Need advice on wiring for under cabinet lights.
Am installing a custom kitchen island. Plan to have under cabinet lights, probably low voltage “puck” type. I want these to be hard wired and switched using a single pole switch mounted to the side of the base cabinet. I have run 14 guage wire from 15 amp circuit through side of cabinet to switch. The plan was to run wire from switch up through one of the columns that will be installed between the lower and upper cabinets. The columns are fairly small so snaking/hiding 14 guage wire up to the light source for wiring may be a problem.
I have done a lot of household wiring but never worked with low voltage lighting. I think I have only seen the type that plugs into an outlet and has some kind of in-line switch to control.
Any ideas on how to make this work? Either how to wire from switch to lights in upper cabinets using low voltage OR recommend alternative solution to under cabinet lighting.
Thanks in advance.
Replies
The sparkies out there can correct me if I say something wrong (I'm just a muddler, not an electrician).
Those low voltage pucks can be hard wired. But they probably won't have a ground wire, so you will want to make sure you get your polarity straight when you wire it. The last one I worked on (5-light, 10 watt/ea) had a fairly long cord on it. Depending on how far it is between your switch and the first puck, you might be able to reach the switch with the cord on the lights (looks like lamp cord). That is probably going to be smaller diameter than the 14ga wire you're using (and therefore easier to conceal).
Dending on the type of puck light you use, you're probably looking at 2-6' of cord, then the transformer, then 1-6' more cord before the first puck. Then 1-2' of cord between pucks.
I would NOT bury the transformer. Leave it some place you can get at it. Also if you have to splice 14 ga wire and LV cord, design it so that you can get at the splice. Don't bury the splice.
Flourescent is another option. IMO flourescent gives more light for the buck and lasts longer than halogen.... BUT on the flip side, halogen light tends to be 'warmer'. So its really personal preference.
Someone just sent me a sample of some new (I think by GE) undercabinet LED lights in a string arrangement. Tiny tiny but man are they bright and a nice white color to the spectrum. They run off a teenie transformer and have a small plastic clip that you could screw to the smallest of profiles easily I think...
I hard wire them using an oversize transformer with more amps than supplied by the manufacturer. I place the transformer in the basement, closet, attic, cabinet, etc which is hard wired with a switched duplex outlet. The wall switch controls that outlet.The wires from the transformer to the pucks are generally lite guage 12 volt cord, 14-16 guage. I rout them into the cabinets with dados on the topside of the cabinets. and down betwen them in dados between the two units, and across the underside using a similar dado covered with a piece of quarter inch ply for trim.I will emphasize this: The transformer supplied by most manufacturers is c r a p. Go to a lighting store and get something about 10-20% bigger than you need.Regards,
Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I knew there was a tranformer involved but lets see if I got this straight.
The transformer would be hard-wired to the switch (instead of the outlet in your description) - this means what ever wire comes with the transformer (better one than comes with lights, got it) even if it is not 14 guage can be spliced to the 14 guage power going to switch. Then, the cord from the first puck can be run down side of column, hidden, and plugged into transformer.
Does that sound right?
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"I have done a lot of household wiring but never worked with low voltage lighting. I think I have only seen the type that plugs into an outlet and has some kind of in-line switch to control."
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After rereading this in your original post I think you are looking at standard 110v lights...not low voltage. Ever dealt with low voltage exterior lights? Interior are basically the same.
No, I think I now understand that the low voltage do require a transformer in between the poser source and the lights. I guess I was thinking of a different kind.Thanks
You should be aware that a 12v DC system is subject to more significant voltage drop over a long run than 120v AC. You can wind up with some lights dimmer than others. Just plan accordingly.
"You should be aware that a 12v DC system "Unless he is operating off of a battery charged by solar panels or windmill it is no DC, but then again he would not have the transformer.It is 12v AC.But the comments about the voltage drop and dimming still apply.
Tell me more!
Can you still get the info off the sample?
I ummmm...can't even find the sample right now, but I'll ask the fella who sent them to me for the info...
Got this email from the fella who sent me the lights...
"GE has bought a company called Gelcore. It's distributing those lights through Walmart, I believe. What they're trying to do is market a simple and inexpensive under-cabinet (or other application) light.
Does that help?
Go to http://www.gelcore.com for more info."
They're very nice...
Seagull Lighting has a line of low voltage called ambiance¯
Very nice system and lots of options. Some transformers are dimmable.
Only draw back is it's very expensive. (at least I think it is)
Edit: don't go cheap on the transformer. You need good thermal protection because a short in low voltage will cause a fire without tripping a breaker. One of those cheap POS outside light transformers nearly burnt my house down.
Edited 11/16/2004 3:12 pm ET by GEOB21
I did just that
Take the advice here:
1) over size the transformer
2) leave access to the transformer - it will out some day
3) "lamp cord" to wire between transformer and lights
here's the extra idea that I did with mine and works great and adds a bit of oooohhhh, aaaahhh factor. Go buy a replacement lamp touch switch, wire it ahead of the transformer and run the "touch" lead to an exposed hinge/knob/metal thing and wahla instance dimmer and no unsightly switch.
Think I've got this figured out now - had a good discussion with my local electrical supply store folks and concluded the following:
Run Power to Transformer (oversized - this will be 14/2 from 15 amp circuit)
Locate Tranformer in basement to allow for access
Run wire from transformer to switch (I did go with a dimmer switch - your touch one sounds cool but I already have the hole for the box cut out of the side of cabinet so I'm going to use it) Guy at electrical supply warned me that if you want to use a dimmer you must have transformer BEFORE switch.
Wire now goes up through center of column, from switch, to be connected to the low voltage under-cabinet lights.
I don't think I will have a problem with other lights dimming - I have added up all of the current load on the circuit and it's well within the 15 amp rating even if all lights were on at once.
Thanks to all that responded - always fun and exciting to learn something new.
Hunh? Am I understanding that you've got 12 volts running into a dimmer? All the dimmers I've ever seen expect 120 volts.
"Guy at electrical supply warned me that if you want to use a dimmer you must have transformer BEFORE switch."That is not true.There are dimmers that are mistakingly called dimmers for low voltage ligthing, but more accurate they are Dimers for low voltage lighting SYSTEMS.They go on the line side. What is needed is one that is specified for either a magnetic transformer or a so called "electronic transformer" (actually a switching power supply).http://www.ylighting.com/magnetic-low-voltage-dimmers.htmlThey are basically the same as a standard incandenscend light dimmer, with some tweaking of the design.There might be some dimemrs desgined to go on the low voltage side, but I have not seen them.While a standard 120 unit *might* work on the LV side I doubt that it would work well. First off you have too much voltage drop even in the full on position that you would only get about 80-90% of full power.And the more important reason is that the RC time constants that determine the firing angle are figured charing from a 120 volt source not 12 volt.