Has this been asked as many times as, “whats the black diamonds on a tape measure for”? I’ve heard different people with different answers to this one. What does the plate you set your windows on “have to be”…a single, or dbl. Does the size of the window make a difference. I’ve done plenty of dbl plates but I over do things quite a bit of the time….but for the most part I do single plates. Whats the code for this where you live and what do you do? Here’s a few windows we made and installed last week(Dbl plates btw)…among other things like the cherry flooring etc etc…and you can see the timber frame garden room I built outside the windows in the background : ) edit: Wow…this software resized my photo for me and you can click it to make it larger..cool…
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Learn how to fight wood-boring beetles and prevent home infestations with expert advice from Richard D. Kramer, an authority in pest control.
Featured Video
Builder’s Advocate: An Interview With ViewrailHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
usually the diamonds are the stud centers, I think ... 16, 32, 48, etc. Some may have them for the 'new' centers, maybe ... the 19.2" centers for e.g. engineered floor joists. I don't understand it/can't 'splain it, but it's on the joist charts.
The black diamonds are centers; 12", 16", 19.2", 24", etc. 5 spaces at 19.2" comes to 96" (8 ft.) for standard 4x8 panels. The sheathing or decking must have the proper thickness to span the 19.2". This spacing as far as I can tell never really caught on.
Jim H
Oups, I see now that nobody was asking what the black diamonds are for, just that it is a common question. Gotta read the post more carefully.
Jim H
This new format is terible. Maybe I will figure it out soon. But maybe not. Maybe I will get tired of it soon.
Jim H
So terrible I almost didn't
So terrible I almost didn't post that...and it took a good while before anyone answered the question unlike in the good ol' Prospero format daze.
Don't forget the boycott
Don't forget the boycott Monday thru Wed next week.
single plates should always be plenty. But never say 'always'. :)
You over do things quite a bit. That is a matter of perspective. Over do in one aspect means under do in another. I consider the double plate under do ... as it is a detriment from an energy perspective. It's all in the perspective. :)
I often consider beefy headers over all windows as underdone. I installed my windows in non bearing walls w/ a standard flat frame config (2x6 flat like in the sill) ... but I tend to 'over do' things, too. :)
I always thought a under window double plate was just something more to nail trim to. I never do it, just more labor, material and one less place for insulation to be.
I only put in one, and that's
I only put in one, and that's what I usually see in remodels. Can't see any real use in two of em.
Hey Andy, there's help in the
Hey Andy, there's help in the shallow end too. I know you know how to get there, and you have plenty of friends there..........'
I always did singles till some a hole BI said they need to be doubles.
Again...you need to have someone spec it if you are not sure. If you can't do that, then take the high road.
CYA!!!
The plans I had for the additions I put on my own houses never had a dbl plate in the specs so my guess is...in my neck of the woods it ain't code.
I also have been passing/watching a house they've been building on my way to my gig I've been doing and I didn't see any dbls.
Interestingly...I don't think I ever heard this issue ever discussed here in the decade+ I've been here.
BTW...I ain't interested in going over to Dino's site if thats whatcha mean by the shallow end....but I appreciate the invite bro.
I'll wait till this place gets rollin' again which I'm pretty sure in time it will...and in the meantime I'll stay in the Backroom or jump over to Calvin's site if I ever feel the need.
Problem with Dino's site is...he claims it's just a place to hold you all over yet he never visits this place where it all started.
I find that offensive personally.
Give this place a chance and a little help like you would a cripple : )
Be well brother.
andy
Hey Andy, doubles are what I always see in anything new around here. I mostly work on mid 19th century stuff, and they often have no rough sill at all, just a stud in the middle of the window that the actual window itself sits on.
There is no structural reason for a subsill at all. The load is diverted around the window via the header.
That said, I do doubles just because that's the way it's done nowadays, and also because I'm usually doing fairly wide trim and it's useful for nailing.
Dino's site is OK. It's just a clone of the old site here. Kind of an insular experience though. I'm a little dispirited about here. The traffic has dropped off so much that it's not nearly as useful for getting a quick read on something. Threads get responded to very slowly and die very quickly. Doesn't speak well to the ease of navigation.
Steve
Problem with Dino's site
Problem with Dino's site is...he claims it's just a place to hold you all over yet he never visits this place where it all started.
I find that offensive personally
I don't get that..........maybe cause he's on dial-up.
NEVER heard of a BI REQUIRING a double plate in normal construction (VERY large windows might be an exception, but I'v not seen many instances of that). But I have seen a few a hole inspectors in my day. ;)
I've had it required.
I've had it required. Youngins usually. Same guy thet TRIED to tell me I needed to have a box beam on a 2x4 top plate to catch the ends of the joists.......spained it out to him......kinda put his tail between........he was brand new.
Actually worked with him many times after that. He was a good guy and was not afraid to learn or in some cases teach.
Thanks for posting those photos. VERY nice work.
I like insulation and detail headers as made from 1.25" LSL rimboard stock. What works is to use either 3" foamboard, available in big markets from EIFS jobbers, as the core, or use two layers, one 2" and one 1". The total sandwich comes to the right number of 5.5 inches.
No plates. Top or bottom.
A piece of OSB laid on sawhorses with two 2x6s screwed on like an oversized framing square works as the jig for laying up a whole houseful of headers. Index the LSL and foam sandwich in place, then impact-drive some 5" screws through everything, overdriving a little to deepen the purchase.
With LSL rim available in widths up to 16 inches, you can run most headers from RO all the way to top, and not need cripples.
Takes some labor to rip the LSL, and to screw rather than nail, but overall there are less pieces of stock to cut, and there's all the nailing you need.
Plus better insulation, and a complete thermal break (except for them screws.)
Pretty interesting concept Gene...did you come up with that idea?
Any photos per chance?
Andy, it is a spin off from something that used to be offered by TrusJoist. What they had, the "insulated header," was a factory-made sandwich, sold in 17.5-foot lengths, in a few different depths matching their LSL lumber offering.
High priced, they did not sell many, and discontinued the product. Their claim was that the product had a "lower installed cost" than the site-built alternative.
In the midwest, a factory-insulated header is made and sold by Superior Wood Products, a Wisconsin company. More like an I-joist with 2x4 or 2x6 flanges, and two webs, with rigid foam in the sandwich.
I thought it interesting that so many of these were used by the Amish crews, the gangs that did 95 percent of all framing in the northern half of Indiana. They realized the "installed cost" premise, and the had a strong influence on the lumber orders. Many builders deferred all lumber ordering to their framer subs, and the framer sub ordered what made most sense to him for efficiency.
I found this out when I owner-built for myself and hired the framing to, who else, "Bontrager Builders." If you know midwestern Amish, you know that there are only about a dozen surnames in the entire population of them. Yoder, Bontrager, Schwartz, . . .
Anyhow, when they said, "you don't need to order the lumber, we always do it, just like all the crews," I let them. I wadded up my stick-by-stick takeoff, and thought, "we'll see how this goes."
It went perfectly.
Nailing? It's all there. All over.
Gene..took me a second..I was thinking..a 6" header?
Then I realized you mean for s 6" wall..duh. Around here not too many people are framing w/2x6's.
My 1st and 2nd house I did frame w/2x6's but the last two? Nope. No one I know will pay for that in spite of the energy savings. Same with Icynene insulation.
I hopefully have a very big job coming up I spec'd w/Icynene and they asked me to switch to fiberglass b/c of the cost.
I think LI is very different than other areas of the country.
Yep Andy, people here are short sighted on insulation.
I watched these big azz monster homes get built in my neighborhood about 8 years ago. $500K to $700K. All with 2-plus story vaulted entries and great-rooms. All with bare minimum fiberglass insulation. Now they are wondering why they can't afford the gas or oil bills to keep the kids warm.
I've never seen or heard of
I've never seen or heard of anything other than a single.
But since some are saying they've seen doubles, maybe it's another one of those regional things?