does anyone have suggestions for window guards for children? The windows in question are casement and low to the floor. We have two small children and need something but the only things I’ve found look like prison bars. After spending several years building our dream house is this the only option?
Teach them to sta y away!
I know this sounds harse, but I was also taught not to put my fingers in a plug socket.
Edited 7/24/2008 2:14 pm ET by frammer52
Let em fall out once. They'll never do it again.
I remember when I was a kid, I had low window sills in my bedroom. My mom told me I'd be hurt real bad if I fell out. So I was careful around the windows. No big deal...
Of course these days, your neighbors will probably call DFS. It's all about the children, now, you know...
LOL, When I was growing up, the windows in my bedroom would not have qualified as egress. I had to climb up on a table to get out on the roof to throw the frisbee!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>> I was also taught not to put my fingers in a plug socket. << I'm gonna make an assumption of how you were taught. BTW - sis that how you got the Albert Einstein hairdo?
I guess I was a smarter kid than you. I plugged in a carefully bent paper clip. It was exciting. :-) Soon we are going to have to start with those child proof receptacles. I say let natural selection take's course. :-)
What about those security screws that you basically just screw the windows shut with. They have an unusual head on the screw and come with a special key (tool) for removing the screw. Or how about somehow making it so the windows would only open a few inches? Or, how about simply removing the crank handles (I assume) and storing them where only the "big people" can get them.
I'm assuming these are crank out casements with inside screens? Can you somehow just add a couple of metal rods to the screen assembly to make it a bit less penetrable?
BTW - Eric Clapton wouldn't think this discussion was funny. :-)
Edited 7/26/2008 6:27 pm ET by Matt
A little juice never hurt anyone!!
speaking of juice... is it beer-thirty yet?
It would be here if I drank, but since I don't, I will raise my can of coke zero to ya!
Edited 7/26/2008 6:35 pm ET by frammer52
I plugged my cap gun into an empty light socket. That was fun. Of course, it was a metal gun without the pink paint on the end of the barrel.
If we protect our children too much, then they never learn to think about consequences of their actions. This is why we have some many "funny" videos of people engaging in extreme sports. They do not think any thing can go wrong.
" I was also taught not to put my fingers in a plug socket."
My mom never taught me that. I had too learn the hard way.
Must not have bothered me too much cause I still dont bother to turn off the circuit breaker half the time when I am ripping electrical stuff apart but I rememember it scared the begeebers out of me when I stuck that key in there.
"My mom never taught me that. I had too learn the hard way."I was caught putting a bobbypin in a receptacle and promised that I would not go that again.A few days latter my mother heard me making noise.I had my hand over my mouth trying to keep from crying. She thought that I had swallowed someting and was choking on it. So she kept grabbing my hand and pulling it away.Turns out that I had burned by hand on a bobbypin in a receptacle.She asked why I did that after I promised not to.Said that was for a different receptacle. She had to go around and point out each one and said that they would do the same thing.Just an early attempt at a homemade wiggly tester..
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I was a motor head before i found the construction industry.
i took a key, stuck it in the ignition to start my new race car and the sparks jumped about 5 feet. (well ok, I was young and maybe it was only a little spark but burnt my finger just the same) It sure did look kinda like an ignition switch and I could put my feet on the wall for foot pedals and just lean forward to start er up. Life is boring now. We are supposed to put those safety covers on the outlets for our toddlers. No wonder kids are staying away from the industry. We are squashing their curiosity.
I guess I learned a healthy respect for electricity that day. Maybe that was the jolt that got me into the industry!?!?!
Teaching your child not to pitch through the window is a great idea. But for those of us in the real world who are exhausted by the constant vigilance required to teach toddlers not to do something and would like to be able to walk out of the room to go to the bathroom or whatever, there are options. Instead of permanent window bars, you might consider the portable fencing systems offered to keep children away from something, such as fireplaces, windows, kitchens in an open floor plan, etc. These have the ability to be put up and then removed when your children are old enough.
Bungee cord and harness anchored to the center point in each room.
Only way you can turn your back on them for a micro second.
Only last untill they learn the Houdini trick for getting out of the harness.
They use to put little ones in long night shirts and set a table or bed leg on the shirt tail <g>
BTW, I like you solution.
I still say let the little brat fall out. God made you so that you can always make more... 2 generations of kids growing up so overprotected and treated like precious little treasures is probably the main reason why this country is going down the drain.
I know that was tongue and cheek,..you just forgot the <g>.
Ever buried a child ?
I buried two last night... They were playing hide and seek in my yard and hindering my beauty rest.
A little over the top!
Yes I have burried 2, what of it?
So, did they fall out of a wimdow?
You statement would indicate that your loss qualifies you to tell someone that loosing a child through negligence on their part is no big deal.
The OP ask for some suggestions to safeguard his children from what he sees as a potential danger.
He gets a few few good suggestions, and then a bunch of side remarks about how wimpy kids are, because they are over protected.
I'm not trying to start a wizzing match with anyone.
All I was trying to do was point out that some of our attempts at humor here may be a little hard to see unless pointed out with a <g>, :), or such.
If it is humor, I will post with a <G> as I always do.
It just irritates me that chilren are not being taught, the are protected.
It just irritates me that chilren are not being taught, the are protected.
Couldn't agree more.
This community has had three smal children killed in the last two weeks. The first was a two year old that was struck in the chest by his 5 yo sister while she was taking practice swings before T-ball. The second were two little girls killed by a guy that decided to run from the police after he was stopped for a traffic violation. Sleezbag had a record of 79 arrest, some of them for evading. They showed him on the news as he was being brought back to a squad car after a foot pursuite. S*B was laughing like it was a big game to him.
We had better be careful they will put us in the tavern!
How low to the floor?
And of this is your 'dream house' how did it come to be designed with windows too low?
Are you concerned that they will fall out or that they will break the windows? I need to understand the concern basis and identify just what the problem is before coming up with a solution to the problem
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
Excellence is its own reward!
After a police career people started asking for window guards. I made them but they were always mounted outside. As I recall any glass within 18" of the floor has to be safety glass. Then my Mom wanted a door for security but also could not stand the look of bars. So I designed up all kinds of doors that provided security but did not look like bars. They started out as a solid piece of 3/16" steel plate that fit within 1"X2" tubular frames. Once the design was cut they looked great and the plate was considerably lighter.
I have installed Lexan mounted in storm window frames on some rental houses located in areas where a "dream house" would never be built.
Assuming the casements crank out normally (I don't know the height but wonder with others why they are so low) I would have a frame fabricated that would hold Lexan close to the wall at the sill (still have to crank it open remember) and then up at an angle so when the window is open you get some ventilation. Ideally, the Lexan would slide into the fabricated support channels on either of the window and could slide out when pulled by an adult. One locking screw (hex head self drilling) would thwart a kids attempt to slide it out "just like Dad". Lot of words to describe but easy to make for any welder.
(If you really wanted to be clever the frame could be built so it would fasten into "keepers" either side of the window. Look at a modern sliding kid gate that can be removed from the wall for how this is done. Whew! Gotta rest these fingers! Tyr
If you live near a big city, check any hardware store They sell hundreds of them as usually the law requires them for homes with the little imps. The ones I've seen, are made of wire mesh and are not security bars that you mentioned.
I believe that you can get limiters from the window company or Truth Hardware that makes the cranks so the window won't open more than 4" they are required in some areas where there is a traffic pattern outside the window to prevent people from walking into the open window, obviously not if the window is required for egress.
You may also be able to improvise something by driving a pan head screw in the scissor mechanism to prevent it from opening more than 4"
you will probably need to pry off the cover to accomplish this.
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
After reading through the post, no one seemed to mention the obvious reason for a window limiter (it may be required by Code); if the window opening is less than 16 inches from the floor, and the outside distance from bottom of the window to the ground level is more than 6ft., window travel must be limited to 4" or less according to R613.2 or have an approved window guard that complies with ASTM F2006 or F 2090.
>> window travel must be limited to 4" or less according to R613.2 <<
You got my interest so I went and looked it up. We use IRC2003 and R613.2 doesn't say anything about that. Maybe you are on IRC2006 or something? Or, maybe it's something that your state added?
2006 IRC, R613.2 Window Sills. I had used some Andersen 2852 (?) as egress in an old farm house with low ceilings on the second floor bedrooms. They were 18 inches above the floor and the BI shot them down. I had to replace them with a wider, higher window. They looked like heck but luckily the HO was understanding. The BI says there is no way to limit a window to four inches of travel and still use it as an egress. The window has to open without the use of a tool. The Andersen Rep told me he never hear of it being enforced. I have a good rapport with the County Inspectors, so they were not just busting my chops.
I install 2-8x5-2s all the time - on the 2nd floor. It's pretty much our standard window size. I'd have to measure the sill height but some quick math - 6'8" header height minus 5'2" = 18". Never heard of it. Like I said though we are IRC2003 though.
My last two sets of prints submitted to the inspection department came back with the stamp about the 2006 IRC R613.2 Definitely 2006. Awhile back I posted about any kind of guard or lock that would allow me to use the 2852 but no luck.
I know you said it was a remodel... but... a higher header height like maybe 6'10" would make it work. ~6'10" works out well if you are using 2x10 headers and then you pack it down with two 2x4s (or 2x6s).
The house was built in 1880 and was a post and beam type construction. The main beam was a 4x8 and the ceiling hight was 7 ft. or less to begin with. I was using the original openings. Only one window in each room had to be an egress so I had a window in each bedroom that did not match the others.