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I am in the process of making a wooden floor for my new shop (converted garage). I want to put down screeds on the cement floor of the garage and then lay T&G plywood ontop of the screeds.
Any suggestions as to the best method of attaching the screeds to the cement? What type of fastners would you suggest?
Thanks
Patrick
Replies
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many ways to skin the cat..
. but you could rip PT 2x4 into 2x2.. and shoot them in with ramsets @ 16 inch OC.......
*Thanks Mike for the reply...Dumb question (I'm a rookie)--What is a ramset (same thing as a powder actuated fastner?)? Can you rent these at the rental center? Costly?Thanks again.Patrick
*patrick.....((ramset (same thing as a powder actuated fastner?)?... exactly...don't forget your safety glasses and earmuffs / earplugs..they're pretty cheap to buy...you MAY be able to rent .. don't know..we have a remington single shot (trigger type)..for 2x4 use a 2.5 inch .. get a couple different loads depending on the hardness of your concrete...
*In some states you need a firearms ID to get the charges.
*You're kiddin?
*Its been awhile since I looked at them, don't own one, but that's what I remember. Couldn't believe it myself. A NE state, just north of Mike Smith. (That's Mass.) Maybe someone has more up-to-date info.
*Once upon a time (HS) I worked on a small project with a contractor in PA, and he told me something similar - for the 'gun'. He said you could buy the loads anywhere, and you could buy the 'cheap' version (where you hit the back with a hammer) as well. He said to buy the trigger verion of the gun, you had to have a contractor's license. Hmmm, I wonder why Home Depot sells them without checking for that? Could it be...bunk?
*I'd do as Mike said, though you may not need or want the extra thickness of 2x4 or 2x2, and if the floor is flat enough, treated 1x material should be good...Consider gluing it down, then setting with ramsets. Should hold like crazy. If you are considering heating, radiant could be installed first, or in conjunction. Insulation might be nice too, obviously Mike's 2x sleepers would allow more insulation.Hopefully, you've got a vapor barrier under the slab.MD
*Mike (I'm asking because I have a shop about to go into construction too) - why rip the 2 x 4 sleepers? There will be less deflection in the plywood with wider sleepers and if shop equipment gets heavy that could be relevant. Also, if there is heavy fixed equipment he might want to ensure that sleepers frame the area under the machine base. Don't forget to shim the sleepers level (if an existing garage slab I'll bet it's not too level (code required slope). If it's an old slab you should assume no vapor barrier and put one on top of the slab (8 mil poly, not 6 mil).Also, Patrick - if you put down 1-1/2" fiberglas between the sleepers you'll cut down on the echo from the floor (a no-no if you have radiant heat, of course). Did you run duct for dust collection under the slab (if a new slab), or is it too late? Mine will be new.Jeff
*Could be. Then again, it could be regional information. Or just old info. I was surprised to find I had to show my liscence to buy a trigger actuated one but not the hammer-strike one. This was about 15 years ago, I'm sure they have gotten smarter about it by now. (Probably not too many drive-by nailings have happened in those ensuing years. LOL)
*don't need a license in RI.... i ripped the sleepers because i wanted to save matl.. AND frame 16 inch OC.. i assume 3/4 flooring and sometimes you overdrive if you use 1x treated matl.. which will lift the sleepers off the floor..i've also done this with a floating floor..just 3 layers of ply with bi-directions.. and mismatched joints....no sleepers...in that case you can level with mason's sand....an occasional ramset and stubby floor nails on the top layer
*Jeff,Too late for me to run duct--the garage slab floor was already in place when I purchased the the home.Thanks for the suggestion re: the fiberglass--I think I'll incorporate that into my design. I had alread planned on adding additional sleepers in those areas aroud heavy equiptment. I'm in the process of doing the floor, upgrading electrical, improving lighting, etc. etc. Got some questions for you:1. Are you using Sandor's book in designing your shop (if not, it might be a nice read--might be able to get it at the library)2. Can you rent a Ramset?Patrick
*I like split pins for fastening to concrete. They are a little more expensive, but they hold a lot better. I have always had trouble getting exactly the right penetration with powder actuated devices - half the time the head is sticking up, or the nail blows out the hole. They're okay for fastening to steel, but for concrete I like to rotohammer a hole and drive a split pin.And the reason Mike rips the sleepers is because he's from New England. (Hey! You guys know the only time a New Englander will let go of a nickel?) hehehehe
*Patrick, consider Tapcons for attaching sleepers - you may already have the needed tools.Big advantage, you can shim under the sleeper if you want to after laying them down - simply loosen and slide shim under, tighten. For insulation look at Tuff-R type insulated sheathing. Cut sheathing to width, attach first sleeper, place panel next to sleeper, attach next sleeper, etc, etc.
*I have an idea. If you have the headroom in your garage as I do in my attached garage, why not install rim joist and joists for floor framing instead of furring strips. You wouldn't have to level anything and you could run ductwork, ventilation or electrical beneath. You'll have stability and although full joists are more costly, the savings in labor may well be worth it.Just some thoughts,Pete Draganic
*1. Yes, I have Sandor's book. Thinking about many options. Just completed 16 CY concrete pour for garden shed today to take everything from garage (to make room for shop). Good day for it here.2. The insulation recommendation was primarily for sound (we use fiberglas for dance studio floating floors) so if sound is the primary issue (usually) you do not want to use foam board.3. I think you can rent a Ramset in our area but they aren't very expensive as noted. I like Jim's alternative method as I have seen a lot of spalled-up slab from powder-actuated fasteners. However, my slab will be new - this is probably less of a concern with green concrete. I don't see why Tapcons wouldn't work - just pricey. 4. I have mulled over the plywood floor and I'm still not sure. Wood, yes, but the rotary veneer of plywood tends to be less of a good wearing surface than more vertical grain material, maybe 1 x 6 VG D Fir? I've designed a theatre scene shop w/A-C as flooring and I guess it was OK, although it had to be FRTW. Used screws to attach to sleepers. If you use T & G (see archives for pros & cons) it will be real tough to pull up a damaged piece - weighed against the advantage of aligned (flush) edges.5. Pete - done what you suggest in a garage-to-living space conversion with a radically sloping floor (joists spanning sleepers of varying heights - much easier than tapered joists) but I don't have the room here. I'm not planning on forced air heating due to dust considerations.Jeff Clarke
*Another alternative to split pins is to drill a 1/4 " hole through the sleeper and into the concrete. Then drive 2 16d sinkers at the same time into hole. The nails wedge tight, plus with an extra hit, it will draw everything down tight. They make a regular masonry "nail" that works similarly (might be called a bent spike or a Rawl nail), but I use the double 16's on anything that just needs holding power without the cosmetics.Terry
*the old timers would drill a hole... shave a shingle splinter and drive it in.. and then nail into the shingle plug...they worked fine.. i had to demo a lot of 'em in remodeling old homes....
*I like the Tapcon idea if your slab is bumpy.If you don't mind doing a little hammering, some old-fashioned cut nails will hold those sleepers just fine. Low tech, but all you need is a hammer.
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I am in the process of making a wooden floor for my new shop (converted garage). I want to put down screeds on the cement floor of the garage and then lay T&G plywood ontop of the screeds.
Any suggestions as to the best method of attaching the screeds to the cement? What type of fastners would you suggest?
Thanks
Patrick