Simple little new $1.5 million house, free standing two car garage (so you can carry the groceries in the rain I guess) the garage has two garage doors, each door is 8 inches from the inside wall of the garage- almost no room to get out of the car much less open the car door.
Plenty of room on the lot to make the garage wider. Whats that about?
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Replies
$1.5 mil and it's only 2 cars?
that's strange just by itself . . . .
$1.5 mil and it's only 2 cars?
that's strange just by itself
Depends Bozemon, then, the question would be more apt (and why it wasn't jsut a barn anyway . . . <g>)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
$1.4 mil here buys 6350 sf
6 bedrooms
5 bathrooms
3 car garagein one of our tonier (and design-restrictive, i.e. wood columns, true divided lites, etc.) neighborhoods . . . if you like being surrounded by neo-georgian splendoreeewwwwwww
Edited 7/21/2006 6:08 pm ET by draftguy
$1.4 mil here buys
<G>
I know a place for sale where $1.75 mill just scores you a single-wide . . . and 650 acres or so (well, there's six barns, and five other single-wides, and 4-5 tanks) . . .
The ugly monstrosity Perry Homes threw up next to my sister's next-to-last place in West U, in Houston, was on the market for $1.1 mill--3200sf, 2+1 garage, 4/4.5 on less than 1/8 acre zero lot lined.
Go figure <g>.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
>>"one of our tonier (and design-restrictive, i.e. wood columns, true divided lites, etc.) neighborhoods"New Albany?1.4 million in my neighborhood will get you the whole block. That is, if you can get the scumbag slumlord to sell.
New Albany?
aye, 'tis
Too bad about the scumbag landlord. We've run into that in Franklinton and the Hilltop as well. A client recently got some property he'd had his eye on for awhile after the former owner actually did some jail time for his abandoned properties being used as crackhouses.
You've hit a sore spot with me my friend. Honest to God if I had a nickle for every time I tried to figure out what was going on in some architect's mind (or lack thereof), I would retire. Some architects don't really give a hoot about function and think they are the next building art design genius, others are too pragmatic and boring.
I have worked with many who have a small dose of both, throw in some good humor about themselves and those are the good ones. I try to stay close to the ones I work well with because they usually have a good take on the world around them.
They can be a stubborn lot.
It's all a right wing plot - - or is that left wing?
To force the owners to give up their gas guzzling monster SUV's and buy a pair of real small tin cans so they can open the doors while in the garage.
More room, too, to open that umbrella for the dash to the house.
look a little closer, those bays are for the golf carts. There's probably a real garage there somewhere.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
golf carts and umbrellas I love it (there are a lot of golf carts used there but no golf course
My grandmother lived in a duplex in Sun City Fla for several years. She was in her 90's and had a golf cart so she could visit friends and go to the grocery store.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Whats that about?
He's a newbie dumbazz????? (Does not know how big a car is.)
He was absent the day they thought "Form follows Function"?????
Now you know why there are codes for stairs, hallways, doorways, etc......
BTW....I would pay close attention to the other dimensions on those plans........rarely is stupidity an isolated phenomenon.
Had an arch. book once called "Form follows Fiasco".
Had an arch. book once called "Form follows Fiasco".
Or in this case........"Fiasco follows Form"
Around here many developers have attached garages on the side of the home to make the home appear larger from the front. However, they make the garages as tight as possible (19' wide) to save on lot sizes......saving 2'/lot gives you an extra lot every so often.
The average HO looking at the sales plans, or the model, cannot tell if the garage is 19' or 22' wide. They just know it's a 2 car garage.
"........rarely is stupidity an isolated phenomenon"
Wow, words to live by. Like so many words of wisdom, they are obvious when well-stated, but reveal life in a different light. Thanks.
"Simple little new $1.5 million house,"
I hope you meant that as a joke...
I started a thread here once about garages and how they were used. Many people don't use them for putting vehicles in They're just for storing "stuff".
Some people love attached garages. Others can't stand them, or think they're too much of a fire hazard.
If you order a "canned" plan off the internet, they almost always have garages that are ridiculously small.
So some of it could be just because that's what's expected locally. Or maybe the HO wanted to save moey by making the garage as small as possible so they could affors the house.
Or the architect could be an idiot.
Might not be a joke depending on where he lives. If he's in some "smart growth" area, $1.5 mill would get you a shack.
In California, for $1.5 Milliion, it could be a spec house. In any the case, the builder would have been reducing the square footage to cut their costs. When is the last time any of you did what you wanted when the person paying you said they wanted something else. Not all archi's are morons, but some leave no doubt. There had to be someone to approve the plans and if they can't do the math required to figure out whether a car door will open in this garage, that's bad enough. Then, there has to be a buyer who thinks this house is great until they can't open the door and will jump through every hoop available in order to dump on "the idiot who designed this place". Until it's time to sell and then it becomes, "we really hate to sell it but we're relocating". Nobody here knows the whole story about why this garage is so small. Who says this house was actually designed by an architect? It could have been the builder's design, signed of on by someone who is registered but was only a drafter before they got their license (usually, they can take it after a certain amount of time depending on the state) and has no real concern with how functional it is. They get their fee and go home. Maybe the person who signed off on it was adamant about changing it and couldn't get the $ guy to pay for it.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Simple little new $1.5 million house,"
I hope you meant that as a joke...
Boss
I worked on a place down here in Austin TX where that just covered the garage! Of course it had a really nice guest apartment above and a full fledged commercial kitchen downstairs to accommodate the caterers when they threw big shin-digs.
Doug
Seinfeld's elevator for his garage cost a couple of million I believe. A buddy of mine was hired by the lighting designer, who was hired by an architect, who was hired by an elevator consultant, to build a model. This is all for the elevator alone.
Plenty of room on the lot to make the garage wider. Whats that about?
As a guess, a last-minute miscommunication.
Like as not, the drafter was told to change one door to two, or to change the door size; and the drafter has no idea that there are minimums for such things (there's no class on garage design in either drafter or archy school).
Detaching the garage can have all sorts of foundation benefits; or it could be a customer request/requirement; or it's a stylistic thing. Could even be required as a local aspect for size/placement/use, too--hard to call at this remove.
Now, the narrow side wall has many other problems than merely opening car doors. Like things like the framing of that opening. Or AHJ/Lender requirements for sheer/lateral strength (FHA requires 36" as of 2004).
Things happen, too.
"Detaching the garage can have all sorts of foundation benefits"
I have no idea what you could mean by that. Seems to me that attaching the garage eliminates the need for a footing on the common wall.
Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up.
you could mean by that
True, it's not the most efficient use of concrete. However, 'round here at least, having a grade-level slab & a house-level slab makes for some odd bending moments. Carry that up the walls, to the plates, and into the roof structure, and those moments wander around a bit. Which makes for weird cracks in the wall finishes, and other sorts of headaches that can be avoided.
Now, it's more of a personal bugabear for me--if form follows function, then you have two completely different foundation "needs." Joining two different foundations together makes for complexity that could be better coped with elsewhere.
Or, maybe, I've seen one too many garage slabs poured up against rim joists, too.
That, and it's so simple to make the connection from garage to house a nice interticial space, that lets a person have an airlock (or Texans a 'mud room') to not be worth at least "looking at."Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
We have a detached garage, and if I ever built a house I would detach it. My design would include a breezeway for rain (which ours doesn't have), but for me the benefits outweigh the drawbacks:
1) The garage is behind the house so my not so huge home doesn't look like a garage with a house on attached.
2) because the garage could orient in a different direction from the front of the house, the long narrow lot has a much larger garage then it would if it was attached at the front as is standard. In fact, the footprint of the garage is about the same as the original house.
3) Our garage has a large workshop area, the noise stays pretty much in the garage.
4) Hazard from fire and fumes is reduced.
5) Noise from the garage door doesn't make it into the house.
6) The "courtyard" area in the back of the house created by the perpendicular house and garage is private and pleasant. We can leave our garage door open and passers-by don't see all our stuff.
7) The long south facing roof of the garage would make a great solar collector if I had the money for one. This would not be possible with my lot orientation and style of home if the garage were up front and attached.
Hey! You been snoopin' through my designs? <g>
You've cited many of the same garage/workshop design features that are important to me; I could probably live in a 1,200 square-foot house as long as I could have a workshop twice that size!
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I could probably live in a 1,200 square-foot house as long as I could have a workshop twice that size!
Spoken like a man after my own heart. - I've got the first part mastered, still working on the second part!"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
>As a guess, a last-minute miscommunication.Or it could even be client pref. I've had clients "force" a number of non-optimal decisions. I'll state my case, but as long as it's not a code/safety issue, it's ultimately their choice. Builder may curse me out (hopefully after learning how to spell "architect" (or designer!)), but all I can do with somethings is agree and say, talk to the HO.
LOL. I still like arkitek, sounds Russian, it'll come in handy next week.
Plus many houses put the garages out front, as the prominent focal point. Basically a 3 car garage with attached house. What's up with that?
-insert witty saying here...
Around here I think garages are a status symbol. It shows you have the money to actually keep your car running, rather than parking it in the front yard on concrete blocks.(-:
Can you imagine Moses asking Congress to pass the Ten Commandments. [John Perkins]
It sounds like you must have moved down to Tim's location.I figured that this would be more the style in your "hood".http://boortz.com/images/funny/redneck_pics_carjack.jpg
Hey!!! don't knock that jack "system" :-)
That is one nice machine... seriously :-)
The reason they do it is because they have never opened their car door inside a garage that was designed by a nit wit.
Also, detached garages are safer in some locals. Mine is detached in Northern Maine in case of a fire. There's no way the FD is going to save the house with a car fire in an attached garage. I will also be cutting and welding in there as needed. Paint fumes also once in a while is possible.
A 35K garage is better to lose than the house IMO.
Basically a 3 car garage with attached house. What's up with that?
What's up with that are builders-as-developers trying to get as many lots per acre as they can, and also not using any sort of archy at all, but just a couple of drafters (cheap as possibly can be paid) in a "design department," too.
PHB in Sales send a memo, "Subdivision NNN to have 3 car garages," and then the "Design" department has to choose the best lipstick for that pig (and with almost no experience in a drug store--or pig farm--let alone even being around cosmetics . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
LOL... and well said!+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
some pix of the area inside the garage
What's your problem? Roll down the car window, raise the sash on the double hung, and climb out :)
Ridiculous!
could even be client pref. I've had clients "force" a number of non-optimal decisions
Yeah, I could not come up with a tactful way to say "it's sum'pin' stoopid the clown holding back 10% of m' pay insists on."
Or, the PITA client, having already whined their way through about 178% of the fee (and has only paid 83.7%--check's in the mail this time, promise) had "just one, quick, simple, they're pouring tomorrow, easy, fast, change--can you get that out day before yesterday, please?"
Having learned the hard way, I now have a form equivalent to an "against medical advice" hospital sign-out sheet. Customers occasionally balk at that--but, the mostly reasonable ones will also listen to the "it's for the owner two or three owners from now as much as anything else--it's still your house, your way."Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"Could even be required as a local aspect for size/placement/use, too--hard to call at this remove."in my town attached and unattached garges are taxed differently
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
How wide are the garage doors?
If they're 8x7, then that's way too tight for a car. But as Boss Hog pointed out, maybe they're not really intended for a car to park in.
If the doors are 10x8, you could probably park a car in there and get out of it.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
It's because there are all kinds of Architects just like there are all kinds of people. Unfortunately, a lot of architects go to school to gain book knowledge for the sake of the degree itself rather then a heart felt desire to design living space. The result is that they come out with a degree but zero common sense and experience. They obtain the certification TO DO IT but that doesn't, in any way, mean that THEY CAN DO IT.
Sad to say, it's an all too common fault with too many of today's college students. I have a prime example living just next door, I like my neighbor but his daughter just graduated with a degree in education, multidisciplinary to boot, yet she can't calculate percentage and didn't know where Iraq was until just last year. She has either gotten a whole lot smarter in the last year or she's still a little dull and just covers it up well. If her degree had been in Architecture then she would definitely have been the one to design an eight inch space between the wall and the edge of the garage door.
Do yourself and the homeowner a favor, pull the him/her aside and diplomatically explain the potential problems with the current design. Maybe just mentioning it to the Architect will suffice, it's your call.
How wide is the garage and how wide are the doors?
It has to be a mistake if they are using it for cars. I would call the Architect and ask him. Also how much space is between the two doors.
minimal space between the doors- 18 - 24 in or so
I had a client demand > 6' between bays once. Builder musta thought I was into waste. Never asked why I did that. Wanna guess the client's reason for the demand?
"I had a client demand > 6' between bays once...Wanna guess the client's reason for the demand?"Wheelchair?Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Good guess, but no. You're gonna love the actual answer.
Extremely wide client?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Because one day they might have two Hummers and they wanted plenty of wing span room.[Nice people, two very normal vehicles currently, but one day...]
Ahh, so the vehicles were wide, not the client.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
LOL!
tires of dinging up the other vehicle...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
What is the width of the garage and the width of the doors?Joe Carola
I remember an architect painted into a corner on this one. He responded with "Harley parking"
the garage has two garage doors, each door is 8 inches from the inside wall of the garage- almost no room to get out of the car much less open the car door.
Plenty of room on the lot to make the garage wider. Whats that about?
They do this because they have a fancy piece of paper with a shiny gold/silver seal on it that says they went to college. And people are willing to pay them as if they know what they are doing!
Of my soapbox now, no offense to anyone I've just worked on a couple of jobs recently with archetcts that could not design legos to work proporly "But it looks nice!"
Not that this lets anyone off the hook, but here is something to think about:
People who can afford those kind of houses often don't have "stuff" in their garage. Just cars...
"People who can afford those kind of houses often don't have "stuff" in their garage. Just cars.." Wanna bet? Go for a drive in the most affluent areas of wherever you live and look for open garages. I think you'll be surprised. I agree that some people in houses like this are very organized but there is also the opposire extreme, too. I'm amazed by some of the garages I have seen. OTO, some others were so clean you could eat off of the floor.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I typed a long response and it got lost :-(
Here is the summary: when you have a lawn service who needs any lawn/garden maintenance items? When you trade your car in every 2 years, who needs tools? Tools are for the little people ;-) That vintage Corvette? Only drive it about 400 miles a year on sunny days. Too busy making money for that. OK - so there are some golf clubs in the corner.
As far as looking in people's garages - here, those priced homes are all side entry garages. It's in the covenants. Maybe you are a remodeler and get more of an inside view...
And my statement has nothing to do with cleanliness.
What about bikes and sporting equipment. Goft cards, ATV's, etc, etc.
More than likely, the architect's ego is involved. He's letting his idea of good design get in the way of practical design.
By the way, it's architect, not architech.
It seems like everyone is wanting to bash the architect on this one. However, Edward is not telling us how wide each door is. If it's 16' per door, you have an extra large garage that any vehicle will fit nicely into. The only measurement that Edward mentioned was that each door was 8" from the interior wall.
"Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
I posted some pix
Saw the pix, a single 16' would have made a lot more sense than the two 8's.
Less elegant in not having a "his" -n- "hers" doors, but, still . . .
Hey, how deep are the bays? If it's 24-25' from back-of-door to wall, there's enough room to offset one vehicle from the other, so the doors don't quite bang into each other. Mostly.
Otherwise, that'll be as bad as the "garage" on my house, the one that is only 120" stud to stud wide & 84" tall at the door (out-swinging 4' doors).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Not jsutifying it, but the angle is bad.Wonder if those might be 9 or even 10 ft doors.
Wonder if those might be 9 or even 10 ft doors.
True enough, I just assumed those were middling stock 8x7's . . .
Which makes the micro-sidewalls even dumber. Even a HMMV will fit through an 8' door (not something one wants the 16 y/o to try out with one's own heavily mortgaged garage door; but still possible--don't 'look' it, but HMMV is only 2" wider than an Explorer).
Hmm, I'm going to have to scroll back and eyeball those doors again--was that the full width of the garage we were seeing from the inside? There's no sheer in that wall at all then. Man, that would bug me until I added a "buttress" (or a backstay <g>) to "triangulate" that wall . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I wonder the same thing. New shopping center in the neighborhood. The angle of entry into the lot is so acute that incoming cars have to swing into the exiting cars' lane to get in. Must be a dozen near-accidents a day. I guess it looked good on paper.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
What makes you think there was an architect involved in this house? And if there was, what makes you think the architect did anything other than what he was asked to do?
DG/Builder