Yet another thread on windows. Sorry.
We are replacing some fixed sash, real divided light windows in our Maine cabin with double hung. We like the divided light look. Snap-in grilles are out of the question. Weather and energy efficiency are a concern (coastal Maine). We are looking at Andersen, to begin with. Their solution (fake muntins applied inside and out, spacer in between) is not too bad (aesthetically) but the joinery on the sample we saw at HD was terrible: very visible gap where the “muntin” joined the frame of the sash. So, first question: is this typical of Andersen “divided light ” windows? The sample we saw was the supposedly “400” level top-of-the line.
On to the second question: how about authentic divided light, wood windows, with storms? I hear, from time to time, on BT, someone saying that the wood window plus storm window pairing is as energy efficient as a modern window with insulated glass, etc.
My wife thinks storms are a bad idea. I have several years of ladder activity left in me, but not an unlimited number of such years, if you catch my drift.
Replies
Yep, your observations about Anderson's poor joinery are correct. These details are typical of all new "high-end" window mfrs. We looked at Marvin TDLs as the last hope for getting an acceptable quality replacement window for our house and decided that they, too, looked cheap.
So we found a shop somewhat near to us that custom built replacement wood sashes to our exact dimensions and specifications, were able to reuse our orginal 100 year old glass, and haven't looked back.
I will testify that I feel strongly that "old-fashioned" single glazed wood DH windows, well weatherstripped, AND when installed as a SYSTEM with tightly sealed removeable storm windows, will cost you less than half of what good "quality" replacement windows would and will net you at least as much energy savings. Our window project has taken SO MUCH MORE work than cheap-o replacement windows, and we don't regret it for a minute. Our house has the nicest windows in town, I'm sure. Something the wifey and I are very proud of.
Our storm window sashes are hung from the top with the old fashioned clips (google: storm window hangers). We do not remove them in the summer because at the bottom we have installed adjuster arms (google: storm window adjusters) that will hold them open securely. When I do have to take the storms down for maintenance, I can usually wrestle them from inside the house (no ladders...). But of course, I am still fairly young and spry.
One thing you might want to consider is mounting the storms on the interior. I did this at my house after remembering my father cursing his way up and down a ladder twice a year. I rebated the storm sash so the inside face was flush with the inside face of the trim, put a gasket around the perimeter, stained & varnished to match the rest of the woodwork, & it's nice & toasty.And the only ladder I need is a 4 foot stepladder.Works like a charm.K
Count me one vote against interior storms.The storm windows serve an eponymous purpose: They protect your main windows from the weather. All of that wind-driven water, snow, ice, and hail? I'd prefer to have all of that attacking my storm sashes first, leaving my pristinely restored primaries alone.
Going to all of the effort for a non-standard install to jury-rig an interior storm? Jeez, how hard is it really to climb up and down a ladder? Like I said before, I can get mine on and off from inside of the house anyway. No big deal.I've never seen interior storm windows before in this area (midwest). One thing I've learned about old systems in old houses: They did it that way for a reason, and they knew what they were doing. My house had exterior hung storm windows, I restored 'em that way, and they work better for keeping out water, air, cold, and heat better than I ever imagined...
I have original wood double hung windows on my 120 year old home. Amazingly they are in good condition. When we stripped the aluminum off our house we took off the aluminum triple track storms. We bought combination storms/screens from Adams Architectural in Iowa. They look like old-fashioned wood framed storms. The screening is on the outside of the wood frame. The glass storms inserts are installed from the inside. Nice thing about these storms is that you get on a ladder and hang them ONCE. Once they are hung you can remove and install the storm inserts from the inside of the house as the seasons chagne. When I installed the storms I put EDPM rubber gaskets underneath them the rubber gaskets makes the storms very air tight. We have noticed a substantial decrease in our gas bills since the storms have been installed. With the storms installed I can remove my old DH sashes from the inside to scrape and paint. It has worked out well for me. I would recommend Adams Architectural. The stand behind their product. I had an issue with the plastice clips that hold the storm inserts being to flimsy and breaking off. The sent me some metal clips at no charge. If you end up purchasing from them ask for the metal clips. http://www.adamsarch.comMike K
Old House Remodeler
Aurora, IL
Mike,
I wish that Adams was closer to where I live (Seattle area). I've seen their product on the web, and it does look very good. Unfortunately, long distance shipping adds a LOT to the cost for me.
I just looked at my invoice. For 34 storms I paid $5,700 including $338 for shipping. Works out to about $167 per window. I did negotiate a volume discount off the price they originally quoted me. This price included primed storms and hanging hardware. Many of my windows are very large double hungs, some over 6 feet tall. Smaller storms will be a little less.You could probably get someone to build them locally, but it might not be just as expensive. Cost of doing business in Iowa is likely very low compared to many parts of the country.If anyone is interested call Patti at 1-888-285-8120. She was great to work with.FYI, I do not work for this company. I'm recommending them because of their good service and product.