to sell a chimney repair while trying to sell a roof, but I didn't get either job.It hasn't come up since. In the meantime, I decided that I had to stop taking jobs that I don't already know how to do. So when he said rebuild a chimney, I said no. The only masonry work I've done is a bit of tuck pointing, so I said I would look at that.My Yellow Page ad (dollar bill size, under roofing,includes the phrase "Roof Leak Repair") has garnered three phone calls. I got two of the three jobs for a total gross of $660 (small jobs!). Book came out in March!Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
I get the "gimme a call when you slow up" all the time....trouble is, I never slow up. Every time I begin to close in on open calender dates, two or three more jobs than I can handle "pop up". I learned a long time ago......when someone suggests I call them or a freind of theirs, my immediate reply is to either set up an appointment to look at the project right then and there, or have them call me when they are ready to get the ball rolling. I let them know right from the get go, I will not be calling them
As for the Yellow Pages ad....you`ve already recieved two more than I did after a year...I sh!t thee not, when I tell you the only phone call I recieved from the ad was from a competing phone directory asking if I wanted a listing in their book.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
That tactic of call me when you're not busy usually gives me the feeling they are thinking along the lines of "I'll help you out by giving you my project when you don't have any work". It's happened before where I know they're suggesting a better price for their unemployment assistance. Runs in the same vein as "stick with me and I'll keep you busy for the rest of your life". This business really is a course in psychology............Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
"stick with me and I'll keep you busy for the rest of your life".
Hey....I worked for that guy too!! Had me believing him for a good stretch. His favorite was..."If we land this job, we`re all going to do very well". Inevitably, before we finished that project, he`d be pulling guys off to start a new one cause he was "loosin` BIG".J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
"That tactic of call me when you're not busy usually gives me the feeling they are thinking along the lines of "I'll help you out by giving you my project when you don't have any work". It's happened before where I know they're suggesting a better price for their unemployment assistance. "That maybe, but as a HO I never thought of it in that manor. And I have used it on clients of mine - "I am too busy now" and they respond with give me a call when you can get to it. And of course I never "get to It" because something comes up.I think in a lot of cases this is just humman nature just as often or more often then somebody trying to "work you".How many times have you meet someone and say "we need to get together" and it never happens?I met someone at a party and found that we had lots of common interest. After agreeing that "we need to get together" she said "just don't say it, do it" and we set a date.And we have been friends for over 15 years. But if was left as "when you have time" type of comment it would have never happened.
I concede, you are probably right with the majority of intentions, the memory of a couple just lodged in my mind.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
"This business really is a course in psychology..........."You got that right!!!!
Rich,
don't be discouraged by the results of your ad. It's entirely possible you simply need to tweak it a bit.
1st ignore virtually everything the ad rep tells you. They aren't interested in anything about you except how big of an ad they can sell you.
Instead----go to the library that will have old copies of phone books. Look for companies that have been running ads---preferably the same ad for years---decades even. They wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.-----check 5 years ago ,10 years ago ,20 years ago----see a trend?
also check out the size of the ads that run for years---and the ones that sisappear after 2-3 years.
When I did this in my area----what I found was the best, longest running ads were between matchbook size and credit card size.
the full page ads cost approx. $2000/ month----nobody was able to stay with those for long-------but the smaller ads ran for years.
My current ad is about matchbook size and in color for a little over $300/month. A dollar bill sized ad with no color would ne ,I think $500-600
I never expected to sell entire roofs from the ad. My plan all along was to solicit primarily repair work from that size ad. I have always viewed the repair work as an audition for bigger jobs and a way to generate referalls.
Typically a customer calls with a leaking valley or chimney. Call them back immediately----go out promptly---same day if possible----give em a moderately high price. Usually the first roofer to price a repair gets the job----so don't work cheap. Fix it RIGHT---reflash the whole effen chimney, tuck the flashing into the mortar, explain why the old flashing was poorly done----PUT ON A SHOW!
After I do something like that---the customer will refer you----often after a repair I am replacing the entire roof 5 years later. or---after the repair---a month or a year later they refer you to a friend,co-worker, neighbor etc.------put on a show for those people as well.
You gotta take the long view----I know for a fact that there are chimneys I re-flashed10 -15 years ago that over the years have grossed me well over $20,000 each.
Give it time----odds are one of those jobs you did will pay off in the long run.
BTW----for the last few years I have been tracking virtually all my calls----I know which ones are generated by ads in the phone book, ads in church bulletins, ads in a neighborhood newsletter, referalls from previous customers etc.
collect the data for a few years and you will see where to best spend your advertising and marketing dollars
also---since I am trying to scale back on my roofing I am scaling back on my phone book ad for roofing and putting the same money into direct mail each month to insurance agencies solicitng plaster repair work, and to a newsletter in a local neighborhood----I am also looking for a way to directly hit the " this old House" type of crowd trying to restore and repair older homes( general carpentry)
Good Luck
Rich,
I didn't have time for all the details this morning ---but you are gonna love the co-incedence here.
8:30 am appointment for a roof estimate . Young couple recently moved into the neighborhood---got my number from the yellow pages----via the free internet listing. I met with them, wrote up a proposal explained that it was perfectly possible to replace their roof now----but they would get much better long term performance out of the roof if we waited untill warmer weather in the spring. since they were new in town I offered to drive them by any and all of the many roofs I have done in the neighborhood---and based on their ethnicity directed them to check out the Catholic church nearby which I had roofed when the new church was built a year ago-----they were already familiar with the church.
Also----this Wednesday-----I went to an appointment in the rain/snow/sleet---to look at a " roof leak" for a customer Who we calculated I had re-flashed his chimney 15-17 years ago. his current problem was on a completely seperate part of the house ( sunroom)---and turned out I told him I was 99% sure it wasn't a problem with the roof---but was likely a problem with the vinyl siding and aluminum trimming out a window. since I wasn't confident of the EXACT source of the leak I suggested how he might be able to handle it himself, assured him that the sunroom roof shingles were still in good shape---but pointed out my concerns about the numerous nail punctures on the main roof.
He mentioned that he and his wife were already considering the possibility that they would have to have me handle replacing the house roof in the spring----we discussed how we were going to have to strip 2 layers of asphalt shingles, 1 layer of wood shingles, completely re-deck etc.
BTW Rich, I hope you don't feel I am lecturing you personally-----I am just trying to point out,to some of the younger guys, the benefits to looking at long range thinking.
Very best wishes to you,
Stephen
Edited 12/3/2004 11:45 am ET by Stephen_Haz
Stephen, do you always postpone roofing jobs till spring, or was their some reason that you decided to push the young couples?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Stephen, I ran that insurance repair thing by Frank today and we agreed that we should move forward with it. We are intending on finding one or two handypersons, preferably a retired autoworker that is in the homerepair business to do all the repairs.
My first instinct is to do a direct mailing campaign aimed at roofers and remodelers who don't want to get involved in "small" jobs.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
I will try to not sound to arrogant---but----
I want my roofs to achieve a certain life span------winter installations are not conducive to achieving that goal
I usually pretty well end my roofing season by about thanksgiving and don't start up again untill late march early april
During my winter off I might work a few hours 2 or 3 days a month----as a courtesy to old customers or referalls. Roof Repairs only.
It is 8:45 am now and the roofs here are still covered with frost, despite brilliant sunshine. I would have to wait untill 10:00 for the frost to melt off. It will be dark by 4:30----what's the point? ( After all MY roof ain't leaking and these folks should of planned ahead!!!!!)
Also in the winter the shingles will be frozen together in a bundle----one big 80# asphalt and ice brick.
The slightest bump on the corner of a frozen shingle will break the corner off------making for an un-attractive product.
Frozen shingles are very brittle----especially the laminates and will crack if bent into valleys, over ridges etc.
Roof top delivery in winter virtually gaurantees damaged shingles---stress fractures of the fiberglass mat within the shingle-----a damage that is invisible at the time of installation but which will greatly shorten the life of the roof.
Icegaurd won't stick to the deck------sealdown strips won't allow the shingles to glue to each other--------and when spring arrives with warmer weather they STILL might not seal down due to dust,grit and oxidation
I could go on and on---but basically winter work will not let me produce the quality product I expect of myself and that I put my name on.
A repair which can be done in a few hours during the warm part of the RIGHT day is OK----but I am not really interested in doing an entire roof if I can postpone it untill spring
After all----the customer should have planned ahead----It's not like the arrival of winter each year is a suprise to anyone.
Basically---if I am gonna do the work---we are gonna do it MY WAY
My whole gig is based on maximizing my hours spent actually working. Producing the most value and earning the most MONEY possible per hour of work.
Work so far for 2004------573 hours of production work plus 315.5 hours of overhead = 890.75 hours of work this year.
2003 figures 693.25 hours production plus 272.5 hours overhead =965.75 hours worked
2002 figures 679.75 hours production---did not track overhead but assume it was proportional
See the idea????
If I am gonna do a project it is gonna be done MY WAY at MY PRICE.
Doing so allows me to pay the kids private school tuition, rent the house for vacation, have plenty of time to lift weights, volunteer at the food bank , explore woodworking and read,read ,READ
Actually read and think, READ and think, read and THINK.
Instead of trying to work more hours hoping to earn more money-------designing ways to maximize the effectiveness and earning potential of the hours i DO work.
Now---since I am not a particularly bright guy---not real mentally quick ya know-----thinking things through to their inevitable conclusion is HARD work. But I know for a fact that I OFTEN "earn" more laying on my back on the couch staring up at the ceiling---and following those thoughts up for about 10 minutes with a pencil and paper-----than I make sometimes all day on a hot roof.
sorry to be so long winded
Stephen
Stephen,I guess I've always subconsciously assumed that, since you took about four months a year off that you really put in the hours the other eight months.But I see that I was mistaken. If I assume you are working 30 weeks a year (I knocked out an additional four weeks for inclement weather), and use the highest numbers you give:"2003 figures 693.25 hours production plus 272.5 hours overhead =965.75 hours worked"I find that you average 23.11 hours per week in production and 9.08 hours per week for overhead. That's a 32.19 hour week. Very impressive.Rich BeckmanOf course there's a problem, people are involved!
Rich,
you now have me figured out pretty close.
however the division isn't terribly consistent. One week might be pretty full of production and I might" produce" only one day the next week.
Also---I historically I "produce " very little for about a 6 week period each year centered around July----so that's when we rent a house at the beach for a week or two---and thats when I work on my house-----painted 3 sides of it this summer----last summer remodeled the kitchen----next summer finish painting and then replace the front porch floor----may be teak for fun!!!
Also--- when I spend that thinking time studying my personal tax situation I find that there are certain points where earnning additional money won't actually put much more spendable money in the hands of my household.
and I have come to find that having direct employees both costs me money out of my pocket AND actually INCREASES the hours I have to work----essentially I become a slave to the employees and have to pay for the priviledge of supporting THEM.
Analyse your actual work results carefully and you may find what I mean about being a slave to the employees.
But at age 42 I am reaching the point where I think I will be happier working a few more hours ( 1200 max) at a slightly lower per hour effective rate of renumeration----If that can come with a lower stress level.
and I am thinking through the ramifications of selling my existing house and buying a much more expensive " fixer" with better potential to FORCE in longer term appreciation than my current long time home has .( more potential by a factor of 2 to 3 times current house)---.
Stephen
"and I have come to find that having direct employees both costs me money out of my pocket AND actually INCREASES the hours I have to work----essentially I become a slave to the employees and have to pay for the priviledge of supporting THEM.Analyse your actual work results carefully and you may find what I mean about being a slave to the employees."Based on my limited experience with employees so far (at least in this business...it was different in pizza!), I agree with you. My employee certainly made more money than I made while he worked for me. It is true that he worked harder physically, but I put in more hours (and more risk, and more thinking,....).Once you have an employee, all the stakes rise. The employer has to be sure to maintain firm control, and proper pricing becomes paramont.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
"It's not like the arrival of winter each year is a suprise to anyone."Must be news to some folks. My phone always started ringing incessantly in about October from panic stricken homeowners realizing they would have to put up with another year of ice damns and leaks. Some trades go up in price in the spring when work picks up and the tax refunds appear. Roofers get to increase prices in the fall.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Stephen
Producing the most value and earning the most MONEY possible per hour of work.
Instead of trying to work more hours hoping to earn more money-------designing ways to maximize the effectiveness and earning potential of the hours i DO work
Very well said.
Excellence in action.
Bowz
First of all Rich, I assume the reason she is having her husband track you down for a completely annoying little job you don't do is that she has the brilliant mind to have her husband do the legwork to find herself a little plaything. Women actually do these kinds of things. She likes you and doesn't mind sending her half idiot hubbie out to hunt for fresh meat. She doesn't want the job done. She wants herself done.
Secondly, I find people calling me all the time wanting me to do an annoying little job I never professed to being capable of or advertising to do. I just convince them this job does not need to be done, but I'll take their money for my advice if they wish. When they can find nobody else to do it and you find them trying to convince you that you are capable of doing it, tis time to turn the table and convince them they can do it. Unless of course your price will be worth the laugh all the way to the bank. Don't even go there.
"She likes you and doesn't mind sending her half idiot hubbie out to hunt for fresh meat. She doesn't want the job done. She wants herself done."ROFLMAO!!!!!Not likely!! I have already been in her home with just the two of us there. If she's trying to have me as a plaything (LOL!!! Plaything!! That's rich!), she is way too subtle for my poor observational skills.And, most importantly, I am not available.Rich BeckmanOf course there's a problem, people are involved!
>>Today I am "tracked down" in a parking lot, not for the first time, by a customer that knows my phone number.<<
Thank the Lord that they found you!
>>It is a common occurance for a woman to tell her husband (whom she knows runs into me occasionally) to tell me to call her.<<
Then call him and thank the Lord you have a customer that wants to talk with you!
>>No. He gets her number and gives it to me.<<
Thank the Lord he thought so highly of you and call the customer asap!
>>Customer: Could you come look at this?<<
Tell him "no" again and give him the name of a good mason guy. Then call the mason guy and tell him a lead is coming his way and ask him to return the favor.
I know you're probably just blowing off steam. However your post reminded me of something a guy once said to me..."I'd love this business if it weren't for the customers." HUH!?!?!?!?!?!? Be darn glad yo have customers - however they want to reach you.
- Rob