Take a look at the attached pics. What will the handrail look like for this set of winders? Keep in mind that this is an affordable house. The idea is that the rake wall just gets a simple cap board with some kind of newel post at the bottom end. The straight steps and winders are to be carpeted. Generally, we are on IRC 2003.
If someone had a pic of something pretty similar it would be great.
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How about nothing on the "outside" of the curve, the only thing on the inside a newel followed by a straight rail up.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Thanks for the response Gene.
>> How about nothing on the "outside" of the curve << Maybe I shoulda stated that. I thought it was a given...
>> only thing on the inside a newel followed by a straight rail up. << Actually - that was the suggestion I had from another builder, and it is what is shown on the plans. Doesn't seem quite right to me though - although I have no other workable ideas.... Maybe a turnout or something... ???
Here's what mine looks like. Not quite the same bottom step as yours though.
Ugh that hand rail should have been curved at the lower end. Looks like the recent stock market.
How tactfully put.BruceT
Thoughts?
IRC allows you to stop the handrail at newels, so you could just run both flights of straight rail into the newel and call it good. Of course IRC doesn't allow the narrow treads you have there so maybe you're not worried about code compliance?
I've seen one very steep winder with a vertical grab bar mounted on the newel.
>> IRC allows you to stop the handrail at newels, so you could just run both flights of straight rail into the newel and call it good. << Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that looking from the top (plan view) the 2 rail sections would form an 'L' ? When you say both flights... I thoughts in order to be considered 2 flights they had to be separated with a landing (square step)? Not sure though... Also the bottom winder step doesn't protrude or anything so I'm confused a bit. That's why I raised the Q though. We are allowed to have the handrail interrupted at a transition in the steps. Also, although our code does say "a continuous handrail" or similar, none of the enforcment jurisdictions I build in really enforce that the the letter.
>> Of course IRC doesn't allow the narrow treads you have there so maybe you're not worried about code compliance? << NC has modified the IRC and among a number of other things, the minimum winder width is 4". The steps themselves are NC code compliant. OTOH, You betchya I'm concerned about compliance. This is the kind of thing that wouldn't be flagged until the house is complete (CO inspection), which usually ends up being 2 or 3 days before the closing date (it's a presale house).
>> I've seen one very steep winder with a vertical grab bar mounted on the newel. << That's an interesting idea, but again I'm as interested in passing inspection as anything.
I see why you're confused--I didn't look at your first post closely enough! I did mean an "L" arrangement, but you would just start with the newel. And it looks like your treads are code-compliant. Time for glasses I guess.
IRC 2003 doesn't list special provisions for winders, other than they want the narrow end of treads to be 6", and 10" wide at a point 12" in from the narrow end. They say you can interrupt the rail at a newel (they don't say "landing"), and that the newel or a turnout has to be at the bottom stair.
It would be easy to ask the inspector, or to add a railing on the outside wall, or to add a vertical grab bar (think bathroom grab bar made out of wood). Or if you fail, ask the inspector to show you in the code book exactly where this is spec'd (that usually goes over well ;-/)
Yeah, I seldom run across inspectors who really understand the codes. (lord knows I sure don't !!!!) And I see an awful lot of glaring code violations that seem to just breeze right through inspections with nary a hitch. It varies from inspector to inspector ( and who's pocket their hand is in I suspect)
If you're worried about the "continuous handrail" issue, you could always throw a handrail along the wall like this one :
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn45/werewoof28/sxsw114-1.jpg
"If I were a carpenter"
Edited 10/4/2008 3:09 pm ET by Mark
Edited 10/4/2008 3:10 pm ET by Mark
Edited 10/4/2008 3:11 pm ET by Mark
>> Yeah, I seldom run across inspectors who really understand the codes. <<
I've at least partially befriended one BI here by helping him find stuff in the code book... Most of ours are pretty knowledgeable though.
Funny story though. Another builder building in the same neighborhood as I told me this on Friday: He was shocked when he got a foundation/floor system rejection with 5 items cited. He got the item list via the phone (it is documented in the Inspections Department computer) from the inspections office as there was no pink slip in the permit box. By builder buddy called the BI and (amazingly) the BI came right over. Turned out that BI had inspected the wrong house - or at least rejected the wrong house. HfH had a floor system a few blocks down on the same street. That was the one with the 5 violations. The BI had just brought up the wrong house in the computer and typed in the violations... hehehe... Maybe I laughed too loud when my builder buddy was telling me the story... :-)
BTW - Anyone else have a comment on the initial question? Railing for winders?
Bump....
This is still an outstanding issue... I got a few ideas above... Anyone else? Rough-ins are complete but the house is not sheetrocked yet. If something needs to be modified, now is the time. I will ask the BI if I am there when he comes for the framing inspection.... if... Hard to know when he might show up. Once I get the house rocked though, changes will be difficult at best... Also, I plan to get a trim carp over there to look at it once I decide who it will be who does the house... Might be better than raising a red flag with the BI... Plus, I may not get the same BI for the final
Here's a simple copper pipe railing with a projecting grab. Definitely affordable. If you want to get it cheaper we've figured a way to sleeve electrical conduit to run the straights and just use the copper for elbows and end caps. Th fasten the elbows to the post you cut and drill ears in a straight piece of pipe on the side away from the post and use the ears to draw the clean cut side of the pipe tight to the face of the wood. If you put the ears on the post side you won't get a tight enough connection and it will wobble. Use three heavy screws, three inch Tapcons are good as kids will hang on it. the elbows connect together with Allen head set screws or small black Philips pan heads, no solder, no glue. We make a drilling jig to do the diagonal boring for the running pipes, 6" max gap in our code here in NC for diagonal and horizontal runs, 4" for vertical balusters. We often use a larger pipe for the top rail. 1 1/2" over 1 1/4" or 2" over 1 1/2" is a nice look. If your inspector needs it to be continuous you can just run it past the post turn 90 degrees to horiz. then 90 again to vertical in front of the post and through a tee which is attached to the post down to a lower elbow which kills it into the post. Don't allow any exposed stubs that could snag a shirt sleeve. m
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
What Gene said in post 2.