I have done kitchens for myself and others, and they are all quite nice, IMHO. All of them have cab carcases that are 3/4″ melamine-faced particleboard.
If you are one of those staunch foes of the use of particleboard in cabinets, please contribute here with some real life stories of cab failure due to its use. I would like to hear the details of these failures.
And if you are one of those PB foes who has issues with longevity and service duration, PB versus wood or plywood, please give us some facts that bear out your opinions.
Replies
Seen my share that swelled up at the edge tape.
Personally I don't like that look.... but that's just me.
I'm not a "staunch foe" but I just finished a custom home with melamine carcasses and a few drops of water and the melamine is bumpy overnight.
I've seen many sink base cabs with the PB bottom falling apart from getting wet. I know plywood will delaminate eventually but it holds up to the inevitable moisture much longer.
My only real issue with PB in cabinets is around sink bases and dishwashers.
I know plywood will fail also when subject to water however PB will do so much quicker.
My biggest complaint is a PB bottom piece in a sink base, at some point in kitchen's life the sink faucet, trap, shut off's or something will leak. I've seen way to many sink bases in otherwise good shape with the bottom sheet rotten all to hell from water.
You challenged me personally on this a couple years ago.
Anywhere any sort of water exists ( that includes airborne inmyhumid climate) it simply does not hold its shape or finish.
It does not do a good job of holding fasteners over the years compared to plywood or solid wood either.
And yet, here I sit at a melamine computer desk
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Only reason I don't like PB is because the Kraft-Maid cabinets we have in our house are PB, and they are literally falling apart. Get 'em wet and they turn into oatmeal. The shelf in a 30" wide wall cab sags one full inch over its' length. The nice vinyl picture of wood over the PB is peeling off. In short, I hate them.
Otherwise, they're fine.....
I refuse to have termite barf in my new house, bottom line. There's no reason NOT to have plywood or solid wood. Even OSB is better.
>>>I refuse to have termite barf in my new house, bottom line.
Hahaha. Can't say I've heard that term before.
*sheepishly looks over at Ikea PB kitchen waiting to be finished...
If I were having a custom built job, I'd have PB for walls and bases, but in high humidity/drip areas I'd specify plywood.
Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
A kitchen is by definition a high humidity area
and a kitchen is where you generally put kitchen cabinets
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
aside from what others have posted about moisture
Plywood boxes are nicer to install - hold screws better, lighter
Mostly a repeat of others.
Most of the drawers in my 2nd shop are PB with full extension slides. The only reason they are PB is that the slides came with them and I got them all FREE.
Why free? Every last one had some swelling or delamination. Good enough for a shop drawer though.
I did a custom pantry last winter using melamine cause the client wanted it white. I liked that the material was prefinished and easy to maintain (clean).
I thought this would save me a lot of time, but I found it difficult to get clean edges when cutting the material, it is heavy (which makes it harder to work with solo), the dust is worse than plywood, the edge banding can chip easily or delaminate, and as others have said it will swell if it gets wet.
I am not a staunch foe, but for me plywood is easier to work with.
If you are going to use melamine, find a production shop with CNC equipment and order your parts cut, banded, drilled, and grooved, and delivered to you on a pallet. There is no future for the small shop guy in buying full sheets of melamine. I bought about 40 sheets once and did my first kitchen out of them on my unisaw. Stupid.
I suppose if I were made of money I would order up a bunch of shop plywood laid up with white cabinet liner on both sides, and I'd make my dream kitchen out of that. Looks like melamine, cleans up like melamine, but it's way more durable. And expensive.
When I made cabinets I always joined the boxes with confirmat screws. They are very rugged and if you are busting boxes apart then something is very wrong.
A lot of moisture under the sink will ruin a melamine cabinet fairly quicky.
Otherwise it's a good product and I'd probably choose it over that shiny Novaply stuff.
Anytime I'm given the leeway when putting in a PB base cab, as in a rental or what have you, I like to put a 3/4 inch strip of pressure treated around the base to hopefully add some time to the life of the cabinet.
be for what it's worth
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song.
Although I'm not a big fan of PB cabs, reality is I install them far more often than not. They have a tendency to be flimsy and the cheap plastic cornerblocks will rip out their staples in a heartbeat if you're not really careful.
And there is the water issue. When I do a bath renovation with PB cabs, I usually take a scrap of vinyl flooring and staple it to the cabinet bottom. It helps prevent water damage, and if done with a scap that the bathroom flooring was covered with, it adds a custom touch. Granted, a fairly light touch...
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I think if I ever get off my azz and finish my kitcern, I get me one of those resturant stainless sink table.
I'm not a fan of PB because of my experiences doing trim repairs in bathrooms & kitchens.
DW's family has an apartment in Israel, within the Sharon Valley. High humidity. It was up to me to decide on the new cabinets when they were due to replacement.
EVERYONE supplies PB for cabinet bases there. My agent there and I went crazy finding plywood, because I knew the humidity would make the stuff swell. Finally got them, though, and at no extra charge.
Now, in my kitchen in Vancouver, I might not be concerned - but given the chance, I'll take plywood.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
what's PB?
short for particle board
Well, that's a great big 'duh' on my part.
Thx.
don't feel too bad...your not alone ;)
Pretty Bad...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
or Pretty Basic maybe?
First thought was that it meant Pre Built, but that did not make sense.
Then I just couldn't shove Pre Built out of my mind to make room for the obvious. lol.
Our local country yard is finally carrying screws specifically made for PB. Years ago, when I first asked about PB screws they gave me a look like I was from another planet. Asked about getting hanger nails, they said that hereabouts the carps use roofing nails for that...
Gene
I like PB boxes/cabinets for some applications and not for others, yea yea, that really dont tell you a whole lot does it!
I build PB cabinents with conformat screws and they will hold up fine, if you are breaking them apart then maybe you should be living out in a barn.
One other thing I do with PB sink bases is use the goo glue(white glue for melamine) and smear it on the butt edges before putting the box together, makes water less likely to penetrate.
The thing that I like most about melamine boxes is their clean up, cant beat it.
And as you already know, not all melamine is created equal. That stuff from the big box store aint the same as the good stuff!
Doug
"if you are breaking them apart then maybe you should be living out in a barn."
ROAR!!
best answer yet...
A few yrs ago I removed my PB kitchen cabs(about 12 yrs old then) to repaint, new floor and CT's. Like many have said, most of the bottom edges had turned into maypo. Never had any floods in there, so it was a result of my DW just washing the floor over the yrs. My new cabs are all ply construction and I sealed all the bottom edges prior to install.
My baths have PB cabs too and the skin is peeling of the sides...and I use a serious exhaust fan btw
you finally got those cabs in???
how'd the cab clamps work out...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
whadya mean "finally"? I'm still waiting for you to come back and help<G>
The clamps were the cats azz!! Had to fudge a little here and there and then figured out that by also clamping a straight edge to the faces of multiple boxes, I could square everything up perfectly. Real easy to make a horse shoe out of boxes without trying to. Now that I'm finished with them, I thought of ebaying or posting them here, but decided to keep them instead. Ya never know if I'll need them again.
Hey...I'm a pro now, right?...not ;)
you get rid of tools after one use...
turn in yur man card...
I should hope so...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 9/11/2006 1:28 am by IMERC
Ouch...guess I deserved that
what was I thinking...
maybe it was you weren't....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
most likely cuz I usually try to avoid anything that requires alot of effort...
Gene,
When I did my house last year I searched for cabinet maker that used plywood, found a local guy who even had great pricing.
While looking at new houses to get ideas for mine, I hated opening cabinet doors and seeing white. just looked cheap to me.
I've also seen PB cabinets at friends' houses that have peeling paper and severe sags in the shelves.
Also very glad I didn't have PB boxes on mine last week. My inlaws were over watching my kids so the DW and I could go to a movie. When I got home, the kettle was boiling, pointed under the side cabinet, almost empty, and the hood wasn't turned on. Seems she went outside about 45 min to an hour before and forgot about it. No damage, I was a little surprised.
I also sell Office furniture. If its melamine, and less that an 1" thick industrial grade stuff, it will blow apart the first time a customer decides to drag it across the room.