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window installation input requested

| Posted in Construction Techniques on June 6, 2003 07:53am

Working on a 100-year old cottage remodel in beautiful San Diego, CA…

Exterior walls are 1 1/4″ thick all around – cedar plank sandwiched between cementboard(?) inside and cement(?) tile outside.

Could you all offer your best design advice for fitting and trimming standard vinyl windows (customer’s request) into openings in such walls?  The approach would include salvaging the tile on the outside, cutting opening, install window, flash/weatherseal, probably trimming out with 1x and installing tile cutoffs to complete.  But how to best approach the interior???  Just use the metal edge trim (cornerbead-like side for the wall and 3/4″ clean face under the window) installed prior to window installation?  Sand the surrounding paint and finish like drywall?

When cutting through these walls with a sawzall to install pipe and dryer vent, the plank tended to split…

I’m hesitant to seal around the window with expanding foam because I’m afraid that it might tweak the frame…

Thanx,

brian

:-)>

P.S.  This place is toxic, for me anyway.  I’ve been experiencing extreme headaches nightly since I started working on this project last week.  Just realized today it’s the work site (didn’t make it out the door before the headache came on). 

Reply

Replies

  1. nino | Jun 06, 2003 08:40am | #1

    If you're stuck having to use vinyl windows, why not install replacements inside the existing frames? You do have other choices besides vinyl as Marvin and another company (whose name escapes me at the moment) make wood replacement windows that fit inside of existing frames.

    By installing the windows this way, you don't touch the exterior of the house at all and only minimally disturb the interior.

  2. nino | Jun 06, 2003 08:45am | #2

    I just noticed that you mention cutting new openings. If that's the case, you will need to carefully strip the siding material off in order to give you the proper area to cut the rough opening and in order to be able to use it over again.

    As an alternative, you can carefully cut back the siding 1 1/2 to 2 inches larger than your R.O. and use a special trim to cover over the siding and finish off the exterior of the window. You can also make your own by either undercutting exterior plastic trim or using a combination of wood and trim to build out the window frame and cover the edge of the siding.



    Edited 6/6/2003 1:47:11 AM ET by nino

  3. NathanW | Jun 06, 2003 09:05am | #3

    Hmmm...old cement tile....very well could be asbestos based.

    What exactly do you mean by saying the wall thickness is 1 3/4"? Is this from inside face of finish wall to outside face of finish? Never heard of cedar plank on edge laid up as a structural material, and can't imagine it being so. Could you clarify? This wall thickness is about as thick as the vinyl frame itself, so you'd have zero jambs with teh interior cement abutting the vinyl window...doesn't make sense to me...but then it was 90 degrees up here today...and that doesn't happen very often and I'm a little dizzy still.

    As for cutting holes in the stuff, try a jigsaw, or better yet, a holesaw of the correct diameter. Even if this stuff you're cutting through is just cement, you'll want some respirator protection from the dust.

    Figure out what is giving you the headaches, bro. That sounds pretty doggone serious. I heard someone say that if you can smell it...it's hurting you. If it's giving you screaming headaches...not only is it hurting you, it's yelling at you as it does it! Take care of yourself, I'm sure there are many people in your life who'd like to have you around with your faculties functioning for a while...

    Nathan

  4. Piffin | Jun 06, 2003 02:51pm | #4

    For a plank wall like this, you might need to treat it like a log construction, cutting back a larger openning and glueing/dadoing in a spline to stabilize where you weaken the wall with the openning.

    Any way to see how the older existing opennings were formed?

    I've worked some older plank style hoimes. Some are built like a tank and others are flimsy from lack of forethought in erecting them. Seems like not all erectors were skilled back then either. Every generation has it's DIYs Make sure of what you are doing before you do it or you could end up rebuilding the whole wall.

    by that I mean to say that in some aspects, a plank wall is similar to a roof truss. It is a unit rather than an assembly of components. A hole can destroy the integrity of the unit.

    .

    Excellence is its own reward!



    Edited 6/6/2003 7:53:46 AM ET by piffin

    1. nino | Jun 07, 2003 09:28am | #5

      You feel that he's talking about a plank wall?

      I got the impression that he's talking about a stud framed wall with gypsum sheathing that was sided with cedar and that was resided with cement tile. How else would you explain that the wall is 1 1/4 inch thick?

      I only bring this up because I ran into a similar situation yesterday installing a front door.

      1. Piffin | Jun 07, 2003 02:32pm | #6

        Maybe we'll know if he ever comes back to join the discussion he started.

        most plank walls are 2-1/4" thick but I reasoned that it might still be done with plank in southern Calif. The way you describe would be over five inches thick because of stud thickness..

        Excellence is its own reward!

        1. FastEddie1 | Jun 09, 2003 03:42pm | #7

          If the studs are exposed on the inside, then the wall could be thin.  If it is framed normally, then the planks and ext siding installed continuously on the outside and the interior siding cut to fit between the studs...seems like a lot of work.Do it right, or do it twice.

          1. Piffin | Jun 09, 2003 08:55pm | #8

            Right, but we all tend to get lost with too many ifs if the originator doesn't come join us again..

            Excellence is its own reward!

        2. nino | Jun 10, 2003 09:25am | #10

          I meant that the total thickness of the siding was 1 1/4 inches thick.  I believe he mentions the "frame" in his question.

  5. dtaylor137 | Jun 10, 2003 01:47am | #9

    Can't you just tirm it like normal with returns to the wall under the trim?

  6. brianspages | Jun 14, 2003 09:41am | #11

    Sorry guys.  I had to drop the discussion.  The headaches continued into the following week.  One night of full sleep in two weeks (I popped 4 aspirin before going to sleep that night).  I'm sensitive to formaldehyde and they used to treat lumber with it for insect control.  This place's lumber must have been treated with it.   Same thing happens when I sleep on new bedding. 

    Back now...

    1X12 cedar planks running full length from sole plate to rafter...  No studs. Zip. Nada.  Only stud wall is 2 1/2" wide running east to west for 8' perpendicular to another cedar plank wall that is located under and supports the ridge beam.  No collar ties visible in the kitchen (cathedral ceiling) but apparently used over the bathroom and living room (flat ceilings).  No posts used in the corners.  single 2x4 top plates on east and west walls.  Ridge beam running north to south.  2x4 rafters.  Overall dimensions of the entire structure approximate 12' x 14'.  Total wall thickness is 1/4" shingle + roofing felt + 3/4" - 1" (varies) cedar plank + 1/4" 'wallboard' = 1 1/4".

    I don't know or understand how this place has stood for 100 years, but she's there.  An interesting study, considering some of the framing discussions concerning what overkill is when it comes down to erecting a home. 

    "cement board" shingles likely to be asbestos.  Not obtainable.  Owner approved use of hardibacker cut to size for shingle replacement.  Interior walls are some kind of 1/4" gypsum/cement/?. 

    Dust masks. Yes...

    I intend to trim around the window on the outside.  on the inside i will hve to build out from the wall about 1/2".  How to do this with some sensible carpentry and aesthetic appeal...

    piffin.  Has what I have described match up with what you were envisioning when you made your recommendation?

    brian

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