Hi All:
I’m going to be building a new home next summer. I’m trying to decide what types of communication wiring I should be considering between the various rooms. I was thinking about bundling a phone wire, coaxial wire, & cat-5 wire to a number of boxes throughout the house (multiple boxes per room). While I could buy wireless phones and a wireless router, and eliminate the need for phone and cat-5, I’d rather have the wires available. Can you get a box cover that accepts phone, coax, and cat-5? Any other wires I should be considering. Door bell wiring comes to mind, but I could go wireless there as well. Alarm system wiring (for a future alarm system)? Fibre-optic cable?
While it’s sure to happen one day, I’m trying to reduce the need to open the walls up for the next few years.
Thanks.
Richard
Replies
Telcomm boxes generally use a plate that takes keystone blocks. You can get plates for 2, 3, 4 or 6 blocks. Most wires have a keystone that goes with them. Also you only need to use the backless low voltage boxes. Just make sure your boxes mate with your cover plates before you start. There seems to be slight differences in cover plates. Getting everything from the same manufacturer is a good idea. Although phone wire is cheaper, you can just use 4 pair RJ-45 connections for phones too. But go with Cat-6 (or at least 5-e).
Some people think fiber optic will be used in homes in the future. I kinda doubt it, but they do make a combination cable with 2 Cat 6, 2 fiber optic, and 2 co-axial cables. Be sure to use the best quality connectors, such as crimp and seal for co-ax.
I ran 4 cat-6 and 2 co-ax to each box. All home run to a telcomm distribution center. I also put in stereo speakers in the walls of the bedroom, with volume controls. For that, you do have to decide where you want the stereo to be, as you have to have an "input frame", which is just a pair of posts.
Built in security system might be a good idea. Certainly, if you do it during construction, it is much less noticable.
Backless trim rings unless they're on an outside wall and then, the holes need to be sealed. The vapor barrier is broken by the ring and houses breathe when doors open and close.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Richard I vote for hardwiring. Even the door bell, then the intregal button light will work! When I did my place a few years ago I ran an RG6 Coax and two CAT6 cables to each drop, used different colors, one for the phone one for the LAN don't use CAT 3 Telco wire. Hubbel and Panduit make plates that will accept all three. Be sure and use a deep box as the COAX will need the depth for a bending radius. Some AHJ's may permit the backless box rings for this type of installation. Make a seperate home run for each location. Wireless is fine for the phone and but when the power goes out most likely your wireless phone will not work. A wireless LAN is convenient but for multiple users and security purposes I like a hard wired connection. In the office area I would run two CAT6 LAN cables and a CAT6 cable for phone as well. Cuts down on cross talk if you have mulitple lines. Probably don't need a TV COAX at each office drop but one each wall might be nice. Fiber in the home is available but kind of spendy. Roger
there is no advantage in anything higher than cat3 for phone use It doesnt hurt to use it but keep in mind the dial tone has traveled miles over cable that often wouldn't rate as cat 3 . taking it the last 100'over cat 6 isn't going to improve things
if possible I would concentrate more on getting a conduit from each location to a central point ,then you are future proof or evan conduit to a accessible attic point
the bundled stuff is expensive and will give you stuff you don't need ,
one cat 3 , one cat 5e (or 6 ) and one rg6 quad would be my choice if conduit wasn't practical (cat 3 is easier to work with for voice )
like someone else pointed out keystone plates and inserts are available to give you phone , data and CATV
I don't see a home need for fiber in the foreseeable future (it would be more cost effective to do conduit now than have a bunch of unused fiber in the wall )
you could pull alarm wire to all openings but what would you do with it until you needed it ? (I might just go ahead and put contacts on to give the impression of a alarm Evan if they weren't tied into a alarm panel , leave some slack in the attic in case you need to change them out later )
The distributor where I buy most of my wire just told me that they won't be stocking 4-pair Cat. 3 anymore. Market forces are at work, and he only pays a dollar or two more per box for the Cat 5e. It wouldn't surprise me if, in a few years, you can't find 4-pair Cat. 3. For now, 2-pair seems safe, because no one makes a Cat 5e version.
Technically, I agree with you totally. I chuckle every time a 'data' guy insists that I run Cat5e (or funnier, Cat6) for the CO side of a DSL modem. Gotta protect those bits - at least for a few feet...
Bob
I'd definitely recommend putting in a security system right off the bat...the wiring is simple when the walls are still open, plus you'll have to have smoke detectors anyway and they can be connected to the security system as well. Other accessories like a low temp detector (if the furnace quits) or even flooding detectors (in the event of a broken pipe or washer hose) are nice, too. You don't necessarily have to wire up every window in the house, a couple strategically located motion sensors can cover a large area.
A security system will usually get you a little discount on your insurance as well. Lots of people will say that a security system isn't necessary since they live in a safe neighborhood...I live in the inner city where having one is pretty much a requirement, but I've had friends and relatives who live in upscale suburbs or out in the country who've been burglarized as well. It can happen to anyone.
This topic comes up about every two months. You have several different camps:
-- Use fancy "combo" cables that include phone, computer, audio, TV, and probably Homeland Security evesdropping.
-- Pull multiple CAT5+++ cables to everywhere, plus the occasional RG6 coax for TV.
-- Install conduits everywhere, don't pull anything until you know what you want.
-- Forget it all and go wireless.
-- Forget it all and become a Unabomber.
My preference is basically for the second option, combined with a few conduits in critical locations (eg, basement to attic) to simplify future upgrades. And if you have a purpose-built home theatre room, certainly put conduit in there for the main box. (Note, however, that 120V AC power must ALWAYS be separate, in a different conduit/cable/box.)
Note that CAT5 (or CAT5e or CAT6 or whatever) works fine for telephone, and for low-level speaker applications, though it's generally not wise to use the SAME cable for multiple applications (eg, telephone and computer). But might as well use CAT5 for all low-level applications, vs pulling different cable types.
(Probably best to wire the doorbell and thermostats with the regular doorbell and thermostat wire, however, if only to avoid confusing folks.)
And always pull in one or two spares to every location. You can just leave the ends coiled up behind the wall if you wish, vs terminating them.
"Keystone" type outlets are available for many different purposes. The individual outlet connectors snap into faceplates with 1-4 openings (in a single gang plate), so you can make up any configuration you like.
As you mentioned,120V needs to be separate, but also it should be near the telcom plate. My friends just bought a house which had fancy structured cable all over the place, but the genius who wired everything put no electrical outlets anywhere nearby so things like computers, fancy phones, etc need extension cords to be used, if at all.
Just something to keep in mind. Hope this helps. Rich.
And in the computer center and home theatre areas there should be quad outlets.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
Conduit everywhere, then wire only what you need...buic
How much speed do you guys think you need to make Cat 6 necessary? I doubt that you're at the limit of distance for Cat 5e and unless you have extreme need for speed, Cat 6 is overkill in a house. 350MB/s should do fine for quite a while.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Unless you're going to do video editing or some such over the house net, 100Mb is plenty.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
That's pretty much my point. What is the connection speed and how fault tolerant does it need to be? Even if the ISPs can get the speed up to 1GB/s, why do most people need that speed? Not like DSL or cable is going to seem as slow as dial-up by comparison.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Thanks for all the replies everyone. :)
Lots of good advice and ideas to consider.
Yeah, most folks wouldn't notice the difference between 10M and 100M, especially if just surfing on a standard cable/DSL connection.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
DSL, Cable, T1 don't go that fast anyway (100MB/s), and unless soemone wants to pay big bucks for access, they won't get 10 MB/s, either. Cable broadband also has the added problem of sharing bandwidth so if the area is heavily populated with users, it's gonna be bad. DSL provides whatever speed the user pays for, as spec'd in the contract. The only place it's 100MB/s is between the computer and the hardware that supplies internet access. Sure, the network icon on the bottom of the screen shows 100MB/s but that's not upload/download speed. Go here to test yours:http://www.bandwidthplace.com/speedtest/
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hi speed is irrelevant for web browsing.LAN speed affects internal data movement, like making backups or moving music or videos from computers to the TV.I have had 10, 100 and 1000 MBsec LANs. Yes, I can tell the difference. Easily.Now whether Cat 6 over Cat 5e makes a difference, I'm not sure. Particularly with the current hardware.But one issue to keep in mind is that the speed ratings are like EPA gas mileage ratings - in a lab. In the case of wire, I think the ratings are just the wire, no connectors. And speed falls appreciably (interference increases) when it is untwisted, which you have to do to put on a connector.The cost of Cat 6 wire is only a few bucks more than 5e, so I paid it. The connectors, that ticked me off, $5 a piece.
From 10, 100 and 1000 MHz, I would hope you could tell the difference. They're two orders of magnitude apart at the extremes.There's definitely a difference when downloading but the fast speeds are great with asymetrical up/downloading systems, like DSL. $5 a piece- What kind are they, and which- jacks or plugs?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
They were Pass&Seymour keystone jacks, put I think the plugs were up there too. But that was 3 years ago too. They're cheaper now.One thing I forgot to mention for the OP, if you want security cameras, the cheapest ones need a co-ax cable run from the camera to some recording device. An old computer works well, and you can pick up the cameras and a card pretty cheap on e-bay. But you also need power at the camera, so plan your camera locations early and carefully, to make sure you have both power and an RG-6 cable.
Most of those need an RG-59 or better and a two wire, sometimes "siamesed" together. A lot faster than two separate runs. It's just composite video but if it's a long run, an amplifier is needed, too.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Oh, and I meant I could tell the difference moving from 10 to 100, and again moving from 100 to 1000. Better LAN switches help too, they control for collisions better. I finally went with a 24 port Linksys switch.
Good routers are needed, too because they take care of broadcast storms, unlike hubs, bridges and switches.Is it a switch or a hub? "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 12/29/2006 3:42 pm by highfigh
I have a router too (and a WAP) but I was referring to a specific switch, Linksys SR-2024.http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1123638180432&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
You need that in your house? That's a long link, by the way.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Amazingly enough, yeah. We use about 12 ports on an on-going basis (2 for printer, 1 for WAP, 1 for hard drive, 4 computers, two laptops, one media connection). And guests can plug in if they like.I did have two 8-port switches, but when you inter-connect them, they are really only 6 ports.
"but when you inter-connect them, they are really only 6 ports."Because of the need for an open port and the one used to connect, right?I assume (or did I read) that it has auto detect for the jumper? Allows for easier connection if there's no way to make a crossover cable."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 1/1/2007 2:26 pm by highfigh
Most modern switches/routers do have auto-detect now I think, so you don't have to specify a crossover cable. And yes, all the interconnect takes up ports, plus degrades quality.
First ethernet LAN I ever worked with was 10BT. I found that I could do file-to-file copies faster over the net than I could locally. Now granted that was awhile ago, and hard drive speeds have improved considerably since, but at 100 you're still keeping up pretty well with effective disk speed for all but massive file transfers. I'm not saying that you can't MEASURE the difference between 100 and 1000, but most folks won't notice it, and even the difference between 10 and 100 won't be noticeable in most circumstances (especially given Windoze's tendency to go off and play with itself from time to time).
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
In 1999 I thought that 32 megs of RAM and a 20 gig hard drive was plenty and it was all I would ever need. Now I have 1 gig of RAM on the computer to run programs such as ProE, Inventor, and other drawing programs. Now I read about Vista coming down the pike and it seems like that will hardly be enough.When will it all end?
I have heard that a min of 2GB of RAM is best for Vista and for everything else, bigger is better. What a freakin' surprise! Anyone want a TI 99/4A? I might be able to scare up a Commodore 32 or 64, too.In '99, a 20 GB hard drive was pretty big. I bought my desktop in Jan of '00 and it's a 14 BG. Still using it, just switched from 98 SE to XP and jumped to 720MB of RAM. OEM hard drive (yeah, I'm pushing my luck) and it started with 64MB of RAM. Unfortunately, I bought it just after the Taiwan 'quake that "destroyed the factories that make RAM". It works well again, now that my infected, addled 98SE has been wiped clean off the drive. I moved the files and folders I needed and launched the rest. Nice deal- I took a networking class at the local tech college and qualified and a student so I was able to buy a, XP on disc for $20 including shipping. I'm going to see what else I can get free (I don't really need Server 2003 but if I must download it, I must). If I did a lot with video, gaming or really processor intensive stuff on my PC, I would buy a new one but I think this one is still useful. Mostly Word, Excel, printing, 'net, some photo work, financial stuff, programming remote controls, etc.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
<"In 1999 I thought that 32 megs of RAM and a 20 gig hard drive was plenty and it was all I would ever need." Yep, things do have a way of growing. I started out with an IBM PC with 64 K of ram, 4.77 MHz processor, and I went all out and got the biggest disk that I could - 15 Megs. Definitely state of the art at the time. My first network was an AppleTalk which topped out at 230K bits/sec. The main problem, however, wasn't speed but reliability, which was minimal. We do seem to have come a ways on both fronts. And I still have all of the above stored away somewhere, although it is becoming increasingly doubtful that I will ever resurrect it some day.
I would also consider fiber optics.
Wonder if MegaPhones are still sold. I like wireless myself.
I would bet if you went to a sports supply and in particular the cheerleading section you could find one. Construction supply companies probably have them too.
Rather than run fiber, I would make it possible to run it later. There's no telling what new standards will make the current materials obsolete.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I agree.
Yeah, fiber is expensive and a PITA to deal with. Not a good choice now, maybe in another 5-10 years. And Cat5 and it's "children" won't disappear for decades, so there's no need to worry about obsolescence with copper.It doesn't hurt to plan for a later upgrade to fiber for the outside connection (especially since that just means you should install conduit from outside to your "closet"), but I wouldn't advocate mucking with fiber now.
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
Actually, 3M has crimp-on ends that don't require fusing. They aren't made for long distances but for point-to-point for a LAN, it's getting easier.With the price of copper, I'm betting that it's here now. Think of an application , like a PA snake where there might be 150 channels of audio from the desk to the stage, and back (just for the sake of comparison). If it's copper and each one needs to be terminated, you're looking at XLR ends, break out boxes, 150 lengths of cable that could pick up noise or be subject to ground loops. Now, think about one fiber run in multi-mode, a media convertor on each end and whatever short jumpers with terminations are needed. The bulk of the cost will be in connectors and terminations + media convertor but if it's copper, the main feed is the bulk of the cost. I don't think fiber is needed in a house now but I really think the cost will be coming down in a hurry because they will make it come sown.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Yeah, fiber makes a lot of sense if you have a commercial/industrial situation where dozens or perhaps hundreds of connections are needed. But it's still a long way from reasonable for any sort of home situation (short of BG's house).
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
Who is BG?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Mr M$.
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
DOH!I guess that makes my reply an onomatopoeia."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 12/28/2006 6:43 pm by highfigh
Never consider never using fiber in a home. o.k.
Why would you say that? A friend of mine who is an electrician told me that when he built his home he set it up for that just in case for later use. What he did I do not know.
Hi,
I service the stuff most of the builders install as far as wiring. Hardwire is the way to go. Wireless can be a problem contingent on size of home. Most distribution is from basement area and that has effect on wireless at times. It may reach certain portions in the home and not reach others leaving you without connectivity.
Built my custom home in 96. Father in law owns a commercial phone / sound systems co so............. EVERY ROOM IN THE HOUSE IS WIRED UP THE WAZOO!!!!!
I got cat 5 / coax / satellite and cable, phone jacks EVERYWHERE>>>>
I use about 4.
In the process of buiding a new home and since Father-in-law sold his business, I intend to run plastic conduit (large) all over and AFTER I move in I can easily run what I need, to wher I need without spending a fortune on useless cable / wiring / jacks / boxes...
I've not built a house, but I've retrofitted two of my own for various low voltage appliances. Here is my take: Don't spend money until you know EXACTLY what you need.
There is alot of flux in the whole consumer electronics arena right at the moment - 5 years from now will look very different I think. I think that a solid "N" networking standard will open up high bandwidth for multiple appliances - like TV and Sound as well as conventional data. You can fill up a 54mb "G" signal with a TV stream now, You can fit many more into an N signal - plus you still have other signals left to use. N will change the game once appliances start implementing it. But that is just my best guess.
If you are building now, throw in a ton of cheap ENT conduit - make it big to fit the coax if you want. Route it pretty to a central location. Don't even put a box in the wall at the ends, just leave it hang loose. If you need a phone, data, coax, stereo speaker, and doorbell line later on - go nuts! Lay the best darned line you can buy... because with the savings you have from NOT laying dark (unused) cable you will be able to use gold plated everything.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Lots of good recommendations by others. I'll just add that unless you are doing the wiring yourself, make damned sure the GC and electrician understand the concept of this kind of wiring. When my Dad got his house built a few years ago I told him to tell the GC to start at the corner of the basement and run two Cat5 cables from there to each telephone box in the house. Months later I go up to hook things up and find out that the electrician (who must have been doing wiring before I was born and didn't need some rookie telling him how to do his job) daisy chained the 2 cables from box to box. So much for moving that house into the modern era.
Steve.
I didn't real any of the responses. I will say that I pretty much did as you said (Phone, cat5-e and coax) and really don't use the stuff as much as I expected over the last 7 years.... With wireless phones and wireless routers who needs all that. Also, my "computing" is pretty much confined to my office room. The coax has come in handy though as, for example, my wife recently decided she wanted a TV in the kitchen... Glad I didn't spend 1000s on the stuff... I also pulled speaker wires (surround sound, etc) to where I knew I needed them and that has been fully adequate...
I also did some plastic conduit to the attic and crawl space, which has been mildly useful, but again not as much as I thought.
Mildly useful or not as useful as you thought but you still don't need to run it later. If you need more wiring than you ran, remember that audio and video can be sent using Cat 5e and the correct balun(s). You can even send component video over Cat5e.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Your first reply from Bryan Sayer was to the mark. The keystone faceplates are the way to go. However... the Individual fillers add up in a hurry. True that rg connectors (the cable TV connectors) are inexpensive at 3 bucks a piece in bulk but the Cat 5e' s are dear at 7 dollars a pop. Do some math at 4 per box, 3 per room, 10 rooms , plus the homerun box in the basement or utility room will begin to drive up the price in a hurry.
The worst part of it is that you do not want to wire up all possible TV porting. The Cable or Antenna signal gets reduced and the unpopulated wires hooked to the splitter will act as antenna. That is why there is a patch panel. Connections change over time.
I did the same and determined that I really don't need 22 locations for the connection of my PC. The wire is there but the faceplates are dummied with the minimal requirements. Blank fillers are only a quarter or so. Faceplates are cheap and can be replaced later. Unless you are blowing your nose with 20's I'd wire for the dream but populate the ends with only connectors where you need them.
Big shout out to labeling though. (The kids are home for the holiday and I have to try out the words on you.) What seems sensible when first pulled seems clueless when you have the walls all painted and finished. Go out and buy a printer like a Brady ID expert to label the wire ends. Thermal printing doesn't fade like a ballpoint or felt pen on taped paper. It'll cost you a bit for a good printer but the 300 dollars will keep your work from being a mystery. If you are a pro this will make more sense than if this is a one time effort. Further need for the printer is when you get to labeling the individual ports on the faceplate and the patch panels in the Data Com panel. If you think wrap around labels are hard to write clearly on...try writing on 3/8 inch square label.
Individual wires are the best bet. Feel free to buy the bundle but the singles are easier to pull and much less expensive. save the multi wire cable for5 the apartment buildings. Where time is money and the studs are metal that makes sense.
Fiber is a dream...while it is the best for a server it is a PITA to finish. a quality end is a polished end set in an epoxy shell. Wire is just as fast for a narrow band width. Fiberoptic is generally reserved for high EMF environments. Forgetabout it. Plus there are 2 main types with at least 6 terminations. Which will you lay in for the future?
Edited 1/2/2007 5:25 pm by booch
You do comm cabling for a living?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Nope I sell electrical controls to industry. Specifically Programmable controllers that provide the logic for automated machinery, and the variable frequency motors ...actually the drives for the motors.
The company I work for has an industrial division and a contractor division. My focus is of course the industrial side. Although I do work with quite a few generals as the spec's get thick.
I really strive to give the prudent approach as most of the people asking questions are here for their own amusement and enlightenment. If you are trying to squeeze out profit then you have to adlib from my suggestions.
Data com is a burgeoning field. You have to be careful as every one with a punch down tool is an authority. Plan ahead and keep your checkbook in your pocket until you figure out what you want to do. Industrials and big server farms use the rack systems. Offices use a collection of cabinets each less expensive depending on the environment. Resi people can get exceptional results with Square D, Leviton, etc brands. Just cause it is small doesn't mean it isn't fully functional. Beyond that a NEMA 1 flush mount cabinet can be used to make a good system too. It just becomes an Ala-Carte system.
All of this can be a beautiful setup but you have to believe in surge arrestors too. An acquaintenance with a Mc Mansion had a local lightening strike recently and you wouldn't believe the stuff he toasted. Not the least of which was his Plasma TV as well as 3 garage door opener circuits. You wouldn't believe the list.I think he made it to 6 grand in parts etc.5 k deductable on his insurance. This wasn't even a strike on his house it was in the neighborhood.
TVSS is really cheap. Before you get too deep into the home electrics spend a few bucks on the power side. In todays world it is cheap & good.
Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
I've been frequenting this forum a lot lately because I've just gutted the interior of a 1400 sq. ft. ranch house for a complete remodel. I truly appreciate all of the great feedback that you guys are willing to share with those of us who are eager to learn new skills. I've been a DIY'er most of my 49 years. I'm hoping some of you "communications" guys will be willing to mentor me a little in my remodeling project. This is a huge endeavor and I'm doing 90+ percent of the work myself.
The electrical in this house is getting a complete overhaul (panel, conduit, everything). I'd like to go ahead and install a structured wiring system while I'm at it. I plan to use Levition products and run cabling to every room whether it gets used or not. I'm talking voice, data, and A/V (but no fiberoptics). I'm also hoping to install a poor man's theater system in a den that I'm adding on to the back of the house. It'll basically consist of a plasma tv, maybe a bose lifestyle unit, and some extra attention to lighting and accoustics.
I haven't purchased any of the materials yet, so I'm very open to suggestions. I'm only considering Leviton because I bought their videos and found them to be a helpful resource.
I welcome any comments and advice that you structured wiring guys can provide.
Thanks,
Michael
Darlington, SC
You'l have to decide 3 things.
1st. Wired Ethernet (cat 5e is the most common and least expensive cabling method)
2nd. Phone lines. where they are going in each room. (might as well use cat 5 e again but you can get two phone lines per 5e cable)
3rd. Cable/ satelite connections.This one is artful. think like a sloth. where do you want to look at a TV. Kitchen, LR, BRs, (Bath if you think you might need TV withdrawl therapy.) etc. Consider though that you don't want the TV screen in the sun. (that will reduce your locations by 1/2.) You really don't want direct sunshine on the tv screen.
The single home event is perfectly sized for a box-o-wire. A 1000 foot increment of cat 5 e and RG6 cable are what you need. With that you get the best value per foot and you won't run out. Just pull and pull. Don't bend too sharply.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
I agree with booch on the type of cable. Cat5e will work for phone and network plus, video can be distributed over it if you need. Group the Cat5e and coax in the same box (I like to use a dbl gang with a single mud ring-less stress on the coax) and put that near a receptical. NO SHARP BENDS. Cat5e is good to 350MHz and almost nobody needs Base1000Tx in their house, certainly not for internet since that speed isn't going to happen for a while unless they change to fiber directly to the house instead of copper. If you're going to use a distribution panel, it'll need to be within about 10'' of the electrical service panel. Also, make sure the A/V electrical supply feeds are all on the same phase because you can have some really strange sound/picture issues. Now, for the personal preference part. I think using a Bose Lifestyle system will limit your choices and functionality of your system. Many receivers have more than enough inputs and outputs to serve the whole house but Bose basically tells you what you'll get. The others do all of the video and audio switching (Even up-converting non-HD sources to component video or HDMI) so you'll only need one cable to the plasma (if you actually decide that plasma is what you'll use). This simplifies operation tremendously unless you can find "the perfect remote control". In-wall speakers can be painted or papered over if the "I don't want big speakers in my living room" issue has come up. They have room EQ, are compatible with other IR controls (Bose are proprietary RF controlled) and you can have one remote for everything. There are many remotes out there and some claim that they will operate EVERYTHING. They may but some can be a PITA to use. Look for an activity based remote. This means that you press an activity button and everything else is taken care of (all power switching, all sources are set the way they need to be and the TV is set to the correct input. Also, get one that sends IR (Infra-red) and RF (Radio Frequency) so line-of-sight isn't a problem. RTi, Universal Remote Control's Home Theater Master MX series and Harmony are some of the best for this. Any remote that sells for $100 and claims to do it all, won't do it easily.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I think as a general rule one should be very wary of any sort of proprietary system that cannot be easily adapted to use non-proprietary parts and/or provide non-proprietary functions. Especially with any wiring you put into the walls, if it requires proprietary connection technology, run the other way.----- Pipe dreams followRe IR, I wish the industry would get together and standardize better than they have. In particular, every device should have a "reset" function that would put it in a known state. In many cases, you can't even reliably turn a unit on, since if it's already on it'll be turned off.I think they should also come up with a copper (or maybe fiber) "trunk" for the fiber, so you can feed the output of one unit into another, and only have one "aiming point". (Yeah, you can get the stick-on repeaters, but that's really tacky.) The trunk concept would also better enable other-room remote control.
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
"Especially with any wiring you put into the walls, if it requires proprietary connection technology, run the other way."Look for Lutron or Crestron cable- it's made for their systems but several companies make it to work their equipment. It's not a bad thing to have proprietary wiring if it's widely used. I was referring to the Bose FR remote with no IR provision at all. The "state" issue has been addressed by most companies using discreet commands for everything. The old stuff had one ON/OFF command that caused huge problems and a lot of TVs had a scrolling TV/Video button and a remote needed to be programmed to do the On_Video_Press_Press_Press thing to get to the correct input. This is one reason I hate systems that have all of the sources going to the TV and just the audio switching done by the receiver (and no, I don't want to get into a discussion with anyone over whether a receiver is as good as separates). The big problem with IR is that not all companies run theirs on the same frequency (56K vs 44K) and if the sensor is close enough to a plasma set, CF lights or sunlight, it won't work well, if at all. More and more remotes are coming out with RF and IR operation, with a receiver/base station located with the equipment and either individual flashers for each piece with some being assignable (the best way for IR), a wired link or a Blaster, which sends the commands to all of the pieces in the cabinet, which brings us back to the IR problems."(Yeah, you can get the stick-on repeaters, but that's really tacky.)"Yeah, that's how they stay on. har. They work and they're relatively cheap. Until a wired base connected to a jack on the piece is adopted universally, it's the way they'll make them.The new equipment all uses discreet commands and this has made a huge difference. The high-end equipment can be operated via RS-232 and some are available with an ethernet port and browser operability (Denon makes some of them). These are made to work together a lot better and to operate through whole-house controllers. Some of the mid-priced receivers have the RS-232 port and it's just a matter of time till they all have some kind of network interface.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Great feedback, guys. Thanks.
I hear a lot of warnings about proximity between structured devices and standard electrical wiring. What is the minimum distance that should separate the main service entrance and the structured wiring center? And what is the minimum distance I should maintain between regular electrical cabling/boxes and structured cabling/boxes? It seems like the EMF produced by standard wiring could disrupt a low voltage application if both are "joined at the hip" throughout an entire house.
As for the Bose system, I'm not entirely sold on it yet. Just considering it. What I really want is a built-in look. I want the tv built into a wall, flush mounted wall or ceiling speakers throughout, and all the added componentry as small or built-in as possible. I currently have a HUGE entertainment center with about a half dozen units placed in it (cd jukebox, satellite receiver, VCR, DVD, Stereo, etc.). I have to believe that there is a way to achieve a less bulky and much cleaner look using the latest digital technology. If you can turn me on to some helpful resources I'd sure appreciate it.
Michael
Most importantly, keep any "signal" wiring away from any sort of transformer or coil, such as a doorbell/lighting transformer, electric motor, or fluorescent ballast. At least a foot away, if at all possible (and more is better).Next, avoid parallel runs between signal wires and electric wiring. If they are run parallel for any distance, try again to maintain that one-foot separation. (Better to have then on opposite sides of the same stud cavity than on opposite sides of the same stud.)Resist the temptation to run signal wires through holes drilled for romex. And NEVER, EVER run signal wires and power lines in the same conduit -- both against code (major safety issue) and really stupid for noise reasons.Generally, it's not gonna kill you to have signal wires CROSS power wires at more or less right angles. But if you can maintain an inch or two or three separation when this happens that's good.Power lines in metal conduit are relatively "inert", from a noise standpoint.From a noise standpoint, it doesn't really make that much difference whether the power line you're concerned about is the main feed to the house or a regular branch circuit. The main is a little more likely to cause problems, but not that much more. (Though obviously HIGH VOLTAGE power lines are a different matter.)
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. --T.S. Eliot
"Resist the temptation to run signal wires through holes drilled for romex."This is against code and a good inspector will require this to be changed.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
If you want a built-in look, go to a high-end home theater dealer/integrator and see how they do it. Since you're doing a lot of the work yourself, copy it. Use what you like, change what you don't like. Keep DVD/CD players closer so you can change the discs but if it's a jukebox, you don't even need that to be tremendously close. Make a small closet into the equipment's home but either make it possible to slide it all out or have access to the rear and make sure it's well ventilated. If you don't need to get at it, you don't need to see it at all. There are some receivers that have on-screen display for the switching and control and a lot of the remotes have a screen that will show what source is being used, with assignable buttons for specific functions, like changing the audio source independent of the video switching, dimming lights, opening/closing drapes/shades, etc.I have the NEC specs for the high/low voltage proximity and will post it later. Remind me if I don't do it today. "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."Edited 1/3/2007 12:07 pm by highfigh
Edited 1/3/2007 12:08 pm by highfigh
I only asked because I was curious.Data comm is a huge field- residential is the one that's really growing and becoming more complex. With more companies making IP based whole house control systems, fiber becoming more viable at the consumer level (not quite yet, but it will be soon enough), People want home networks that are more complicated and higher speed than ever and I don't care how long someone has been on the business, they can't know everything about all of it. A communications or electrical engineer might but there aren't many of them working for home integrators. One area that is really lacking in consideration by dealers of home electronics is power requirements and wiring their low voltage devices to code (bonding, proximity to high voltage wiring, surge suppression, etc). I worked for an integrator that had a situation where someone asked why they didn't have an electrician on-staff. When they couldn't give a good answer, they hired one. Over a year later, they have the same number of low voltage installers but have hired more electricians and are planning to bring the number to eight. Their business has changed from being an integrator to dong electrical work AND low voltage/comm systems. I can't even think of any other dealers in town that have one electrical sub, let alone an electrician on-staff and I can't see why not if they do as much business as some are doing.If the cable companies keep installers who don't care enough to do it right the first time (the one here does), they'll have more people who come to a forum like this to ask questions about how to fix it. There are programs to train the people who installer/sell/Project manage, etc but not enough businesses are willing.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."